Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[VectorPrime]

It is weird how the “one play away from a win” group has argued for years that Malcom Butler wouldn’t have made a difference because the difference between winning and losing doesn’t come down to one player making a few plays that the other guy didn’t.

At this point they’d probably say that they think that Bledsoe would have won if the team started him in Super Bowl 36.

 

[Ring 6]

The media is completely in their right to ask why he didn't go for it on 4th & 3; why the kneel downs at the half; why abandon heavy personnel that was working.

His answers left a lot more questions than answers. They were quite baffling.

He explained why he didn’t go for 4th and 3 from his own 46. The exact same answer that 95% of coaching decisions in the history of the NFL have followed.
He has a lead and a rookie QB. Why risk disaster? He didn’t know the final score at that time.
They ran 17 plays out of the 54 plays they had out of 2 TE, FB, RB, Harry.
How many do you want to run out of THAT?

 

[Bruins29]

At this point they’d probably say that they think that Bledsoe would have won if the team started him in Super Bowl 36.

No because what I just learned the other day is that he wasn’t even as good as rich Gannon or Joe Kapp

 

[FCB02062]

Coach Bill's legacy is going to be impacted by the fact that Miami, Buffalo, Denver ALL made the playoffs within 1 year AFTER their franchise quarterback (Marino, Kelly, Elway respectively) left the team. Miami with Wannstedt/Fiedler, Buffalo with Wade Phillips/Flutie, and Denver with Shanahan/Brian Griese. All those coaches got their teams back in the playoffs soon after their superstar qb split. Belichick looks like he's FAR AWAY from the playoffs.
The more and more you delve into the history of Coach Bill, the greatest coach in the history of the game, sans Tom Brady, you will find that perhaps he does not deserve such a label...

 

[Deus Irae]

I should also add that I found the Yahoo! article to be unfair and misleading in trying to isolate Belichick the way it did.

 

[Ring 6]

Coach Bill's legacy is going to be impacted by the fact that Miami, Buffalo, Denver ALL made the playoffs within 1 year AFTER their franchise quarterback (Marino, Kelly, Elway respectively) left the team. Miami with Wannstedt/Fiedler, Buffalo with Wade Phillips/Flutie, and Denver with Shanahan/Brian Griese. All those coaches got their teams back in the playoffs soon after their superstar qb split. Belichick looks like he's FAR AWAY from the playoffs.
The more and more you delve into the history of Coach Bill, the greatest coach in the history of the game, sans Tom Brady, you will find that perhaps he does not deserve such a label...

No it isn’t.
He has won more, by a good margin than anyone ever.
He does not have to accomplish a single additional thing to be the goat.

 

[Ring 6]

It is weird how the “one play away from a win” group has argued for years that Malcom Butler wouldn’t have made a difference because the difference between winning and losing doesn’t come down to one player making a few plays that the other guy didn’t.

It is weird how the people saying Butler would have made a difference because he could have made one play are the group claiming one play isn’t the difference between winning and losing.

 

[lancerman]

Almost everyone on this forum even acknowledged week 1 against Miami was on the coaches. Bad situational football, mental mistakes, penalties. Lost to an inferior team despite easily winning the yardage battle.

They got hammered in week 3 against the Saints. Out-schemed, outsmarted, just beaten down. They were favored by 3 and lost by 15.

They nearly got beaten by a bottom feeder Texans team. They showed up clearly not in the right mindset and got into a big deficit against maybe the worst team in football.

I’m not saying the coaching is bad. I’m saying, as always, it’s much more neutral than an advantage. The team has played worse than they’re capable of playing roughly half the time and better half the time. I guess it’s impressive they went toe to toe with two good teams, but an average NFL team should be competitive against a great team when playing at home. A close loss is the normal expectation.

Also you could argue that we lost the the Tampa game due to a penalty which pushed them out of field goal range and later forced their hand and then were way too conservative at the end vs Dallas and gave them the chance to beat us. Both games Bill decided to take the game out of Mac’s hands in crucial moments and settle.

