Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[BTTA]

Belichick still has time to turn this team around. A two year rebuild process is nothing strange in the NFL. Many teams take decades to rebound from losing a HOF QB. The Bills just found their Jim Kelly replacement and the Dolphins are still looking for their Marino replacement.

If this team is a contender next year or even the year after that, people will forget the Cam Newton year and this year (although there is still time this year to turn it around).

Yeah, the only significant difference between this and other rebuilds he's done is at QB. With Brady, you can still go 11-5, and lose in the playoffs. With a rookie, that's a much more difficult push.

To me the biggest disappointment isn't the new guys brought in, but the drop off in the older guys. That's correctable in the draft going forward (which they've been doing well with lately), but delays the rebound by a year or two.

 

[203Pat]

I know some people think Bill has another 5 years to turn it around but how many losing seasons in a row do people really think the Kraft's will tolerate before they ask him to "retire"?

Let's be honest. This defense will essentially be completely rebuilt within the next year or so. Basically a whole new LB group and we still don't know if Winovich and Uche can actually play since they don't get many snaps. Barmore looks like he could be a good player on the D-line but outside of him it is role players and aging veterans. The secondary is going to need to be almost completely rebuilt. I really don't think we will pay up for JC Jackson and McCourty should hopefully be in his last year. Joejuan Williams is no where near a starter so that leaves Mills who is average at best as your number 1 with Jones in the slot. Dugger cant cover so the only player I really feel good about is Phillips outside of Jones in the secondary.

This team doesn't have a lot of guys to build around for the next few years outside of Mac so unless Mac takes a drastic step forward next year I don’t think we are a playoff team next year either which would put Bill at 3 years without making the playoffs. If that were the case do the Krafts realistically want to give a 71 year old head coach another season?

 

[venecol]

Is it a coincidence that the 4 most conservative teams on going for it on 4th down have the 4 oldest coaches (Zimmer, Carroll, Arians, Belichick)?

 

[captain stone]

This thread proves it: We remain the luckiest and most obnoxiously ungrateful fan base in all of sports.

And Brady was a game manager for those first three Super Bowls.

Care to make it 3 idiot posts out of 3? C'mon, I just know you have it in you...

 

[sb1]

And Brady was a game manager for those first three Super Bowls.

Not really and even if he was - 3-0 speaks for itself.

Pats win 0 rings and probably 0 playoff games in that same time period without him.

 

[amfootball]

I know some people think Bill has another 5 years to turn it around but how many losing seasons in a row do people really think the Kraft's will tolerate before they ask him to "retire"?

Let's be honest. This defense will essentially be completely rebuilt within the next year or so. Basically a whole new LB group and we still don't know if Winovich and Uche can actually play since they don't get many snaps. Barmore looks like he could be a good player on the D-line but outside of him it is role players and aging veterans. The secondary is going to need to be almost completely rebuilt. I really don't think we will pay up for JC Jackson and McCourty should hopefully be in his last year. Joejuan Williams is no where near a starter so that leaves Mills who is average at best as your number 1 with Jones in the slot. Dugger cant cover so the only player I really feel good about is Phillips outside of Jones in the secondary.

This team doesn't have a lot of guys to build around for the next few years outside of Mac so unless Mac takes a drastic step forward next year I don’t think we are a playoff team next year either which would put Bill at 3 years without making the playoffs. If that were the case do the Krafts realistically want to give a 71 year old head coach another season?

Really good points. Kraft already brought in personnel guys this off-season. I really don't see Bill as being the main person to rebuild this team. I think Kraft will let appear it is Bill by calling it a collaboration like he did this year but we all know that FA and the draft were not primarily run by Bill.

I think the bigger question is how much does Bill have left as a coach? It is clear this year that he is letting his assistants run the show and that has led to some awful coaching that has cost us winning some of these one possession games. I still think he is a solid coach and would not want someone different but if he is just going to delegate to the assistants who I feel are not qualified other than maybe Josh then what's the point of having him as HC?

Tough questions I think for Kraft to answer right now. I don't envy him.

 

[Pats1971]

Is it a coincidence that the 4 most conservative teams on going for it on 4th down have the 4 oldest coaches (Zimmer, Carroll, Arians, Belichick)?

View attachment 36770

It is weird, Maybe Tampa does not have to go for it as much.

 

[Ivan]

I would love to see them not have jets-like bone headed plays. Blocked punts, too many men on the field, not enough men on the field and playing not to lose. If the teams has those mistakes again this week and lose to the jets. I'll be disappointed. If they get rid of those mistakes and still lose, I won't be happy but I won't be disappointed. In some ways, I believe the team has recessed from last season with overall better QB play. yes, the buck stops at the top. That's why Bill gets the big bucks.

I don’t think anyone wants to see dumb mistakes, but the overall process is to learn from them, fix them, and play at higher levels as the season moves in. As far as blocked punts and problems like that coaches watch film to exploit a weakness or hole, and things like that will happen, the key is fixing it and not repeating mistakes.

 

[Pats1971]

Yeah, the only significant difference between this and other rebuilds he's done is at QB. With Brady, you can still go 11-5, and lose in the playoffs. With a rookie, that's a much more difficult push.

