Cam Released

[mike_usagisan]

It does when one doesn’t establish any cause and effect.

Right. That’s my point. Some great quarterbacks played their rookie year and went on to great successes and some sat their rookie year and went on to great success. Rothlesberger, playing on a team with a great defense, well-established coaching staff and a good offensive line, had the best rookie year of anyone I can think of, and went on to even more success. The data isn’t black and white on whether you sit a rookie QB or not, so I give BB the benefit of the doubt if he thinks MacJones! is ready.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

I have a very, very hard time believing they’d let the rookie QB be a captain. It’s awesome to hear the respect he’s already earned in the locker room, but captaincy for someone who has never played an NFL regular season snap just seems far fetched.

 

[IllegalContact]

Cam wasn't ready to lead us to anything more, so I don't see the downside.

I think rookie qbs can be adversely affected if they get tossed out there too soon

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I have a very, very hard time believing they’d let the rookie QB be a captain. It’s awesome to hear the respect he’s already earned in the locker room, but captaincy for someone who has never played an NFL regular season snap just seems far fetched.

I like the idea.

This team has so many new players establishing their roles…and they just removed any type of potential locker room schism with a one QB solution.

 

[203Pat]

TBH one national NFL.COM podcast I listen to has said things like 'they waited to cut Cam till after it was clear Mac was better because they didn't want to be labelled as being racist' and the last one said something like 'they made the right choice' in a wink wink nod nod kind of way, also plenty of Welker/Amendola/Edleman jokes about favoring short white guys over the year. All three of the current guys on the podcast have NE area backgrounds, one is a Pats fan, and all know the history of Boston being perceived as being a racist town, and they work that line of thought more than one would think. Kind of surprising when it does pop up, IMO, yet it's done in a mocking way and more or less to mock people like Parker.

I listen to the podcast you're referencing and Gregg Rosenthal is from Western MA and he is the one who insinuated that Patriots fans are happier than they should be about Cam getting cut while Dan (a Jets fan from NY) responded with a slogan for the move with "Mac Jones: that's more like it". Gregg is one of those dorks who seems to go out of his way to virtue signal even when it doesn't really have anything to do with the topic.

I know it is 2021 and absolutely everything needs to be filtered though a racial lens but if every position battle is going to be judged by race then I don't know how anyone can do their jobs. I also know Boston has the "racist town" narrative as well, whether it is fair or not, but since when in Belichick's entire 21 years as a GM/coach has he done anything specifically to appease the fanbase? Like Bill (who is from Maryland) sat down and said "I really think Cam is the better option but Boston likes white guys so I want to please the fans and start Mac and cut Cam".

 

[PP2]

I have a very, very hard time believing they’d let the rookie QB be a captain. It’s awesome to hear the respect he’s already earned in the locker room, but captaincy for someone who has never played an NFL regular season snap just seems far fetched.

You're aware that captaincy isn't "decided," it's voted upon by the players of the team?

 

[Hammer of Thor]

You're aware that captaincy isn't "decided," it's voted upon by the players of the team?

I’m aware, and I’m also aware that the Patriots don’t let anyone become captain that the coaches don’t approve of…..

 

[mike_usagisan]

You're aware that captaincy isn't "decided," it's voted upon by the players of the team?

Do captains have any special responsibilities? I always assumed it was an honorary thing.

 

[Deus Irae]

Right. That’s my point. Some great quarterbacks played their rookie year and went on to great successes and some sat their rookie year and went on to great success. Rothlesberger, playing on a team with a great defense, well-established coaching staff and a good offensive line, had the best rookie year of anyone I can think of, and went on to even more success. The data isn’t black and white on whether you sit a rookie QB or not, so I give BB the benefit of the doubt if he thinks MacJones! is ready.

Context is always going to matter, and that applies both ways. People who point to Roethlisberger as a winner in his rookie season like to ignore context as well (as you point out). The reality of that Steelers team is that they were just a team in need of a QB who wouldn't wet himself. In 2001, they won 13 games with Cordell Stewart as the QB. In 2002, Tommy Maddox took over, and the next two seasons were 10 wins and 6 wins. The 10 win season got them Polamalu and Ike Taylor, which would pay off handsomely. The defense went from 16th in 2002, to 15th in 2003, to 1st once Troy had a season under his belt. So Big Ben's rookie year is an excellent story, and an excellent data point, but it's not anything definitive.

