Gasper: I think Bill is realizing his system doesn't work without high level QB play

[Pape]

It's not even a high-level QB. Tom Brady is the only modern QB to never have a losing season.

Manning had losing seasons before his prime after that he always had a winning record.

HOF QBs like Brett Favre, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Ben Rothlisburger have all had losing seasons IN THEIR PRIME.

That's how great Brady is, with a GOAT HC they never went worse than 9-7 and made the playoffs every single year aside from that year.

No team will have that kind of success again.

Just look at their Chiefs, there 3-4 year window looks like it is closing and they will need to rebuild after a couple of losing seasons

This Brady being the only QB without a losing season is not entirely true. Roethlisberger / Stealers have never had a losing season. Went 8-8 a few times, but have not been under .500 during his run there.

 

[gobesmug]

This Brady being the only QB without a losing season is not entirely true. Roethlisberger / Stealers have never had a losing season. Went 8-8 a few times, but have not been under .500 during his run there.

He went 8-8 4 times. Not a winning record either.

Brady's worse record was 9-7 and that happened once.

Clearly there is a huge difference in winning.

The main point is fans shouldn't expect to go 12-5 on ave with Mac every year because no QB outside of Brady does that.

There will be some 7-10 or 8-9 seasons ahead.

 

[Pape]

He went 8-8 4 times. Not a winning record either.

Brady's worse record was 9-7 and that happened once.

Clearly there is a huge difference in winning.

The main point is fans shouldn't expect to go 12-5 on ave with Mac every year because no QB outside of Brady does that.

There will be some 7-10 or 8-9 seasons ahead.

8-8 is not a losing record no matter how you want to spin it.

Clearly the Patriots were a better team over that period of time.

So basically this is a way to take a dig at Mac five games into his career & at the same time stroke the Bradytonians egos than it is to provide any sort of meaningful dialog. Gotcha.

jfc


I got to say, the way the tb v bb argument has infested every single ****ing thread is really ****ing tiresome

 

[gobesmug]

8-8 is not a losing record no matter how you want to spin it.

Clearly the Patriots were a better team over that period of time.

So basically this is a way to take a dig at Mac five games into his career & at the same time stroke the Bradytonians egos than it is to provide any sort of meaningful dialog. Gotcha.

jfc


I got to say, the way the tb v bb argument has infested every single ****ing thread is really ****ing tiresome

God so obtuse.

No not even close, the exact opposite of what I said.

There should be zero expectation of having a playoff run every single year. Failing to make the playoffs this year wouldn't mean Mac is a bust.

Fans have been spoiled by the GOAT and think a ton of QBs could replicate that success.

Fact is it won't happen.

Because plenty of HOF QBs have missed the playoffs and had multiple losing seasons or failed to break .500 multiple times throughout their career

 

[Pape]

God so obtuse.

No not even close, the exact opposite of what I said.

There should be zero expectation of having a playoff run every single year. Failing to make the playoffs this year wouldn't mean Mac is a bust.

Fans have been spoiled by the GOAT and think a ton of QBs could replicate that success.

Fact is it won't happen.

Because plenty of HOF QBs have missed the playoffs and had multiple losing seasons or failed to break .500 multiple times throughout their career

So obvious.

 

[gobesmug]

So obvious.

So obtuse

 

[203Pat]

What are we arguing about now? Brady was over paid? Not paid enough?

 

[gobesmug]

I see no point in trading for Watson. He isn't a leader and he has no playoff success.

Mac looks very promising. His composure is great and he doesn't force dumb throws.

His ability to read the def post snap and make a quick decision is already pro level.

His game reminds me a lot of Drew Brees. You don't trade a player like that for a non-winning, non-complacent guy that gets prostitutes from Instagram which further proves poor decision making

 

[BigPeteG]

In college, sure. In the NFL winning a national championship in college has no bearing on if he is gonna be a JAG or not.

