****** First exhibition game postgame thread ******

[KDPPatsfan85]

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I know TB12 is an outlier but curious to know how did he look like in his preseason debut back then? I was only 9 at the time just wanted to see if there's any comparison with Mac

I think Brady went 3 for 4 in his first preseason game against San Fran.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

This is absolutely impressive work by Mac. He had command of the plays and is throwing before receivers make their route break. The anticipation is key to being a successful NFL QB and he has it. Very bullish on the kid. Just want to make sure we don't rush him or harm his development or his 15 year time horizon.


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[Gumby]

RE: Nordin.

The XP from the 15 yard line is new for him. Yes, it's just a chip shot FG, but it's still different than what he did in College. I don't expect it to be an issue as things go along. Especially since he's completely changed how he goes about FGs now. This was something he mentioned in interviews. That in college, he didn't pace off, EXACTLY, how he lined up for kicks. The Patriots taught him how to pace off EXACTLY (down to the inch) and it's a new habit for him. The difference in his accuracy is there, though and I expect that, along with Bailey, he'll become a new weapon for the Pats.

this is amazing to me. I would have thought folks did that down to HS. That a big time college team would let their kicker just line up willy nilly. ???

 

[Gumby]

Hall of Fame Game rewind: A look back at Tom Brady’s NFL debut in 2000 (usatoday.com)

Nice video blast from past

I think Brady went 3 for 4 in his first preseason game against San Fran.

Yeah not one of 4 more than 10 yards (including 2 te/rb rollouts to the right flat)
so nothing showing any great strength; but accuracy there. The one inc was „Shockmain“ Davis stepping out of bounds w 2 foot for no reason.

* Funny no-name blast from past there for 1000 Alex. Haha.

 

[PScottman]

This is absolutely impressive work by Mac. He had command of the plays and is throwing before receivers make their route break. The anticipation is key to being a successful NFL QB and he has it. Very bullish on the kid. Just want to make sure we don't rush him or harm his development or his 15 year time horizon.


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Is it just me or in the picture on the current PatsFans home splash page:

Patriots News August 15, Newcomers Shine in Preseason Debut​

Doesn't Mac look about 35 years old? The Pats just picked the kid and he's already prematurely aging.

 

[scott99]

No...it is not. Try "What Does Freedom Of Expression Mean?" when you get around to it.

Yeah, not going to waste my time with this. If you want to say something, say it. “Just Do It”.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Personally, I think that 40-yard lob pass is one of the worst ways to judge Mac’s arm strength. Any college QB can lob a rainbow pass down the sideline like that. It was a nice throw, but those passes are often more about the receiver, the coverage, including incidental contact, and even the luck involved in that .01 window when things like the wind come into play. Bottom line is: it just isn’t the type of pass/result that’s often replicated exactly as before because of the randomness. I think the longer the ball is in the air, the less it has to do with the quarterback and the more it has to do with luck and external factors.

I believe Brady led the league on deep passes last year, which makes sense because it’s about the WRs more than anything…but he was still in the 40% range. That’s the thing…these are all kind of random lobs.

The first throw to Jakobi, which was a catch though ruled incomplete, was not a great pass and that’s exactly the type of arm strength that’s critical…the ball didn’t carry quite far enough. But it was still close enough for him to make a great catch and that may have more to do with mechanics/timing, etc.

This is the type of pass where arm strength matters. If you don’t have it, this is probably an INT.

It's his velocity that needs some work. And it's literally been talked about a ton pre-draft. It didn't magically disappear in months bc he put on a NEP uni. Idk why that makes some posters uncomfortable but it needs to & most certainly will improve over time. To pretend it isn't there is just burying your head in the sand and not how the real world works. You don't run from issues. They're the first thing you challenge on certain days. It reminds of some posters or fans that want Mac to sit for a few weeks for w/e reason. Almost like they're trying to protect from the stands or couch.

Back to the velocity issues. Like you mentioned, looking at a 50 yard pass isn't it. It's the NFL, most position coaches can toss it 50+ with ease. Literally the last thing you want to look at but we have posters here that need some help apparently.

When Mac is set, like that pass against Kentucky, easily one of his best passes in college for him. He can generate a decent amount of zip. Not great but more than enough. Problem is when his feet/lower half aren't set he doesn't have the natural velocity you want. Off platform stuff where he's mostly using most core/arm is where you see the most but showed up in other areas on deep stuff. The air will just come out of the ball like the Joesph INT.



When he's not set .. The biggest advantage Mac had wasn't his WRS. Not his defense or OC. It was his OL. That gap between them and every DL they faced was a lot bigger than anything else. It'll never be that a difference in the league.



If you actually watched Mac, this isn't breaking news. Problem is most are just staring a screen, watching highlights or listening to bad evaluation and pretending they came up with it. Sadly we have a few of those types here. I had a weirdo following me around for months over what someone else/another poster said. Not to mention being stalked for pointing out his offense was essentially RPO, behind the los/screens. Not a ton of tight window passes. Makes it tough to have an honest convo but it is what it is. Some here think they have to put on a cape for professional athletes.

 

[PScottman]

It's his velocity that needs some work.

Luckily, this aspect is one more easily addressed and changeable via fundamentals, strength training, plyometrics, etc versus others like the ability to process information, decision making, and the "clutch" gene which are much more either you have or you don't in MOST cases (repetition and familiarity can increase those aspects too).

