Patriots-Eagles Joint Practice (8/16)

[NormZauchin]

There's something to the "defenses not knowing how to defend us" claim though....but what I saw was a decisive QB who saw that there were no options other than taking off and running or throwing the ball to reliable Edelman. That Newton can win games in the NFL. He's the same guy that is 2-0 against the Brady Patriots. The COVID brain fog was a real thing, IMO. That coupled with losing targets in Edelman, later Burkhead, White having an off year, and etc.... just snowballed.....

But that's just my opinion. I disagree that it was a myth. And I also am not denying that Cam still has not looked better yet in camp as well....

Same guy that was 2-0 against the Patriots because of a non-call of pass interference against Gronk by Kuechly.

 

[Hyped]

Could you give the link where you got those stats? I seem to remember Cam being in the wrong place many times and that didn't help the pass pro.. Be it RB or otherwise.

Patriots roster breakdown: James White continues to be a key member of New England’s offense

Our offseason series continues with a close look at the veteran running back.

www.patspulpit.com

Relevant excerpt (3rd paragraph under "What did his 2020 season look like?":

On top of it all, he also was shaky at times as a pass protector: White surrendered 10 quarterback pressures, including four sacks. For comparison, only one member of the offensive line — Jermaine Eluemunor — gave up more sacks than that.

 

[Hyped]

Same guy that was 2-0 against the Patriots because of a non-call of pass interference against Gronk by Kuechly.

If my aunt had a ----, she would be my uncle....

 

[patfanken]

PFK - Love you man. While Brady did occasionally lead a receiver into a hit, it was extremely rare. The pass today that led LaCosse into a hit was the 4th one in less than a year for Cam that has led to injury. There were more than a few last year that we lucked out that Meyers wasn't injured.

The difference between Brady and Cam is night and day. If Brady made 2 dozen of those throws in his entire time with the Pats, I'd be amazed. And it' not the media recognizing it. It's the FANS. And we're the ones seeing it pretty regularly from Cam. It's because of his lack of field awareness.

I'm certainly not comparing them as Brady was the more accurate passer. But that wasn't always the case. People here forget when he wasn't like the FIVE pick playoff game vs Denver. God forbid if Cam had a 3 pick game. It happens. I'm not condoning it or the other throws you mentioned. Listen, DB, it wasn't so much the throw, but the tenor of the criticism. Far too harsh for the infraction. Just more proof that too many fans are looking for anything to discredit Newton. If Jones had made the same throw those same fans would come out and said it was unfortunate, but applaud Jones for his accurate throw. You know that's true.

 

[zydecochris]

4. Well, no **** Sony Michel can catch the ball. And he's superb when running past the line of scrimmage. Duh. yet another example of not using the guy to his strengths for years (anytime he was in the game, you knew he was running, which helped nothing - that was the most frustrating part of the New England Pats for me over the last few years). I always thought Sony would shift from main guy to become the next James White type on the Pats.

To your point about Sony Michel catching the ball: the lack of deception with RB involvement in the passing game has baffled me for years. All the way back to the Blount days, if he (Blount) was in the backfield usually meant a running play and White in the backfield usually meant a pass, so the defense knew what to expect.

Then we draft Sony Michel, and I think: "At last!, a dual purpose RB!". At Georgia Michel was very effective in the running game and he was an effective pass catcher and reportedly was a good pass blocker. So he comes to the Patriots and he is used almost solely as a runner with White as the pass catcher, to my surprise.

Then we draft Damien Harris who I had watched carefully at Alabama and I thought, "well, I was wrong about Michel, but Harris is definitely someone who can be extremely effective in both the run and pass game, I saw it myself!" He is an excellent runner (as we saw last year) and at Alabama he was a very effective pass catcher and a really excellent (not just good) blocker. So I think, "finally a true dual purpose run-pass RB!". But, once again contrary to my expectations, he has had little involvement in the passing game, so once again I was 100% wrong.

I guess this shows why I am such a lousy prognosticator when it comes to the Pats. So can anyone explain why guys like Michel and Harris haven't been used in the pass game to improve our run-pass deception? It is simply that White is just so amazing in the passing game that he is the go-to in the passing game?

 

[NormZauchin]

If my aunt had a ----, she would be my uncle....

Yeah, and if Cam has egregiously bad calls go his way all season, he'll be 17-0.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm certainly not comparing them as Brady was the more accurate passer. But that wasn't always the case. People here forget when he wasn't like the FIVE pick playoff game vs Denver. God forbid if Cam had a 3 pick game. It happens. I'm not condoning it or the other throws you mentioned. Listen, DB, it wasn't so much the throw, but the tenor of the criticism. Far too harsh for the infraction. Just more proof that too many fans are looking for anything to discredit Newton. If Jones had made the same throw those same fans would come out and said it was unfortunate, but applaud Jones for his accurate throw. You know that's true.

