Sad to see BB's legacy ripped apart like this

[Pats1971]

Tomlin has never had a losing season and harbaugh won a SB with Flacco and now has the next guy.

Winning with Flacco is praise enough.

 

[Boomer B]

Bill as a coach hasn’t lost it, he’s still a damn good game planner.

There are issues though:

1) Talent - how many game changers on our roster? How many upper echelon, pro bowl/all pro type players? Only one I can think of is Judon. The drafts of recent years before this one are hurting us now.

2) Staff - he’s lost a lot of coaching talent and office staff in recent years. Is Steve Belichick as good a coach as B. Flores?

3) Ability to Change - the game is changing. Speed is key. We draft slow pokes like N Keal Harry, Bentley, etc...

4) Brady - this is the biggest one of them all. Brady made a poor team good, a good team great, and a great team an all-timer. If Brady was here we are likely 4-2 or 5-1 right now and no one is making these claims about Belichick.

 

[Ross12]

Tomlin has never had a losing season and harbaugh won a SB with Flacco and now has the next guy.

Tomlin has never had a losing season. But I think some of it was the notion that Bill touches a magic wand and they turn into goat players that floated out there. As I said, if you get the praise for winning, you should get questioned for losing.

"Never had a losing season"... but has gone 8-8 three times, 9-7 once, 9-6-1 once, and is 3-3 now. Yeah Bill was wayyyy worse last year at... 7-9.

 

[VectorPrime]

Also do you listen to Pittsburgh sports radio? Baltimore sports radio? Maybe they rip their coaches all the time.

 

[Pats1971]

Bill as a coach hasn’t lost it, he’s still a damn good game planner.

There are issues though:

1) Talent - how many game changers on our roster? How many upper echelon, pro bowl/all pro type players? Only one I can think of is Judon. The drafts of recent years before this one are hurting us now.

2) Staff - he’s lost a lot of coaching talent and office staff in recent years. Is Steve Belichick as good a coach as B. Flores?

3) Ability to Change - the game is changing. Speed is key. We draft slow pokes like N Keal Harry, Bentley, etc...

4) Brady - this is the biggest one of them all. Brady made a poor team good, a good team great, and a great team an all-timer. If Brady was here we are likely 4-2 or 5-1 right now and no one is making these claims about Belichick.

I think if Brady here this receiving corp, TE's and oline are all better. Its not really on Mac though. He has played 6 games, he should be be making players better just yet. He is not changing everything at the line and he does not have the entire playbook at his whim. He is basically protected and asked to just not mess things up, which is what he should be.

 

[Pats1971]

"Never had a losing season"... but has gone 8-8 three times, 9-7 once, 9-6-1 once, and is 3-3 now. Yeah Bill was wayyyy worse last year at... 7-9.

Bill was also 5-11. I mean no losing season is no losing season and I am not even saying they are better. But you brought those guys up. I would not want either of them over Bill, but they have done things that Bill has not really done in that regard.

 

[venecol]

wins are a team stat.......that superbowl win by Tampa was won by a team with the best roster in the game last year; they played the best as a team in the playoffs......team win, not individual

So you're saying Bruce Arians deserves more credit than Tom? Lol

 

[yukon cornelius]

It's not a media creation. Lol.
It's an NFL stat. Same as pitchers in baseball.

lol not even close.....they never talked QB wins until the 90's

 

[yukon cornelius]

So you're saying Bruce Arians deserves more credit than Tom? Lol

100% yes.....arians built that team, along with his GM......bruce arians is 100% more responsible than tom brady for the TB superbowl win

 

[Ross12]

Bill was also 5-11. I mean no losing season is no losing season and I am not even saying they are better. But you brought those guys up. I would not want either of them over Bill, but they have done things that Bill has not really done in that regard.

That's practically in a different era at this point though. I guess my point is that we're talking about Bill's "legacy being shredded" which seems to imply he's lost it or he isn't that good after all because he's had one 7-9 season and started this season 2-4, so I'm just pointing to other coaches generally regarded as very good/successful who've also had seasons around as bad in their portfolios. Hopefully that makes sense.

 

[Pats1971]

lol not even close.....they never talked QB wins until the 90's

Thats false. Montana was called for wins and superbowl wins in the 80's.

 

[RobertWeathers]

So are you saying they spent money on the wrong players?

No. I made a general statement about free agency and implied how spending a **** ton of money doesn't necessarily make the TEAM better or correlate to winning more games.

Seems you are implying having more talent makes the team better even though they lose more than a less-talented team?

