Mac Ahead of Where Manning Was His Rookie Year

[Bruins29]

Umm....Tom did beat out bledsoe...difference here is Cam was getting a bag of balls Bledsoe was getting 100 mil, and he still sat for Brady. If Cam was making 100 mil he would be your QB right now.

What are you talking about ?

 

[Pats1971]

Tom definitely didn't beat out Drew as a rookie. Didn't beat him out as a 2nd year player either. Tom was an injury replacement who then took over.

Yeah you didnt get what I said. Bledsoe had a 100 mil contract. Mac would not have been the starter in 2000 either. If Cam was making 100 mil Jones would not be the starter. Also. The pats were a 5-11 team who had never won a superbowl. Brady took over at 0-2 and then went 11-3. Mac basically was given the job, because there was really not anything else here. That is why he was drafted so high because the pats didnt have a QB. Mac will have several years to see if he can make it. brady had one shot.

 

[Pats1971]

What are you talking about ?

Just what I said. The pats had a starting QB that was a long time starter who just signed a new contract when Brady was drafted. If they had that now, Jones would not be the starter.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Mac's passing chart thru 5 games per 2021 New England Patriots Stats | Sortable 3rd Down, Red Zone Passing and Rushing Opponent Stats.

View attachment 36564

This includes YAC:

View attachment 36570

Not sure what the average NFL splits are, but this seems at first glance to confirm what we’ve seen.

here's a look back... isolated the first five career starts of the top ten on the current leader board, with Mac slotted in... just to frame the reference

It’s a great reference…some guys like Wilson, Stafford, etc. I could have sworn were better, but that just shows how reality can be distorted because now you see them at a high level and forget the early struggles.

AY/A is a little different from ANY/A though. The guys in 2021 will be higher because sacks are being deducted with ANY/A.

 

[Bruins29]

Just what I said. The pats had a starting QB that was a long time starter who just signed a new contract when Brady was drafted. If they had that now, Jones would not be the starter.

I am talking about TB beating out Bledsoe and that you think Cam would still be here earning 100 mil the way he was playing

 

[Pape]

Not sure what the average NFL splits are, but this seems at first glance to confirm what we’ve seen.



It’s a great reference…some guys like Wilson, Stafford, etc. I could have sworn were better, but that just shows how reality can be distorted because now you see them at a high level and forget the early struggles.

It is just for their first five starts though, so the numbers might have improved by seasons end... but since we only have 5 games with Mac, i thought it was a fair reference...

i was shocked at stafford as well, but outside of calvin johnson he had nothing to work with... threw 20 picks as well in '09

the one that really didnt surprise me was Josh Allen... he wasn't very good his first year

 

[Pats1971]

I am talking about TB beating out Bledsoe and that you think Cam would still be here earning 100 mil the way he was playing

Yes When Brady came in Bledsoe never got his job back, that is beating someone out. If Cam was full time starter and had a huge contract, I am not even sure they draft jones. If they thought enough of Cam to give him a huge contract then they would not be looking for a QB in the first round. That is what Bledsoe was, he was the full time starter who just signed a contract. Brady or anyone else would not have started then.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I have jones ahead of Brady and Manning in terms of development.

the only question in my mind is what is Jones’s ceiling?

Based on his college career, I think he exceeds both, if bb can remove his head from his behind and surround this kid with better talent!

 

[Pats1971]

I have jones ahead of Brady and Manning in terms of development.

the only question in my mind is what is Jones’s ceiling?

Based on his college career, I think he exceeds both, if bb can remove his head from his behind and surround this kid with better talent!