But whether posters like it or not, and fully acknowledging that exceptions exist, rookie QBs drafted in the first round tend to play like rookie QBs, not like quality NFL QBs. And we all know it around here, because we see how BB tortures them when he plays against them. But that gets ignored when there's an agenda involved.

So let's hope that Jones, who's been extraordinarily well prepared and looks to be highly advanced in areas critical to the success of a QB in a Patriots style system, is an exception.

 

[jdlboot14]

Maybe now that Mac is the guy, Edelman could come out of retirement to play with a QB that can actually hit him between the numbers and won't throw him into injuries. Just a dream.

 

[Lavictoire]

I was thinking they were hanging on to Cam because Mac is not 100% with that brace. If Mac goes down, Hoyer will get enough rope to do himself in and make the crowds cry for Stidham who may surprise us!

 

[RobertWeathers]

STFU

yea he does need to STFU. Big reason why he wasn't paid here.

Welker is also in that catagory

 

[Steve102]

My standard reply to those comments on social media is as follows. Either:

1) No.

Or…

2) His name is Robert Paulson.

His coverage skills weren’t poor at all. He just took too many chances by trying to jump routes which made him susceptible to double moves. Sometimes it worked spectacularly, sometimes he got burned. But when we’re talking straight man to man coverage, Samuel was solid.

He was solid, thought he was better than he was. He was second tier. Too bad he holds such a grudge.

STFU

If he caught that ball, he'd be immortal. He would have gotten paid like a #1 and would have deserved it. IMO, Elite HoF CBs make that play. He didn't, and wasn't. I agree with you. Dude, shut your mouth.

 

[PP2]

I’m aware, and I’m also aware that the Patriots don’t let anyone become captain that the coaches don’t approve of…..

Never seen that sort of thing before with the Patriots.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Right. That’s my point. Some great quarterbacks played their rookie year and went on to great successes and some sat their rookie year and went on to great success. Rothlesberger, playing on a team with a great defense, well-established coaching staff and a good offensive line, had the best rookie year of anyone I can think of, and went on to even more success. The data isn’t black and white on whether you sit a rookie QB or not, so I give BB the benefit of the doubt if he thinks MacJones! is ready.

I've seen that analysis and it's flawed. Sure one can make it seem like nobody knows (same as if Tobacco causes cancer or if CO2 influences the climate). That analysis included a ton of scrubs like Casey Keenum etc to say "see! there's no difference in waiting a year or not". Um, no. Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, Brady are arguably the 4 best since Manning with the exception of maybe Big Ben. I will give you that, Big Ben is the outlier but Mac isn't a 6'6 250 pound guy who can improvise when things break down.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Context is always going to matter, and that applies both ways. People who point to Roethlisberger as a winner in his rookie season like to ignore context as well (as you point out). The reality of that Steelers team is that they were just a team in need of a QB who wouldn't wet himself. In 2001, they won 13 games with Cordell Stewart as the QB. In 2002, Tommy Maddox took over, and the next two seasons were 10 wins and 6 wins. The 10 win season got them Polamalu and Ike Taylor, which would pay off handsomely. The defense went from 16th in 2002, to 15th in 2003, to 1st once Troy had a season under his belt. So Big Ben's rookie year is an excellent story, and an excellent data point, but it's not anything definitive.

But whether posters like it or not, and fully acknowledging that exceptions exist, rookie QBs drafted in the first round tend to play like rookie QBs, not like quality NFL QBs. And we all know it around here, because we see how BB tortures them when he plays against them. But that gets ignored when there's an agenda involved.

So let's hope that Jones, who's been extraordinarily well prepared and looks to be highly advanced in areas critical to the success of a QB in a Patriots style system, is an exception.

Oh, absolutely. Big Ben was damn lucky to end up on that team. But over the years, he’s also proven to be an elite passer.