Why would you think people are looking for reasons to discredit Newton. I mean all you have to do is roll the tape, what reason would anyone have to try to exaggerate beyond that?

 

[patfanken]

You had a giant hissy fit post a few weeks ago declaring how everyone is a hater/stupid if they’re pessimistic on Cam before he has a chance to perform in training camp.

Now that Cam is the same in camp as we said he was…you claim the media has an agenda and can’t be trusted because of their bias against Cam.

Jesus.

A meaningless statement that‘s always thrown in for self-credibility, like a stamp of authenticity. Translation: I’m very opinionated; how dare you be opinionated since you’re not Bill and don’t know his thought process.

Talk about a hissy fit, your the one who needs some Ice Ice. Whatever the media is saying the fact remains that Newton has improved on his knowledge of the offensive system. He IS making his share of good throws, but you'd hardly know it. You know that this is early. Jones isn't seeing anything really that he will see in a defense that prepared all week for what the Pats do. And then all the DIFFERENT defensive systems that people run week to week.

Brady saw this in the QB room and practice for a full year before he became a starter. Brady WAS a game manager early on for years (my demarcation point where he went from a game manager to game difference maker was the 2004 superbowl game) That's a full 4 years for it to happen, and HE was and is the GOAT I can remember even in 2005 and 2006 there were still a lot of people who thought of him as a game manager. It wasn't until after 2007 that he was universally acknowledged as ONE of the top QB's

My hope is that Jones will be the QB Chad Pennington might have been if he hadn't been injured or even better. Jones has shown that he is super smart and can process the field fast.....FOR A ROOKIE!! He will need thousands of reps before he will go from a game manager tot a difference maker. IF he starts right now I wouldn't be surprise to see veteran DC's make him look like a........rookie QB Not the savior that everyone hopes he will be. And he COULD be that guy, but not THIS year. THIS year the best we could hope is that he is a good "game manager.
+

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'm certainly not comparing them as Brady was the more accurate passer. But that wasn't always the case. People here forget when he wasn't like the FIVE pick playoff game vs Denver.

Huh? That didn’t happen.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Talk about a hissy fit, your the one who needs some Ice Ice. Whatever the media is saying the fact remains that Newton has improved on his knowledge of the offensive system.

You don’t know seem to know what a fact is. Nothing in reality supports your assertion.

He IS making his share of good throws, but you'd hardly know it. You know that this is early.

Early? Their opener is in three weeks.

Jones isn't seeing anything really that he will see in a defense that prepared all week for what the Pats do. And then all the DIFFERENT defensive systems that people run week to week.

Brady saw this in the QB room and practice for a full year before he became a starter. Brady WAS a game manager early on for years (my demarcation point where he went from a game manager to game difference maker was the 2004 superbowl game. That's a full 4 years for it to happen, and HE was and is the GOAT

The only game manager in the history of the league who was widely regarded at the time as a top 3 QB, won numerous accolades, MVP votes, etc. Got it.

My hope is that Jones will be the QB Chad Pennington might have been if he hadn't been injured or even better. Jones has shown that he is super smart and can process the field fast.....FOR A ROOKIE!! He will need thousands of reps before he will go from a game manager tot a difference maker. IF he starts right now I wouldn't be surprise to see veteran DC's make him look like a........rookie QB Not the savior that everyone hopes he will be. And he COULD be that guy, but not THIS year. THIS year the best we could hope is that he is a good "game manager.
+

You claim Bill will make the right decision, and you claim Jones isn’t ready. So I guess there's nothing to worry about, right?

 

[Ring 6]

To your point about Sony Michel catching the ball: the lack of deception with RB involvement in the passing game has baffled me for years. All the way back to the Blount days, if he (Blount) was in the backfield usually meant a running play and White in the backfield usually meant a pass, so the defense knew what to expect.

Then we draft Sony Michel, and I think: "At last!, a dual purpose RB!". At Georgia Michel was very effective in the running game and he was an effective pass catcher and reportedly was a good pass blocker. So he comes to the Patriots and he is used almost solely as a runner with White as the pass catcher, to my surprise.

Then we draft Damien Harris who I had watched carefully at Alabama and I thought, "well, I was wrong about Michel, but Harris is definitely someone who can be extremely effective in both the run and pass game, I saw it myself!" He is an excellent runner (as we saw last year) and at Alabama he was a very effective pass catcher and a really excellent (not just good) blocker. So I think, "finally a true dual purpose run-pass RB!". But, once again contrary to my expectations, he has had little involvement in the passing game, so once again I was 100% wrong.

I guess this shows why I am such a lousy prognosticator when it comes to the Pats. So can anyone explain why guys like Michel and Harris haven't been used in the pass game to improve our run-pass deception? It is simply that White is just so amazing in the passing game that he is the go-to in the passing game?