There will never be another human that surpasses Brady, so if that is your goal for him, you are going to have a rough time. I do not think people really get what he did for 20 years. Jones will never see that. He could become a great QB and do great things and have a nice career, he will never...ever exceed Brady, and its frankly silly to even say that. College careers are useless to what someone will be in the NFL, thats number 1. Number 2. Bill will retire before this kid gets 8 years in. The word that puts Brady above anything else, is constant consistency. Constant, over and over. Guys with much more talent, has not touched him, smarter guys have not touched him. There has been nothing shown in any way to say Jones will even be in the same sentence as brady, and this is not a knock on him. This is a reality. Talent? The talent on this team right now on offense laps what they had in 2001. Bill went out and spent a **** ton on talent. This notion that oh Bill needs to put talent around him....he did.

 

[scott99]

I just dug these numbers out:



Again, not saying he's Manning by any means, this is obviously just a reminder to those who seem to be dismissing him that even the great ones took time to come into their own. I didn't do the Brady comparison because as we know, that's been discussed enough. But seeing these totals, while we don't know what type of player he'll eventually be, Jones is obviously off to a pretty good start.

That’s interesting, because Manning finished with 25 TD passes and 27 INTs I believe. So if he was at 4-12 TD to INT to start after 5 games, he had 21 TD passes and 15 INTs in his last 11 games. Not a bad progression over the last 3/4 of the season.

I predicted 25 TD Passes and 12 INTs for Mac, which means he’d have to throw 20 TD passes and only 8 INTs the rest of the way. It’ll be tough, after the first 2 games, he’s thrown INTs in his last 3 games. I actually think the offense is starting to slowly but surely get better. He’s using everybody, but he certainly has his favorites so far (Meyers & Henry). I’m optimistic things will start to come together soon.

 

[Pats1971]

That’s interesting, because Manning finished with 25 TD passes and 27 INTs I believe. So if he was at 4-12 TD to INT to start after 5 games, he had 21 TD passes and 15 INTs in his last 11 games. Not a bad progression over the last 3/4 of the season.

I predicted 25 TD Passes and 12 INTs for Mac, which means he’d have to throw 20 TD passes and only 8 INTs the rest of the way. It’ll be tough, after the first 2 games, he’s thrown INTs in his last 3 games. I actually think the offense is starting to slowly but surely get better. He’s using everybody, but he certainly has his favorites so far (Meyers & Henry). I’m optimistic things will start to come together soon.

Mac will not be near 25 td's and 12 ints this year. The pats have not even faced a good defense yet. Football was a whole lot different back then than now. Things could get a little better, but they really aren't offense is about the same as it has been since the first game. Get about 18 points, redzone bad, fg's fg's fg's and that is against bad defenses.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Imagine being Miami and passing on Herbert for Too Ah?

Flores and Grier are thinking about and it will cost them their jobs.

Herbert is a contender for top team in the AFC, while the Dolphins age 1-4. Tua wouldn’t change much.

 

[Pats1971]

Flores and Grier are thinking about and it will cost them their jobs.

Herbert is a contender for top team in the AFC, while the Dolphins age 1-4. Tua wouldn’t change much.

Brisset is better than Tua if that tells you anything.

 

[scott99]

Not sure what the average NFL splits are, but this seems at first glance to confirm what we’ve seen.



It’s a great reference…some guys like Wilson, Stafford, etc. I could have sworn were better, but that just shows how reality can be distorted because now you see them at a high level and forget the early struggles.

AY/A is a little different from ANY/A though. The guys in 2021 will be higher because sacks are being deducted with ANY/A.

Great chart, thanks for this. Mac is certainly having a fine rookie year. I think his football IQ is very high, and he’s learning how to be an NFL QB pretty quickly. He has definitely won over the coaching staff and his teammates. I expect a few bad games like the New Orleans game, maybe a few multiple INT games, but I think by game 10 he will be a lot better than he is now.

Someone mentioned Belichick needs to get his head out of his ass and surround Mac with some talent. I agree with this, would love to wind up with John Metchie, the Alabama WR. Not only is he really talented, Mac trusted him at Alabama. He basically took over for Waddle when Waddle got hurt, and was the #2 receiver to Smith. Some other good receivers out there, but I like Metchie for Jones, due to the familiarity as well as Metchie’s talent.