To me the biggest disappointment isn't the new guys brought in, but the drop off in the older guys. That's correctable in the draft going forward (which they've been doing well with lately), but delays the rebound by a year or two.

This is the point I have tried to make about 50 times. lol. Rebuilding the last 20 years, is going to be different now. The days of only have the crappy 11-5 season where we dont win the superbowl every other year are gone for now.

 

[Ivan]

Really good points. Kraft already brought in personnel guys this off-season. I really don't see Bill as being the main person to rebuild this team. I think Kraft will let appear it is Bill by calling it a collaboration like he did this year but we all know that FA and the draft were not primarily run by Bill.

I think the bigger question is how much does Bill have left as a coach? It is clear this year that he is letting his assistants run the show and that has led to some awful coaching that has cost us winning some of these one possession games. I still think he is a solid coach and would not want someone different but if he is just going to delegate to the assistants who I feel are not qualified other than maybe Josh then what's the point of having him as HC?

Tough questions I think for Kraft to answer right now. I don't envy him.

Belichick brought in personnel, not Kraft, Belichick runs all football operations, period. The day Kraft tries to take control over football operations is the day Belichick walks. The “Belichick is still a solid coach” stuff is complete and utter garbage. If Kraft breaks his deal with Belichick there will be 25 teams salivating to hire him. Belichick is the best coach in football, period. Some of the sh.t people like you are talking is total garbage, stick to fantasy football.

 

[Ivan]

Talking about football is not trolling. If this board bans people for talking about football, then not many are going to want to be here. You need to learn what a troll is first, if not, then reply to what I said if you have a different opinion and show that its wrong.

We know exactly what the trolls are, it’s the people who only post to try and piss people up and stir negative sh.t up constantly, and so far you have fit that perfectly. We have been here for years, you’re a newbie at best, and a really negative sack of sh.t. Go root for a team that never loses if you can’t take some rebuilding after the greatest run of success in NFL history.

I have absolutely no doubt that when KC blew out the Patriots in 2014 you and the rest of the “ get rid of Belichick” clowns were calling for Kraft to fire Belichick and get rid of Brady. You are all just a bunch of front runners who know jack sh.t about football, and you can only root for whomever is winning the most.

 

[archstanton543]

Belichick brought in personnel, not Kraft, Belichick runs all football operations, period. The day Kraft tries to take control over football operations is the day Belichick walks. The “Belichick is still a solid coach” stuff is complete and utter garbage. If Kraft breaks his deal with Belichick there will be 25 teams salivating to hire him. Belichick is the best coach in football, period. Some of the sh.t people like you are talking is total garbage, stick to fantasy football.

Perhaps. A lot of teams are looking for younger guys to come in an innovate. A lot of teams aren't going to want to hire a guy pushing 70. Sure, there would be a team or two interested but I don't think a lot of teams are going to be knocking on his door if the scenario you presented takes place.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Is it a coincidence that the 4 most conservative teams on going for it on 4th down have the 4 oldest coaches (Zimmer, Carroll, Arians, Belichick)?

View attachment 36770

Good catch - didn’t think of that.

 

[Ivan]

It one of the “ get rid of Belichick” clowns can name the coach and GM to replace him with. You are all just sh.t talkers.

 

[Ivan]

Perhaps. A lot of teams are looking for younger guys to come in an innovate. A lot of teams aren't going to want to hire a guy pushing 70. Sure, there would be a team or two interested but I don't think a lot of teams are going to be knocking on his door if the scenario you presented takes place.

I don’t think 70 is the same barrier it was 10-20 years ago, Belichick won 3 Lombardi’s in his 60’s, so I believe he would be in high demand.

 

[archstanton543]

I don’t think 70 is the same barrier it was 10-20 years ago, Belichick won 3 Lombardi’s in his 60’s, so I believe he would be in high demand.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Ian]

You are all just a bunch of front runners who know jack sh.t about football,

You are all just sh.t talkers.

OK, let's settle things down. Again, I'm OK with people criticizing Belichick if they at least are constructive and offer up discussion points. It's the "Bill sucks", etc. that drives me crazy, so as long as we stay away from that - and as long as people are ready for the backlash - I can handle it.

 

[Bruins29]

"lower your expectations"


right?

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

OK, let's settle things down. Again, I'm OK with people criticizing Belichick if they at least are constructive and offer up discussion points. It's the "Bill sucks", etc. that drives me crazy, so as long as we stay away from that - and as long as people are ready for the backlash - I can handle it.

I don't think Bill sucks, but there were people years ago who thought Bill could win with any player.

It doesnt seem like he can. We are 2-4 and coming off a losing season.

Bill is a great coach but I have wondered if like Landry, its his time. We'll see.

 

[Ian]

"lower your expectations"


right?

I wouldn't say lower your expectations, but I would tell people to try and at least understand that we're in a different period which is sometimes necessary. Without the 2000 season, 2001 doesn't happen, etc. Just like without last year's 7-9 season, Mac doesn't end up here. And we're only six games in. Who knows how the next 11 play out and hopefully this upward trajectory will at least start translating into some wins down the stretch.