 

[lancerman]

Dont disagree with those questions and are pretty valid. But if there was some issue with protection or not trusting josh or jones or oline he is never going to say it publicly. its his way of not singling out any player or coach. Yes he gets beat down for responding to the question but he takes it.

The issue is that Bill’s deflections can be played off as humorous when he’s winning. When he’s losing, it lands differently. And rightfully in some regards.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It is weird how the people saying Butler would have made a difference because he could have made one play are the group claiming one play isn’t the difference between winning and losing.

You cry, like a little kid, to the mods when I respond to you, and then you follow me around and try to bait me into your toxic discussions. No thanks…I’m not interested in a discussion with someone who might at any moment have a meltdown and demand that others should be punished for freely expressing their thoughts. I won’t be responding to you, though I do hope that one day you’ll find inner peace and rid yourself of all this anger.

 

[venecol]

I agree. I'll just say there is "TV/NBC Tom E. Curran" who puts on a show and sometimes falls into the trap to the hawt take and the "ProJo Tom Curran" who I think does take the time to think through his points.

I've chatted with him personally a couple of times and hes a good dude. My wife met him once and she always says, "Hey your buddy is on TV". I just like the guy so I watch him.

I heard Curran is a swinger. Any truth to that?

 

[lancerman]

I should’ve been more specific. Offense has changed alot since a few years ago. Here are the stat differences:

NFL Season By Season Passing | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Check out the NFL Season By Season Passing Stats including league totals and averages and more on Pro-football-reference.com

www.pro-football-reference.com

2017 average passer rating 86.9, comp pct. 62.1%, 7.0 ypa
present average passer rating 95.2, comp pct. 66%, 7.5 ypa

The average QB is performing like a great QB a few years ago & an elite QB in the early 2000s. It’s never been easier to play offense. Route running has been devalued in place of athleticism at the receiver position (Hill & Metcalf dominating). There is basically no elite defense in the NFL.

The pats won it all in 2018 going against the grain. It required an elite running game along with the GOAT going perfect on third down in OT on the road.

The top 10 offenses in the NFL are basically the SB favorites. You don’t have much of a chance without an explosive unit on that side of the ball. Bill gets credit for adapting the offense previously. Not disputing that. Questioning the personnel recently.

Don’t forget, our defense that was dominant the next year basically had come together down the stretch and played lights out in a lot of regards

 

[gobesmug]

It is weird how the people saying Butler would have made a difference because he could have made one play are the group claiming one play isn’t the difference between winning and losing.

One play can win or lose a game. Putting yourself in position to lose because of 1 play is never a good thing.

One player can also change the outcome of a game.

Losing Stephen Neal and Faulk in the Superbowl against the Giants possibly cost the game just as much as Asante Samuel dropping the Int or not helping Rodney on the helmet catch.

Malcolm Butler might have helped win the game against the Eagles or he might have blown coverage and cost the game.

We will never know but it wouldn't have hurt to play 1 defensive series with Butler over Bademosi.

Point is Bademosi was trash and not giving Butler the chance to see if he was improvement was a bad decision

 

[Patsgofor4]

No matter whether you love Bill or hate him, its hard and sad to see his legacy get ripped to shreds like this. As the mediocrity continues it will only get worse.

Much like Tom Landry decades ago, Bill Belichick mystique is falling apart | Opinion

No coach in the modern era of pro sports was built by one person more than New England’s Bill Belichick.

www.yahoo.com

Some on this board are thrilled.

 

[venecol]

He explained why he didn’t go for 4th and 3 from his own 46. The exact same answer that 95% of coaching decisions in the history of the NFL have followed.
He has a lead and a rookie QB. Why risk disaster? He didn’t know the final score at that time.
They ran 17 plays out of the 54 plays they had out of 2 TE, FB, RB, Harry.
How many do you want to run out of THAT?

His answers were weak and only showed he's playing not to lose. He's also showing he has no confidence in Mac. I can't believe this is good for the kids confidence. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If the plays are working, why abandon using them for 2 qtrs? One thing is for sure, Bill isn't playing chess anymore. He's playing checkers with the other 23 checker playing teams. There's about 8 teams playing chess, not the Pats.

