OT: Official 2021 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[amfootball]

100%

I’ve been meaning to mix this point into a Mac thread but have held off because I’m sure I’m already perceived as a HaTeR. But the idea that Brady played it safe is so inaccurate. And not just downfield throws but splitting safeties, etc. and throwing high-risk, high-reward passes frequently.

It’s Occam’s Razor with Mac: he’s the reason for lack of big plays. In five games, there are plenty of times to make them, even if the o-line has struggled overall. To think he’s “never” able to make a big pass because of protection or WRs. Agholor is definitely a big play guy along with Bourne and Smith. And there’s no way the playbook or coaches are dictating this. It’s more cult thinking on the main forum. Not that I have a problem with Jones kind of wading into the water as he progresses, but let’s just see it for what it is: he’s a huge outlier for a rookie in his mastery of the high percentage pass and aversion to the high-risk, high-damage pass. I’m not sure if I’d rather have a guy with all that arm talent like Wilson, Lance, Lawrence and try to bring things into focus, or the guy with all the focus and intelligence, and try to make him into a guy capable of carrying you.

Mac does not have the arm talent or strength IMO for the big plays. It is glaring if you watch him throw anything beyond 15 yards. Everything is floated. It is very concerning as without the ability to make those throws our offense will be stuck in first gear.

 

[Deus Irae]

2001 is basically being retconned to being a Super Team.

Absolutely. The revisionists have been taking this team:

According to David Halberstam’s The Education of a Coach, Belichick reacted to the 2001 upset of the Rams by crowing, “Can you believe we won the Super Bowl with this?!”

and positioningit as a team that was so good that it basically had no need for a QB.

 

[Deus Irae]

Mac does not have the arm talent or strength IMO for the big plays. It is glaring if you watch him throw anything beyond 15 yards. Everything is floated. It is very concerning as without the ability to make those throws our offense will be stuck in first gear.

His functional throwing strength should get better over the course of the next few years, as he strengthens not just his arm, but his legs and core. He's almost certainly never going to have an elite throwing arm, but he doesn't need that. He just needs to be able to make all the throws. The kid's not post injury Pennington, and he's probably going to end up somewhere in the Peyton Manning arm strength area.

 

[VectorPrime]

If I’m Brady I pull a power move in the offseason and try and recruit Mac to TB-12

 

[Tony2046]

I was still a kid at the time, were Pats fans so annoyingly defensive over the mediocre to bad Pete Carrol teams as they are for this years squad? Because my impression is that fans were absolutely pissed back then.

I don't know. Twitter and Facebook hadn't been invented yet back then.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Why Tom Brady’s 61-yard TD to Antonio Brown is one of his greatest throws

Tom Brady's 61-yard touchdown pass to Antonio Brown against the Dolphins was yet another example of his greatness.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Tony2046]

No, it isn’t crazy at all. Dak hangs in the pocket…it was impressive against Tampa. He can make every kind of pass. I’d definitely take him over Wilson. Dak has a strong argument to be top 5. Wilson no longer plays at that level.

Dak has taken his game to another level. He's been impressive thus far.

Funny, a few years ago I compared him to Brissett.

 

[Pats1971]

Absolutely. The revisionists have been taking this team:



and positioningit as a team that was so good that it basically had no need for a QB.

The worst thing I keep seeing is Pats fans comparing everything to 2001. Wow, we almost beat a team, just like the Rams, wow a comeback, just like the chargers game. Hey we were 1-3, they were 1-3. It was freaking 20 years ago people with completely different players. I am not sure the fan mantra of, if something happened before that means it will happen the same way.

 

[Pats1971]

Why Tom Brady’s 61-yard TD to Antonio Brown is one of his greatest throws

Tom Brady's 61-yard touchdown pass to Antonio Brown against the Dolphins was yet another example of his greatness.

sports.yahoo.com

That was the throw I kept showing my son's. Brady had major pressure up the middle ( you know that stuff he cannot play against) threw a dime in a place he knew Brown would be, he didnt even break stride. What the difference between good and great QB;s are. Good QB's throw at open guys, great throw where the guy will be and throws it in the spot he can do more with it.

 

[Deus Irae]

JPP talking via Zoom now. Said his dinged-up shoulder is still sore and he has a broken finger "in two pieces." ... "I think me going out there and showing the resilience that I got, this is what it takes to win Super Bowls." #Bucs

#Bucs OLB Jason Pierre-Paul says he has a fractured finger on his right hand that split "into two pieces" and added there's not much left of it to begin with.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I was still a kid at the time, were Pats fans so annoyingly defensive over the mediocre to bad Pete Carrol teams as they are for this years squad? Because my impression is that fans were absolutely pissed back then.

