Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[amfootball]

I wonder if he is playing out the string and looking forward to retirement. His play has slipped and his contract is up and this rebuild can't be easy after going to the AFCCG every year of his career until last season.

I would think he retires unless he finds a contender to hook on with like the Chiefs or Ravens.

 

[borg]

Breer was on 98.5 this AM speaking with Fred the Junkie and offered some thoughts on locker room issues.
No specifics...
Basically inferring that business is not being conducted in typical Patriots style compared to last years.
Leadership in the locker room falls on the few aging vet stars who.... may not be as invested as before, may be getting tuned out by much younger players and the many FA mercenaries.
Lamented the lack of up and coming stars to take on leadership roles
I thought he would point fingers at coaching but he didn't.

 

[203Pat]

Breer was on 98.5 this AM speaking with Fred the Junkie and offered some thoughts on locker room issues.
No specifics...
Basically inferring that business is not being conducted in typical Patriots style compared to last years.
Leadership in the locker room falls on the few aging vet stars who.... may not be as invested as before, may be getting tuned out by much younger players and the many FA mercenaries.
Lamented the lack of up and coming stars to take on leadership roles
I thought he would point fingers at coaching but he didn't.

It's almost like there was a hierarchy in that locker room for a long time and once the head was removed the lower rungs have started to stray.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Breer was on 98.5 this AM speaking with Fred the Junkie and offered some thoughts on locker room issues.
No specifics...
Basically inferring that business is not being conducted in typical Patriots style compared to last years.
Leadership in the locker room falls on the few aging vet stars who.... may not be as invested as before, may be getting tuned out by much younger players and the many FA mercenaries.
Lamented the lack of up and coming stars to take on leadership roles
I thought he would point fingers at coaching but he didn't.

There’s that whole idea that winning begets winning, losing begets losing, etc. And when you have a team that’s objectively very average, I think it’s more apparent because your margins between winning and losing are often small.

“Lack of up and coming stars” has really been the issue in my mind. I did expect that two off-seasons/drafts after Brady’s departure, they’d have more to show than a few solid starters.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Breer was on 98.5 this AM speaking with Fred the Junkie and offered some thoughts on locker room issues.
No specifics...
Basically inferring that business is not being conducted in typical Patriots style compared to last years.
Leadership in the locker room falls on the few aging vet stars who.... may not be as invested as before, may be getting tuned out by much younger players and the many FA mercenaries.
Lamented the lack of up and coming stars to take on leadership roles
I thought he would point fingers at coaching but he didn't.

The “culture” always erodes when the team stops winning. And the younger players know the leaders they have left are on their way out and aren’t enough to carry the team - so they get tuned out.

 

[amfootball]

There’s that whole idea that winning begets winning, losing begets losing, etc. And when you have a team that’s objectively very average, I think it’s more apparent because your margins between winning and losing are often small.

“Lack of up and coming stars” has really been the issue in my mind. I did expect that two off-seasons/drafts after Brady’s departure, they’d have more to show than a few solid starters.

The other thing is most teams have the QB as the defacto leader. Obviously Mac is a rookie but he also does not strike me yet as a leader. Maybe he develops into one but guys like Watson, Murray, Dak got a hold of their teams right from the get go. Hopefully Mac has some of those intangibles in him.

 

[203Pat]

There’s that whole idea that winning begets winning, losing begets losing, etc. And when you have a team that’s objectively very average, I think it’s more apparent because your margins between winning and losing are often small.

“Lack of up and coming stars” has really been the issue in my mind. I did expect that two off-seasons/drafts after Brady’s departure, they’d have more to show than a few solid starters.

This is what I have been harping on lately. People keep saying this is a full rebuild but we still have a very old roster overall. Guys like Wynn, Sony, and Wise should be stepping into leadership roles as they are still young and were part of a super bowl team. Instead one is very often injured/unavailable to play and now playing poorly, the other played so poorly he was traded, and the last one is a JAG role player. The lack of young talent on this team is cause for concern and even the ones who have shown promise can't get any snaps over aging, over the hill, veterans.

 

[amfootball]

This is what I have been harping on lately. People keep saying this is a full rebuild but we still have a very old roster overall. Guys like Wynn, Sony, and Wise should be stepping into leadership roles as they are still young and were part of a super bowl team. Instead one is very often injured/unavailable to play and now playing poorly, the other played so poorly he was traded, and the last one is a JAG role player. The lack of young talent on this team is cause for concern and even the ones who have shown promise can't get any snaps over aging, over the hill, veterans.