But you’re right that rookies are going to make rookie mistakes. Peyton’s first year was a nightmare. Hell, we saw that with Brady in 2001 when he was in his second year. And I think posters need to reacquaint themselves with Brady’s first year of play. It started rough! Every quarterback goes through growing pains.

Unfortunately, I think we’re only going to know in retrospect whether starting Mac his rookie year was a good thing or not. But he seems to learn from his mistakes quickly and turn the page when he makes a mistake. I think it’ll be fun watching him develop this year.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I've seen that analysis and it's flawed. Sure one can make it seem like nobody knows (same as if Tobacco causes cancer or if CO2 influences the climate). That analysis included a ton of scrubs like Casey Keenum etc to say "see! there's no difference in waiting a year or not". Um, no. Mahomes, Brees, Rodgers, Brady are arguably the 4 best since Manning with the exception of maybe Big Ben. I will give you that, Big Ben is the outlier but Mac isn't a 6'6 250 pound guy who can improvise when things break down.

Part of the problem is that not only don’t we have the data to prove you correct, how do we even define the argument? Like, are we saying Brady wouldn’t have won a SuperBowl in 2001 if he had played in 2000? Or are we saying that he wouldn’t have won it in 2000? Because no crap, he wasn’t winning it in 2000 with the Patriots. No one could have gotten that ship pointed in the right direction. And no one could possibly know if he still would have won in 2001 if he played in 2000. These are purely hypothetical arguments.

Are we saying Peyton Manning would have won more if he hadn’t played his rookie year? Like, how could we ever know that? It seemed like Corey Dillon running all over their defense was a bigger hindrance than whatever happened in Peyton’s rookie season.

I understand that Brady,etc. say it was good for them to sit. I just don’t know what that means in terms of their future success or the success of their teams.

 

[Bill Lee]

I listen to the podcast you're referencing and Gregg Rosenthal is from Western MA and he is the one who insinuated that Patriots fans are happier than they should be about Cam getting cut while Dan (a Jets fan from NY) responded with a slogan for the move with "Mac Jones: that's more like it". Gregg is one of those dorks who seems to go out of his way to virtue signal even when it doesn't really have anything to do with the topic.

Thanks, you captured it well. The stuff I was referring to in my first sentence was a few pods ago, when they were debating the Mac-Cam thing. I was quite surprised to hear Gregg say perceptions of racism may have been part of the decision process. I'm fairly sure he was saying that in a mocking way, but you never know.

I will point out (and you may already know) Marc was raised in the Danbury CT area. He's made references to hanging out as a teenager at the Danbury Mall. Seems I have some similarities to him, although I was in my late teens when the mall was built and was in my 20s when I was working in the Danbury area, many moons ago. Marc is one of the few people on the air that has a "Connecticut accent" if there is such a thing. He says certain things certain ways and I say to myself "he's one of my people".

I don't really know if there's a CT accent. I've traveled a bit and no one has ever said "hey, you must be from CT". People have a hard time placing me. They know I'm from the US, but beyond that, they really don't know. I've googled it a bit and at best there are a few pronunciations one can pick up on. For instance we tend to say Grotin not Groton, the 'tin' for 'ton' thing is one of the few giveaways.

I know it is 2021 and absolutely everything needs to be filtered though a racial lens but if every position battle is going to be judged by race then I don't know how anyone can do their jobs. I also know Boston has the "racist town" narrative as well, whether it is fair or not, but since when in Belichick's entire 21 years as a GM/coach has he done anything specifically to appease the fanbase? Like Bill (who is from Maryland) sat down and said "I really think Cam is the better option but Boston likes white guys so I want to please the fans and start Mac and cut Cam".

I think it'd be more along the lines of "I need a good reason to cut Cam and keep Mac otherwise people will say I'm racist". I truly don't believe anything of the sort, but we are talking about perceptions not reality.

 

[rochrist]

Why do we bend over backwards to defend the honor of like, one of the worst QBs to ever play for the Patriots for one season?

Because attacking his playing ability is one thing, attacking his character is an entirely different one.

 

[rochrist]

Not that year

How many SBs has Cam won again?