No. The normal reaction for a fan base is to second guess and criticize the front office/coach when the team isn't performing well. The Patriots fan base, however, has a large amount of people who believe that for the last 20 years, they're somehow tied personally to Bill Belichick's decisions and success, and therefore they become over-the-top defensive about failures. And then there's a faction of that group, which you see a lot of here, who are really, really crazy about Belichick, almost like a cult talking about 2001 as if it's some weird religious decree that the team will transform to greatness through ceremonial offerings to the football gods.

I have no issue with people who think we should give Bill leeway and shouldn't expect to win every year. That's not really my problem with the team. My problem with the team is I'd rather be losing with younger, developing players who are learning and will improve, players who you can build around long-term. What they have out there ain't that. The quarterback is that, but the rest of the team isn't.

Meanwhile, another report came out yesterday that Belichick once again failed to shop a player for best draft return. While "dumb" fans have been calling on them to trade Gilmore for two years, and the "fake media reports" have suggested teams were interested, they did the same exact thing as with Garoppolo, waiting too long, and then in the end making some ridiculous knee jerk trade which is way less than market because they apparently hadn't done anything for over a year to get the best draft value return. At the last minute, a 6th round pick in 2023 and teams telling reporters they would have paid that and more for Gilmore. Same exact thing as Garoppolo and the Browns.

The front office is truly a clown show now; missed deadlines to players for contract offers (Humphries, Cook), missed deadlines for trades (Michael Bennett a few years ago), laughably botched draft returns (Gilmore, Garoppolo.). They've just given away multiple advantages by outright incompetence/arrogance. Imagine declining mutliple first day picks during this rebuild, as they have almost no young stars as their cornerstone.

Report: Patriots Didn't Engage Many Teams In Stephon Gilmore Trade Talks

If you thought the return for Stephon Gilmore was low, then you're not alone. A number of NFL executives feel the same.

boston.cbslocal.com

I can't even post this on the main forum because the response is so cultishly stupid. They'll literally argue that a pick is a pick (they've argued in the past, for example, that a fifth and sixth round pick is great because it's two picks!!! if that argument somehow makes Bill look better.). They'll use dishonest tactics to whitewash it. I argued about the Jimmy G trade for a year. In the end, they claim multiple Browns beat writers, the Browns GM at the time (Sashi Brown), Adam Schefter, and numerous reports about how the trade went down, are all lies, and that the Patriots couldn't have gotten anything better than a second round pick.

 

[Deus Irae]

The worst thing I keep seeing is Pats fans comparing everything to 2001. Wow, we almost beat a team, just like the Rams, wow a comeback, just like the chargers game. Hey we were 1-3, they were 1-3. It was freaking 20 years ago people with completely different players. I am not sure the fan mantra of, if something happened before that means it will happen the same way.

They also ignore the intangible realities involved with that team, such as:

• 5-13 in BB's tenure before Brady took over.
• Rules that were not as geared towards offensive production as they are today.

and don't seem to recall that Brady

finished 6th in passer rating
finished 4th in completion percentage
finished 9th in game winning drives
finished 4th in comebacks

 

[amfootball]

They also ignore the intangible realities involved with that team, such as:

• 5-13 in BB's tenure before Brady took over.
• Rules that were not as geared towards offensive production as they are today.

and don't seem to recall that Brady

finished 6th in passer rating
finished 4th in completion percentage
finished 9th in game winning drives
finished 4th in comebacks

Our offense was also 6th in scoring which is mind boggling considering Glenn played 4 games that year.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Our offense was also 6th in scoring which is mind boggling considering Glenn played 4 games that year.

bUt BrAdY's StAtS wErEn'T EvEn ThAt gOoD!

 

[VectorPrime]

There was exactly one Great receiving option on that 2001 team if you don’t count Glenn, which you shouldn’t. And you shouldn’t need two guesses to figure out who it was.

 

[Deus Irae]

W

 

[Deus Irae]

Each of the last two weeks, T Tristan Wirfs said the offensive line has had an extra meeting with QB Tom Brady to go over the run plays in the game plan.

 

[Deus Irae]

It didn't seem in question following Sunday's game in which he passed for 411 yards and five TDs, much of it after injuring his right thumb, but Tom Brady should be good to go Thursday's game at Philadelphia. "Think the thumb will be ok,'' is how one team source put it.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

developing the run game would be huge for their offense in many ways. If so they seem unstoppable offensevily

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Why Tom Brady’s 61-yard TD to Antonio Brown is one of his greatest throws

Tom Brady's 61-yard touchdown pass to Antonio Brown against the Dolphins was yet another example of his greatness.

sports.yahoo.com

we could still have that. Instead we have Nelson Agholor LOL