It is a cluster**** IMO because it was not a true rebuild. Spending in FA the way we did to try to jump start the team was the wrong approach. We needed to spend money for sure to take a bottom third roster and make it competitive but we way over spent on average talent some of which is performing poorly (Agahlor, Smith, Mills). And then on top we have the aging vets. Bill totally blew compensation with Gilmore because he did not trade him last year and then hung on to him too long and got a 6th back. There is no way back to relevancy IMO other than through the draft like what the Cowboys have done. I really hope we take that approach this off-season and start a true rebuild predicated on young talent.

 

[captain stone]

“Lack of up and coming stars” has really been the issue in my mind. I did expect that two off-seasons/drafts after Brady’s departure, they’d have more to show than a few solid starters.

I don't think they even have that many.

 

[203Pat]

It is a cluster**** IMO because it was not a true rebuild. Spending in FA the way we did to try to jump start the team was the wrong approach. We needed to spend money for sure to take a bottom third roster and make it competitive but we way over spent on average talent some of which is performing poorly (Agahlor, Smith, Mills). And then on top we have the aging vets. Bill totally blew compensation with Gilmore because he did not trade him last year and then hung on to him too long and got a 6th back. There is no way back to relevancy IMO other than through the draft like what the Cowboys have done. I really hope we take that approach this off-season and start a true rebuild predicated on young talent.

To be honest I don't know what Bill should have done in the offseason. The 2020 team was probably the most talent poor team in the league last year and had multiple starters that are just not NFL players. He had to pay to upgrade the roster since he bungled so many draft picks. We didn't have NFL caliber receivers or tight ends last year and our front seven on defense was almost equally as bad. I didn't love each of the players he signed but he needed to upgrade the roster and the only way to do that was to pay up.

As for Gilmore I agree completely. He held onto a depreciating asset on a bad team and it cost us the difference of at least 3 rounds in trade compensation. I keep repeating this but it kills me that we lost Brady, Thuney, and Gilmore since last year and we came away with a 6th round pick. Bill has badly managed the roster the last few years with bad draft picks, bad trades, bad free agent signings, and letting the wrong guys walk and it is catching up to him quickly.

 

[amfootball]

To be honest I don't know what Bill should have done in the offseason. The 2020 team was probably the most talent poor team in the league last year and had multiple starters that are just not NFL players. He had to pay to upgrade the roster since he bungled so many draft picks. We didn't have NFL caliber receivers or tight ends last year and our front seven on defense was almost equally as bad. I didn't love each of the players he signed but he needed to upgrade the roster and the only way to do that was to pay up.

As for Gilmore I agree completely. He held onto a depreciating asset on a bad team and it cost us the difference of at least 3 rounds in trade compensation. I keep repeating this but it kills me that we lost Brady, Thuney, and Gilmore since last year and we came away with a 6th round pick. Bill has badly managed the roster the last few years with bad draft picks, bad trades, bad free agent signings, and letting the wrong guys walk and it is catching up to him quickly.

I think it was more than just a one year reset to be honest. We didn't have to spend the money just because we had it. Things could have been done more strategically with the money and with trading away the vets for draft compensation. It felt like we panicked to get back to relevancy as soon as possible and it has back fired. Luckily it feels like we got the QB right so that is most important but the rest of team is just a mess IMO.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It is a cluster**** IMO because it was not a true rebuild. Spending in FA the way we did to try to jump start the team was the wrong approach. We needed to spend money for sure to take a bottom third roster and make it competitive but we way over spent on average talent some of which is performing poorly (Agahlor, Smith, Mills). And then on top we have the aging vets. Bill totally blew compensation with Gilmore because he did not trade him last year and then hung on to him too long and got a 6th back. There is no way back to relevancy IMO other than through the draft like what the Cowboys have done. I really hope we take that approach this off-season and start a true rebuild predicated on young talent.

He had to pay to upgrade the roster since he bungled so many draft picks.

As 203Pat said, Bill had to spend because he can’t draft. Judon was the only bargain while the TE’s were desperate signings getting way overpaid. The Mills money should’ve been spent towards Gilmore for this last year on his deal.

This years draft looks a lot better than prior years with the first 3 picks could be pretty good starters.

 

[captain stone]

...It felt like we panicked to get back to relevancy as soon as possible and it has back fired. Luckily it feels like we got the QB right so that is most important but the rest of team is just a mess IMO.

Yep, another instance of Bill placing personal gratification ahead of the T-E-A-M.

