Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[Pats1971]

I wouldn't say they look any worse than they did in 2018, when they got smashed by the likes of Jacksonville and Detroit early on, and ended up winning #6.

They've got a rookie QB who's learning on the fly, and looks good. They have a defence that needs to gel.

This thread proves it: We remain the luckiest and most obnoxiously ungrateful fan base in all of sports.

The defense....like this one has won superbowls....the offense however cannot average 20 ppg and win.

 

[Pats1971]

Without Brady, BB has had:

Kosar
Philcox
Tomczak
Testaverde
Rypien
Zeier
Bledsoe
Cassell
Garopollo
Brisset
Newton

Let's see how he does with Jones.

3 of those QB's went to superhowls with a different coach.

 

[Pats1971]

I suppose Jules is a negative troll:

"The Patriots just aren't the Patriots right now, and it hurts me to say this," Edelman said. "They are not the Patriots. We are so used to seeing the last 20 years -- I know there's different players and this, that, but there's still a group of guys in there that know how they should play. They need to start playing mistake-free football."

How about Ty Law? Another troll?

“I’m really upset about what’s going on,” Law said. “Because you don’t let people come in there and walk all over you, throw the ball like that anytime they want to. I mean, that’s shameful.”

“You have to have somebody that can cover,” Law said. “I mean, we were looking for Jackson to step up. He was playing pretty good football. But I didn’t want to pass him the mantle just yet when we’re talking about him compared to Stephon Gilmore. But you have to have guys in the back that can step up and make plays.”

What do these ex-Patriots know. Right?

I can throw in the Trolls Bruschi and Harrison too, but I think he gets the point.

 

[Pats1971]

Gary Kubiak/Peyton Manning


Peyton wasn't even average by the time of that SB win.

Manning was flat out bad when they won the superbowl.

 

[Pats1971]

Apparently turning troll posters into banned posters is no longer here.

Talking about football is not trolling. If this board bans people for talking about football, then not many are going to want to be here. You need to learn what a troll is first, if not, then reply to what I said if you have a different opinion and show that its wrong.

 

[Pats1971]

This. And before names like Trent Dilfer and others get thrown out there, name a coach who won without a great QB and then managed to keep winning without a great QB.

Well lets see if Bill can make the playoffs first before we start talking superbowl.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

And Brady was a game manager for those first three Super Bowls.

By 2003 he was already becoming one of the best qbs in the league.

 

[Pats1971]

By 2003 he was already becoming one of the best qbs in the league.

He lead the league in TD's in 2002.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

He lead the league in TD's in 2002.

Was referring to the 2nd/3rd Super Bowls since the poster stated he was a game manager for the first 3.

 

[Pats1971]

Was referring to the 2nd/3rd Super Bowls since the poster stated he was a game manager for the first 3.

Right, I am just saying in that time frame he lead the league in TD's. Game manager is basically a term that people use when they want to diminish a QB but can't becuase of what they do. Its like saying a win was lucky. It cannot be proven or disproven so its used to argue something without being proven incorrect.

 

[PScottman]

They're not going anywhere. Sports media has been a thing since gladiators were fighting in the Collesuem.

Yeah, but watching them have to try and get quotes from the lions in the after-match "locker room" was way more entertaining.

 

[PScottman]

There isn’t a single coach in the league today that I would replace him with.

For those yutes round here...the Patriots had the "new coach and staff every approx. 2.5 years" era and it sucked WAY worse than this. There is a massive difference between being a competitive NFL team and one as a fan you knew in every game they were either going to lose or REALLY lose.

 

[RodThePat]

He literally won two superbowl mvp's. lol Anyone who came away from the Carolina superbowl saying...game manager, needs to pick another sport to watch.

Early dynasty Brady was kind of a "pitch to the score" QB. When the defense was on he wasn't necessarily out there piling up the stats to win 38-9, but when they needed offense to pull a game out, he delivered 90% of the time, the Carolina SB being a perfect example. Your vaunted defense is getting absolutely torched and we can't get a good snap to kick a FG to save our lives, go out there and throw for almost 400 yards and pull this one off for us, Tom. And he did.