 

[Pats1971]

Great chart, thanks for this. Mac is certainly having a fine rookie year. I think his football IQ is very high, and he’s learning how to be an NFL QB pretty quickly. He has definitely won over the coaching staff and his teammates. I expect a few bad games like the New Orleans game, maybe a few multiple INT games, but I think by game 10 he will be a lot better than he is now.

Someone mentioned Belichick needs to get his head out of his ass and surround Mac with some talent. I agree with this, would love to wind up with John Metchie, the Alabama WR. Not only is he really talented, Mac trusted him at Alabama. He basically took over for Waddle when Waddle got hurt, and was the #2 receiver to Smith. Some other good receivers out there, but I like Metchie for Jones, due to the familiarity as well as Metchie’s talent.

Well how high do you think Metchie would go in the draft? Because they usually do not take them very high especially after they spend 160 mil in the offseason.

 

[scott99]

Mac will not be near 25 td's and 12 ints this year. The pats have not even faced a good defense yet. Football was a whole lot different back then than now. Things could get a little better, but they really aren't offense is about the same as it has been since the first game. Get about 18 points, redzone bad, fg's fg's fg's and that is against bad defenses.

You’re under the assumption that things CAN’T improve. They most certainly can. Mac is 5th in completion % and tied for 4th in completions (in the NFL). And I think he’s only scraped the surface.

As far as defenses faced, coming into this year, Miami, Tampa and New Orleans were top 10 defenses. I know with Tampa, it’s all about the injuries in their secondary, not sure about Miami and New Orleans is 4th in the NFL in points against, so their defense is still pretty damned good.

 

[venecol]

Great chart, thanks for this. Mac is certainly having a fine rookie year. I think his football IQ is very high, and he’s learning how to be an NFL QB pretty quickly. He has definitely won over the coaching staff and his teammates. I expect a few bad games like the New Orleans game, maybe a few multiple INT games, but I think by game 10 he will be a lot better than he is now.

Someone mentioned Belichick needs to get his head out of his ass and surround Mac with some talent. I agree with this, would love to wind up with John Metchie, the Alabama WR. Not only is he really talented, Mac trusted him at Alabama. He basically took over for Waddle when Waddle got hurt, and was the #2 receiver to Smith. Some other good receivers out there, but I like Metchie for Jones, due to the familiarity as well as Metchie’s talent.

Need OL help 1st and foremost. Mac is going to have to make it happen with Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Henry and Smith. That's better than anything we had recently.

 

[Pats1971]

You’re under the assumption that things CAN’T improve. They most certainly can. Mac is 5th in completion % and tied for 4th in completions (in the NFL). And I think he’s only scraped the surface.

As far as defenses faced, coming into this year, Miami, Tampa and New Orleans were top 10 defenses. I know with Tampa, it’s all about the injuries in their secondary, not sure about Miami and New Orleans is 4th in the NFL in points against, so their defense is still pretty damned good.

No I am under the assumption that things dont happen unless they do. Miami and tampa are two of the worst defenses in the league. lol, You might need a better example. Pats play buffalo twice, they are number 1. The pats play no worse pass defenses than they already have. What a team was last year does not mean much for this year. They have played pretty bad secondaries and he has 5 td's and 5 ints. It does not get easier. So again, I have to go by that logic and say no, he will not have those kinds of numbers.

 

[scott99]

Well how high do you think Metchie would go in the draft? Because they usually do not take them very high especially after they spend 160 mil in the offseason.

I see Metchie as a mid to late 1st round pick (around where the Pats pick) . Considering Harry will probably be gone after this season (good riddance), there will be an opening.

 

[Pats1971]

Need OL help 1st and foremost. Mac is going to have to make it happen with Agholor, Bourne, Meyers, Henry and Smith. That's better than anything we had recently.

That is better than anything the pats have had at receiver in about 5 years.