 

[TheRainMaker]

It felt like we panicked to get back to relevancy as soon as possible and it has back fired.

Again, based on Bill’s prior drafts between 2013-2020, what makes you so confident he’d be able to draft guys to get back to relevancy?

 

[amfootball]

Again, based on Bill’s prior drafts between 2013-2020, what makes you so confident he’d be able to draft guys to get back to relevancy?

My hope is our other personnel guys that Kraft brought in this season would handle it like they did this year.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

The other thing is most teams have the QB as the defacto leader. Obviously Mac is a rookie but he also does not strike me yet as a leader. Maybe he develops into one but guys like Watson, Murray, Dak got a hold of their teams right from the get go. Hopefully Mac has some of those intangibles in him.

Mac seems VERY low energy in his press conferences. I don't know if that's a problem, but his energy is something that might be concerning in the future, after his deep ball arm.

Hopefully it isn't, but it's something that hasn't been brought up before. Leadership is HUGE for a QB, especially if you don't have any defensive leaders (like with Ray Lewis vs Joe flacco, for instance)

 

[venecol]

I like McVay a lot as well. I think he is a bright, young coach, but we all saw how he got out coached in the Super Bowl(he even admitted it) by Bill.

He looks so cute.

 

[venecol]

This is what I have been harping on lately. People keep saying this is a full rebuild but we still have a very old roster overall. Guys like Wynn, Sony, and Wise should be stepping into leadership roles as they are still young and were part of a super bowl team. Instead one is very often injured/unavailable to play and now playing poorly, the other played so poorly he was traded, and the last one is a JAG role player. The lack of young talent on this team is cause for concern and even the ones who have shown promise can't get any snaps over aging, over the hill, veterans.

It is a cluster**** IMO because it was not a true rebuild. Spending in FA the way we did to try to jump start the team was the wrong approach. We needed to spend money for sure to take a bottom third roster and make it competitive but we way over spent on average talent some of which is performing poorly (Agahlor, Smith, Mills). And then on top we have the aging vets. Bill totally blew compensation with Gilmore because he did not trade him last year and then hung on to him too long and got a 6th back. There is no way back to relevancy IMO other than through the draft like what the Cowboys have done. I really hope we take that approach this off-season and start a true rebuild predicated on young talent.

After reading you two, I'm ready to slice my wrists. Lighten up guys.

 

[FCB02062]

Breer was on 98.5 this AM speaking with Fred the Junkie and offered some thoughts on locker room issues.
No specifics...
Basically inferring that business is not being conducted in typical Patriots style compared to last years.
Leadership in the locker room falls on the few aging vet stars who.... may not be as invested as before, may be getting tuned out by much younger players and the many FA mercenaries.
Lamented the lack of up and coming stars to take on leadership roles
I thought he would point fingers at coaching but he didn't.

sounds legitimate - often times this team seems like a rudderless ship. the coach seems often disinterested, nonchalant, unengaged during games. constant wasting of timeouts, questionable challenge/no challenge decisions, and more "dumb" penalties than we're used to seeing as Pats fans. This team is wholly uncharacteristic of just about every Bellichick Pats team. I said in an earlier game thread, and I think I might've gotten banned for it, that "this team looks like the 99 Pete Carrol Pats (second half) that went 2-6 down the stretch.
Who are the leaders on this team? Team leaders are good veteran players who are playing well. No one on this team, other than Perhaps Judon (when he's not blowing contain or run coverage), fits that description. Hightower? No, looks slower than Ted Washington after a day at the Old Country Buffet.....McCourty? No, more missed tackles than Jordan Richards. It's definitely not coming from the Coach. Do we seriously think the players aren't like "what the f$ck is this idiot doing coaching us on defense?" In any other place Belichick would be ripped from pillar to post because his kid is coaching the defense.
Coach Bill has Bill the Gm to blame largely if his "legacy" is being called into question. This year the draft picks entering their 3d and 4th years should be big time contributors and leaders on this team....let's take an inventory (players still with the team)....
2018 - Wynn and Bentley (FAIL)
2019 - Harry, JoeJuan Bag of Suck, Winovich, Cajuste, Harris, Bailey
These drafts are abject failures. When your most productive draftee is a freaking punter, you've sabotaged your own legacy. Of those players, only Harris - who can't stay on the field and fumbles too much has any future...

 

[RobertWeathers]

Maybe but Gilly on his worse day >>>>> Mills, SloJuan, JJones, and the rest of the CBs (incl. JC). You can't replace natural instincts and experience.

Not for the $ he reportedly wanted...No thank you.