Then by 2004 he was inarguably a top 3 QB in football by any measure and could beat you in any way, any game.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Curran is absolutely sports media... Is your problem with him that he writes things critical of Bill?

Ben Trollin' is a different matter entirely.





Excellent question.

tom curran on twitter is no different then Volin......the problem is, there's multiple tom currans these days.....he's jumped on board the trash train, even if he has a foot in both camps

 

[farn]

Jump aboard the Hate ship. It's really irrelevant. Anyone in the know doesn't need for BB to "prove himself" further and he's widely accepted as #1.

 

[amfootball]

You're confusing accomplishments with legacy. They are not the same thing. Generally, the former is just part of the latter.


For example, part of Shula's legacy is that he's the head coach who couldn't win a Super Bowl with Dan Marino in his prime.

I was about to say the same thing. What Bill is fighting for right now is the narrative around his coaching career not his accomplishments. The narrative flipped once Brady won in Tampa and we went 7-9 and now this season with Tampa making a push to repeat while we are struggling to win with a rookie QB.

The longer this goes on, the more articles we will see like this one questioning the mystique of Bill. I have long said this but both Kraft and Bill had no issue standing front and center and taking ALL the credit from SB win #1 on. Never has any narrative around any dynastic team centered more around its coaching, culture and system than the Patriots. I am not just talking about Brady but also all of the great defensive players we had too especially for those first 3 SB wins. That is one of the reasons IMO that so many of them are having a tough time getting into the Hall because they are seen as a cog in Bill's system.

It is this narrative that is being questioned and rightfully so IMO. I have always been a person that believes players win games in any team sport. Coaching certainly matters but not to the insane degree it was emphasized in NE. All of that is what is coming down and not just because of Brady's success as he was never the determining factor in Bill's ultimate fate but it was always about how did Bill do post Brady. It's not just our record that is the issue but the way the team has looked the last 2+ seasons. It has quite frankly been a mess as we are no longer a team that can win one possession games and we lack dynamic playmakers on both sides of the ball. Our assistants appear to be woefully unqualified. This is really what Bill is fighting against IMO. He has to get this righted soon because if it continues, these types of articles will be part of his permanent story, fair or unfair.

 

[JayNM]

 

[venecol]

Lazar. Haha. Another hateful media troll. What does he know. How dare he question Bill. He's our God.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I personally don't care about making the playoffs. I just want to see Mac grow. He's doing great. That's all I care about. You can't build a house without a foundation and we have that.

I would love to see them make the playoffs but it’s more important to me to see them scratch and claw and play their asses off to try and get there every week. Despite starting a rookie QB I thought they had a decent shot at getting a WC, but that with the expectation that their OL and defense would play much better than they have to date. I think like you this season is really about finding out who the winners and fighters are on this team so they can build for the long term. This isn’t about one season, it’s about the next 10 years, and laying the groundwork for teams that will be serious contenders every year, that’s how you win Lombardi’s, not by chasing each season and blowing the long term.

 

[h0c2000]

I would love to see them make the playoffs but it’s more important to me to see them scratch and claw and play their asses off to try and get there every week. Despite starting a rookie QB I thought they had a decent shot at getting a WC, but that with the expectation that their OL and defense would play much better than they have to date. I think like you this season is really about finding out who the winners and fighters are on this team so they can build for the long term. This isn’t about one season, it’s about the next 10 years, and laying the groundwork for teams that will be serious contenders every year, that’s how you win Lombardi’s, not by chasing each season and blowing the long term.

I would love to see them not have jets-like bone headed plays. Blocked punts, too many men on the field, not enough men on the field and playing not to lose. If the teams has those mistakes again this week and lose to the jets. I'll be disappointed. If they get rid of those mistakes and still lose, I won't be happy but I won't be disappointed. In some ways, I believe the team has recessed from last season with overall better QB play. yes, the buck stops at the top. That's why Bill gets the big bucks.