Does spending 160 mil in the offseason on the wrong players, cause cap issues?

What is your definition of a cap issue?

If the team is winning championships but is up against the cap every year, do you care?

 

[Pats1971]

100% yes.....arians built that team, along with his GM......bruce arians is 100% more responsible than tom brady for the TB superbowl win

LMAO, ok you lost it. Im done. Even Bruce would laugh at you.

 

[Pats1971]

No. I made a general statement about free agency and implied how spending a **** ton of money doesn't necessarily make the TEAM better or correlate to winning more games.

Seems you are implying having more talent makes the team better even though they lose more than a less-talented team?

What is your definition of a cap issue?

If the team is winning championships but is up against the cap every year, do you care?

You said they had cap issues, not me. I just wonder why they never did before...now all of the sudden they have cap issues player issues, etc etc. All teams play under a cap, all have the same money. If you have cap issues, thats on the person who makes the decisions.

 

[yukon cornelius]

Coaching/managing great talent and keeping it together is more difficult than taking low or medium talent and winning a little more than expected. I don’t think the 90s Bulls win six championships without Phil Jackson. Maybe he can’t rebuild a crappy team or spin wool into gold, but dealing with success, fame, everyone wanting credit and a spotlight, is very hard to manage. To keep it together for 20 years in the NFL is exceptional.

And all that matches Bill’s personality. A hardass. A guy who doesn’t tolerate flashy individual glory over unsung contributions for team success. A perfectionist who demands perfection from everyone else. A guy who leverages the team’s position and reputation.

Some of these qualities that made him so great at sustaining the dynasty, may have opposite effects on a less talented team though.

i don't think he's as hardass as some on the outside think.....neither was Lombardi - both knew/know when to kick a player in the ass and when to pat them on back (and usually do/did at at the opposite time the player thought each was coming.......Kramer always talked about lombardi screaming at you when you thought you were doing well, and patting you on the back when you thought you were going to get lit up.......BB understands the psychology involved far better than some give him credit for......he has a lot more in common with a guy like Lombardi (who, IMHO was always the gold standard) than say a guy like Parcells, who I don't think understood the psychology as well, and had a lot of guys burn out on his style after a few years

there's a lot of similarities between Lombardi and BB when you look at their styles and careers and upbringing.....

 

[yukon cornelius]

LMAO, ok you lost it. Im done. Even Bruce would laugh at you.

one player does not win a Lombardi.......the architect is way more responsible.......I'm really questioning your understanding of the complexity of the game.......in the modern game the QB is an essential position, but they'd have won last year with other QBs.......they would not have won without that collection of talent and how it was orchestrated

 

[Pats1971]

i don't think he's as hardass as some on the outside think.....neither was Lombardi - both knew/know when to kick a player in the ass and when to pat them on back (and usually do/did at at the opposite time the player thought each was coming.......Kramer always talked about lombardi screaming at you when you thought you were doing well, and patting you on the back when you thought you were going to get lit up.......BB understands the psychology involved far better than some give him credit for......he has a lot more in common with a guy like Lombardi (who, IMHO was always the gold standard) than say a guy like Parcells, who I don't think understood the psychology as well, and had a lot of guys burn out on his style after a few years

there's a lot of similarities between Lombardi and BB when you look at their styles and careers and upbringing.....

If Bill's style does not start producing wins, players will burn out on it as well. The Patriot way only makes sense when you win.

 

[Zarozzor]

100% yes.....arians built that team, along with his GM......bruce arians is 100% more responsible than tom brady for the TB superbowl win

 

[Pats1971]

one player does not win a Lombardi.......the architect is way more responsible.......I'm really questioning your understanding of the complexity of the game.......in the modern game the QB is an essential position, but they'd have won last year with other QBs.......they would not have won without that collection of talent and how it was orchestrated

They were 7-9 and had not won a playoff game in 18 years. Brady goes to the team and they win the superbowl. Yeah I would say one player made quite a difference. You say they would have won with other QB's but they didnt, so not sure how you can say they would. I have reality on my side and you have guessing. That collection of talent never won ****. Not sure what you are not getting.

 

[Boomer B]

100% yes.....arians built that team, along with his GM......bruce arians is 100% more responsible than tom brady for the TB superbowl win

Come on now. Brady changed the whole culture of that organization. They were perennial losers. They weren’t winning squat without Brady, and it was also Brady who made the change from the Tampa offensive system early in the season. Leftwhich and Arians were there for the ride. It was also Brady who brought Gronk and Brown to the team. He wasn’t the sole reason they won but he was the biggest reason.