I get what you are saying.. You can do well in college and bust out in the NFL. I was just pointing out that being a JAG is impossible for guy who won a national championship with the Crimson Tide. Guys who do that will never be just another guy. But yeah they could bust out in the NFL and many have..

Now with regards to Jones actually being a mediocre/poor NFL QB. We have not seen any evidence of that thus far. He is ahead of or tied with almost all QBs who have recently left college. This means he is on track to being an excellent QB even great QB.

The debate about Jones is really down to believing the scouts who claim he has no upside because he is not athletic and his arm is weak. That he is a just a brain without an NFL body. It remains to be seen if these scouts should be believed. It remains to be seen if BB believes or now agrees with these scouts.

On the downside - Mac has not wowed us with any out of this world plays - this is how most people evaluate talent. The Mahomes crazy deep throw after scrambling. The Josh Allen hurdling defenders etc.

On the upside - from a statistical standpoint without great pass catchers and a good offensive line - he has been quite solid. The team likes him, he shows good leadership qualities, good toughness, and tons of smarts. I think his footwork has been solid as well - and I think his mobility is very underrated.

I don't think I would trade for Watson. Seems like a bad apple - even in comparison to AB who wasn't a quality enough guy to make it on the Pats. Nor am I convinced he is that great. If he was - Houston would placate him and keep him..

I have been a Pats fan or a long time. And I totally remember rooting for Bledsoe over Brady at the start because I felt Brady would only dink and dunk on the field and never threw it deep. Many felt he couldn't even throw a deep ball. This of course was a lie - and eventually Brady developed the reputation that he has now - a guy with a big arm that makes the smart play..

 

[203Pat]

I see no point in trading for Watson. He isn't a leader and he has no playoff success.

Mac looks very promising. His composure is great and he doesn't force dumb throws.

His ability to read the def post snap and make a quick decision is already pro level.

His game reminds me a lot of Drew Brees. You don't trade a player like that for a non-winning, non-complacent guy that gets prostitutes from Instagram which further proves poor decision making

Instagram prostitutes aside Watson is 100x the QB Mac is.

 

[amfootball]

Mac looks very promising. His composure is great and he doesn't force dumb throws.

I see him make 4-5 dumb throws a game.

 

[gobesmug]

Instagram prostitutes aside Watson is 100x the QB Mac is.

No he isn't.

Intangibles and ability to read a def is a lot more important than running around a pocket and chucking it downfield 50yards.

Watson is a poor mans Mahomes. There is nothing special about his game.

Also he is a terrible leader and has poor decision making skills both on and off the field.

I've never been impressed by Watson.

Dak Prescott on the other hand is special. We could have drafted him over Brisset

 

[203Pat]

No he isn't.

Intangibles and ability to read a def is a lot more important than running around a pocket and chucking it downfield 50yards.

Watson is a poor mans Mahomes. There is nothing special about his game.

Also he is a terrible leader and has poor decision making skills both on and off the field.

I've never been impressed by Watson.

Dak Prescott on the other hand is special. We could have drafted him over Brisset

Since when can Watson not read a defense? Do you have any examples of this or are you just saying things to say them? Outside of his recent off field stuff how is he a "terrible leader"?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I have been a Pats fan or a long time. And I totally remember rooting for Bledsoe over Brady at the start because I felt Brady would only dink and dunk on the field and never threw it deep. Many felt he couldn't even throw a deep ball. This of course was a lie

Surprised you fell for that. But I can't judge - estimate I've done (and said) as many stupid things as anybody here.

Instagram prostitutes aside Watson is 100x the QB Mac is.

Today. We'll see how Mac develops.

I see him make 4-5 dumb throws a game.

He's learning. That's par for the course for a typical rookie.

I get what you are saying.. You can do well in college and bust out in the NFL. I was just pointing out that being a JAG is impossible for guy who won a national championship with the Crimson Tide. Guys who do that will never be just another guy. But yeah they could bust out in the NFL and many have.