Their O is so predictable, the Ds almost know what's coming. Their D schemes isn't confusing anybody but their own players. It's pathetic.

 

[Hyped]

Some more comments:

a.) We did not win BECAUSE of Brady in:

2001: That was a TOTAL team effort...greatest single T-E-A-M ever in NFL history bar none. Special teams got us to the SB and we scored only 2 TD passes that playoff run!
2002: Brady led the league in TD passes and did not do us any good at all given Steve Marin being a sieve.
2003: IMO, Brady didn't even break out until the Superbowl against the Panthers. That game against the Titans was won by defense and Vinatieri....then Ty Law in the AFC title game.
2004: Tommy was finally coming on his own and played a big part in that season. However, we limited the Colts to 3 points those playoffs.
2005: Who threw the pick to Champ Bailey? Also, the D was weak that year....we just got by the Jags because they insisted on starting Leftwich on a bad leg over Garrard, IMO.
2006: How the hell did we win in San Diego that year?
2007: That was all Brady......
2008: Brady didn't even play.
2009: The team was limited offensively.
2010: We should have made the AFC title game at least...if not for that Chung fake punt call...wasted a MVP season by Tommy.
2011: Manningham catch....because Chung cheated....is that BB's fault? And the safety given up?
2012: OK, we had no answer for Boldin.
2013: We had no chance without Gronk in Denver.
2014: Greatest coaching call ever....not calling a TO...very Cortez like...leaving his D on the goal line.
2015: If Collins doesn't bite on a seam route TWICE....
2016: Oh man.....3-1 with Garopollo/Brissett.
2017: OK, this is on Belichick...fine....
2018: 3 points given up in the Superbowl?
2019: Dragging that flawed team to a single score loss in the playoffs.....if Chung makes one stop against the Dolphins or Harry is given that TD vs. the Chiefs...we would be hosting the Chiefs on divisional weekend!
2020: Dragged a even more flawed team to a 7-9 record....turn around the Denver/@Buffalo game/@Houston game...and that team was a .500 team, IMO.

BB has been a MAJOR factor in the Pats' success...and yeah he needed Brady to go from being a GOOD coach to a GREAT coach, but it isn't as if he can't win without Brady.

 

[Midship]

I'm so thankful that I read your post..it added so much to my day....keep contributing wonderfully to this forum with your knowledge and insights and keep sharing family information.

 

[venecol]

From the article:

? Coach Belichick’s winning percentage in Cleveland was .450.

? Coach Belichick’s winning percentage in New England without Brady is .457.

Is this true?

George Halas record as oldest coach at 72 years, 318 days old lasted for 53 years before Romeo Crennel broke it in 2020 at 73 years, 199 days. Bill would blow that record away at 75 years old to catch Shula at a .457 winning %.

 

[sb1]

That game against the Titans was won by defense and Vinatieri

...and Drew Bennett. That drop was worse than Welker's and Asante's.

 

[Ian]

From the article:

? Coach Belichick’s winning percentage in Cleveland was .450.

? Coach Belichick’s winning percentage in New England without Brady is .457.

Is this true?

George Halas record as oldest coach at 72 years, 318 days old lasted for 53 years before Romeo Crennel broke it in 2020 at 73 years, 199 days. Bill would blow that record away at 75 years old to catch Shula at a .457 winning %.

Just trying to figure out from the author how it's Belichick's fault he had Brady here for nearly 20-years?

Brady had the desire and the drive to be great. Belichick showed him how to do it, just like he's helped a lot of guys become great. And this isn't me saying it, guys have been documented saying just that.

Brady just took it to another level and never let up. My only complaint is that Belichick gave up on him a couple of years too soon. But at the same time, if they don't let him go and they don't go 7-9 last year, they don't end up with Jones, who may be the guy who might really be the one.

So given what we've seen, even though I hated seeing Brady go, I'm pleased with the results and I'm excited for the future. Even if it means a frustrating 2021.