Down and distance is a better indicator of play prediction than which rb is in the game. When you have run personnel in the game you aren’t going to call plays to throw to the rb very often.
Michel has played 921 snaps and carried 535 times or 58%. Given the down and distance that he is on the field for that is very normal. In those down and distances you are trying to use the 42% pass ratio to get the ball up the field to wrs.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Huh? That didn’t happen.

Yes hes confused. He threw 4 picks @ DEN in the 2001 reg season

 

[Ring 6]

Talk about a hissy fit, your the one who needs some Ice Ice. Whatever the media is saying the fact remains that Newton has improved on his knowledge of the offensive system. He IS making his share of good throws, but you'd hardly know it. You know that this is early. Jones isn't seeing anything really that he will see in a defense that prepared all week for what the Pats do. And then all the DIFFERENT defensive systems that people run week to week.

Brady saw this in the QB room and practice for a full year before he became a starter. Brady WAS a game manager early on for years (my demarcation point where he went from a game manager to game difference maker was the 2004 superbowl game) That's a full 4 years for it to happen, and HE was and is the GOAT I can remember even in 2005 and 2006 there were still a lot of people who thought of him as a game manager. It wasn't until after 2007 that he was universally acknowledged as ONE of the top QB's

My hope is that Jones will be the QB Chad Pennington might have been if he hadn't been injured or even better. Jones has shown that he is super smart and can process the field fast.....FOR A ROOKIE!! He will need thousands of reps before he will go from a game manager tot a difference maker. IF he starts right now I wouldn't be surprise to see veteran DC's make him look like a........rookie QB Not the savior that everyone hopes he will be. And he COULD be that guy, but not THIS year. THIS year the best we could hope is that he is a good "game manager.
+

A game manager who can make accurate on time throws is a tremendous improvement over newton.
Newton still processes drop back pass progressions, reads and decisions like a rookie (actually worse than many rookies).
Other than running in from the 1 what does newton do better than Jones even at this stage. In terms of processing and decision making from the pocket newton is the liability. That’s why HE was no more than a game manager who they were afraid to let throw much last year.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm certainly not comparing them as Brady was the more accurate passer. But that wasn't always the case. People here forget when he wasn't like the FIVE pick playoff game vs Denver. God forbid if Cam had a 3 pick game. It happens. I'm not condoning it or the other throws you mentioned. Listen, DB, it wasn't so much the throw, but the tenor of the criticism. Far too harsh for the infraction. Just more proof that too many fans are looking for anything to discredit Newton. If Jones had made the same throw those same fans would come out and said it was unfortunate, but applaud Jones for his accurate throw. You know that's true.

Wait did you just say that based upon one game with 4 Ints, that newton is/was ever a more accurate qb than Tom Brady? Really?

 

[AQPE]

For New England, Mike is a dual threat....

OT: when I read the words “New England Mike” on this forum I immediately get a headache and shudder at the thought that the words “newsletter“ “slant passes” and “Holovak” will be next. <insert memory of the bricks emoji here>

 

[italian pat patriot]

Yes hes confused. He threw 4 picks @ DEN in the 2001 reg season

I think he never had 5 picks in 1 single game in all his Nfl career

 

[oldrover]

I think he never had 5 picks in 1 single game in all his Nfl career

 

[Zuma]

 

[DaBruinz]

Patriots roster breakdown: James White continues to be a key member of New England’s offense

Our offseason series continues with a close look at the veteran running back.

www.patspulpit.com

Relevant excerpt (3rd paragraph under "What did his 2020 season look like?":

On top of it all, he also was shaky at times as a pass protector: White surrendered 10 quarterback pressures, including four sacks. For comparison, only one member of the offensive line — Jermaine Eluemunor — gave up more sacks than that.

Appreciate it..

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm certainly not comparing them as Brady was the more accurate passer. But that wasn't always the case. People here forget when he wasn't like the FIVE pick playoff game vs Denver. God forbid if Cam had a 3 pick game. It happens. I'm not condoning it or the other throws you mentioned. Listen, DB, it wasn't so much the throw, but the tenor of the criticism. Far too harsh for the infraction. Just more proof that too many fans are looking for anything to discredit Newton. If Jones had made the same throw those same fans would come out and said it was unfortunate, but applaud Jones for his accurate throw. You know that's true.

If Jones had made that throw, I'd be just as upset over losing another TE. I'd say, Jones can't make those throws. He's gonna get someone killed. Just like I said about Cam. It's not harsh to get upset over a player (Cam) making the same mistake over and over again and HURTING the team both the short and long terms. The difference between Jones and Cam, at this point, is that Cam has made several of those over a short period of time and has cost the team because we've had players lost for numerous games. It remains to be seen if LaCosse is lost for any length of time, but the fact that we're already down to 2 HEALTHY TEs (Fumagalli and Asiasi) is alarming. This team can't afford for Cam to lead Henry or Smith into a hit that could cost them the multiple games.

It's not a matter of looking for "anything" to discredit him. It's a matter of just something else that makes him a bad fit for this team.