He's not Gino Torretta

 

[gobesmug]

Since when can Watson not read a defense? Do you have any examples of this or are you just saying things to say them? Outside of his recent off field stuff how is he a "terrible leader"?

From what I've watched.

He tends to force it immediately to the designed rec or he moves outside the pocket and looks for a rec to be open.

I haven't seen all his games so maybe he looks different in other games from what I've seen.

He throws it to where the rec is, I haven't seen him make crossing routes and placed the ball to where the rec will be.

His one playoff win came with 7 sacks and a fumble because again, he doesn't make quick decisions from the pocket but instead has to run outside the pocket or hangs on to the ball too long.

Better yet, you claim him to be 100x better than Mac. I've looked at the stats and Watson didn't throw 500TDs his first 5 games.

So how is Watson 100x better?

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

I think what drives Gasper is not so much that he hates Mac - I think he hates the idea that some pats fans think we are entitled to another historic run and we got the next great qb, no questions asked.

He tries to match the level of overly positive hype with his negatively framed projection. If he said , Hey Mac might be a multiple pro bowl qb who leads the pats to atleast the wildcard round...people wouldnt care...but if he says he'll be the next Andy Dalton - he knows ppl will react because peoples opinion on Dalton are generally bad.

It's low hanging fruit for these guys - keeps them relevant/clicks up.

This is a good point

Comments:

a.) No ****, Sherlock....you need an elite QB to win in this league...now moreso than ever...Trent Dilfer and that Ravens D wouldn't win **** in today's league....

b.) DeShaun....great player, but with an owner who has frequented some massage parlors....that would just not work. Social media memes will kill us.....

I think what is driving his point though is that too many Pats fans think (or at least thought) that we can go on ahead and continue the dynasty again, that Bekichick can win with anyone, that all we need is a decent team with a solid QB and we can run it back like we have the past 20 years, when in reality, it's not that easy. This is why pats fans also move the goalposts.

Some genuinely thought we could win 10 games last year because "Bill would resurrect Cam". Then we didn't, and people said "well we lost guys due to covid and we had no cap, 7 wins was actually impressive".

Then entering this year, many thought that with the spending in free agency and the players returning, we'd win 10-11 games again. But then now, that doesn't look too likely, and people are saying "oh, it's a rebuild, Mac's a rookie".

The reality is that we've had teams like this before that would still be a lock to win 10-12 games with Brady.

It's not that easy to win, and Gasper is tying the Belichick angle into it since many Pats fans are hoping we can make and win a couple of super bowls in the near future. It's not easy to win in this league.

Im not saying Mac is bad, but his arm strength past 20 yards isn't that great (and Pats fans seemingly forgot that Brady always had powerful arm, even if he needed to set his feet), and you have to wonder how much of Belichick's coaching style was only accepted by other players due to Bradys leadership (as people like Revis have alluded to).

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Mac looks very promising. His composure is great and he doesn't force dumb throws.

Mac's already bumped Drew Bledsoe to 12th and Tony Eason to 13th on my Best Quarterbacks Who Were Patriots list.

Don't be mesmerized by passing stats alone.

Nothing to be ashamed of. They're both ahead of Hugh Millen.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

It's not that easy to win, and Gasper is tying the Belichick angle into it since many Pats fans are hoping we can make and win a couple of super bowls in the near future. It's not easy to win in this league.

We need to improve in several areas.

But if Mac is anywhere near as good next year as Grogan and Brady were in their second seasons, that'll be impressive.

 

[Ring 6]

Mac's already bumped Drew Bledsoe to 12th and Tony Eason to 13th on my Best Quarterbacks Who Were Patriots list.

Don't be mesmerized by passing stats alone.

Nothing to be ashamed of. They're both ahead of Hugh Millen.

Please give us your list that has Bledsoe 12 and Eason 13

 

[gobesmug]

Please give us your list that has Bledsoe 12 and Eason 13

Obviously Cam is up there along with Kevin O'Connell