I mean guys like Pennington and Tannehill (even TB12 to a lesser extent) are examples of QBs that were able to overcome velocity concerns and be solid starters in the league. Ultimately, we don't know what Jones will be.

He can absolutely turn out to have not just flaws, but fatal ones, including velocity which has sunk others in the past. The only predictable aspect of life is unpredictability.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Luckily, this aspect is one more easily addressed and changeable via fundamentals, strength training, plyometrics, etc versus others like the ability to process information, decision making, and the "clutch" gene which are much more either you have or you don't in MOST cases (repetition and familiarity can increase those aspects too).

I mean guys like Pennington and Tannehill (even TB12 to a lesser extent) are examples of QBs that were able to overcome velocity concerns and be solid starters in the league. Ultimately, we don't know what Jones will be.

He can absolutely turn out to have not just flaws, but fatal ones, including velocity which has sunk others in the past. The only predictable aspect of life is unpredictability.

First paragraph lol ...
"It's his velocity that needs some work. And it's literally been talked about a ton pre-draft. It didn't magically disappear in months bc he put on a NEP uni. Idk why that makes some posters uncomfortable but it needs to & most certainly will improve over time"

I've mentioned it's one of the easier things a QB can improve for years and specifically in this case so posters don't cry. I should highlight it and make the font 5X's bigger though.

With respect and I'm not trying to get into a semantics game, those QB's didn't "overcome" as opposed to get better in those areas. None had the same arm as when they came into the league. Not even close in Brady's case he's been reworking and fine tuning his mechanics his entire career. That's where you see change, not so much from weight lifting or training. Follow through, launch point, footwork all are much more important. Those open up a lot more doors than strength training & plyo.

It just makes me lol when posters pretend something isn't there. People study and isolate their upper & lower half on every watch (something I do for almost every position), watch each play with a playbook next to them, talk to alums and coaches & have experience doing this for years. But a few posters that started watching him 2 months before the draft is who we should be listening to.

Like I've been saying for months it's not a deal breaker but something that needs work for sure.

*edit* i might be focusing on "overcome" too much in the sense that the problem was still there, didn't get better and they just made it work in other areas.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

It absolutely 100% was Young's technique- he himself said that he spent all off-season working on his hands. That was a mean punch-dip he laid on Wynn.

Wasn't a "punch" though. If you look the play Young's hand is open wide trying to get ahold of Wynn to rip him forward with his inside hand. He doesn't get a great piece of Wyyn but enough. Outside clears hands before dipping out.


Here's the video ... Snatch with inside, clears hands with outside before dipping out. .

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It's his velocity that needs some work. And it's literally been talked about a ton pre-draft. It didn't magically disappear in months bc he put on a NEP uni. Idk why that makes some posters uncomfortable but it needs to & most certainly will improve over time. To pretend it isn't there is just burying your head in the sand and not how the real world works. You don't run from issues. They're the first thing you challenge on certain days. It reminds of some posters or fans that want Mac to sit for a few weeks for w/e reason. Almost like they're trying to protect from the stands or couch.

Back to the velocity issues. Like you mentioned, looking at a 50 yard pass isn't it. It's the NFL, most position coaches can toss it 50+ with ease. Literally the last thing you want to look at but we have posters here that need some help apparently.

When Mac is set, like that pass against Kentucky, easily one of his best passes in college for him. He can generate a decent amount of zip. Not great but more than enough. Problem is when his feet/lower half aren't set he doesn't have the natural velocity you want. Off platform stuff where he's mostly using most core/arm is where you see the most but showed up in other areas on deep stuff. The air will just come out of the ball like the Joesph INT.



When he's not set .. The biggest advantage Mac had wasn't his WRS. Not his defense or OC. It was his OL. That gap between them and every DL they faced was a lot bigger than anything else. It'll never be that a difference in the league.



If you actually watched Mac, this isn't breaking news. Problem is most are just staring a screen, watching highlights or listening to bad evaluation and pretending they came up with it. Sadly we have a few of those types here. I had a weirdo following me around for months over what someone else/another poster said. Not to mention being stalked for pointing out his offense was essentially RPO, behind the los/screens. Not a ton of tight window passes. Makes it tough to have an honest convo but it is what it is. Some here think they have to put on a cape for professional athletes.

Yeah…I remember you were writing about this well before the draft and going through Mac’s strengths and flaws.

It’s difficult to separate an agenda at this point. Yes, lots and lots of fans suddenly are experts, and wouldn’t you know it, everything points to sure-fire success and a great pick by their favorite team.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

With respect and I'm not trying to get into a semantics game, those QB's didn't "overcome" as opposed to get better in those areas. None had the same arm as when they came into the league. Not even close in Brady's case he's been reworking and fine tuning his mechanics his entire career. That's where you see change, not so much from weight lifting or training. Follow through, launch point, footwork all are much more important. Those open up a lot more doors than strength training & plyo.

Yes, this.

I think that Brady might have been a major league catcher is often overlooked. That lower body strength, balance, leverage is key.

Brady, an all-time great QB, was a blue chip baseball prospect, but not as a pitcher.

Elway, 2nd round pick by the Yankees in 1981. Pitcher? Nope…outfielder.

Kyler Murray, 9th overall by the A’s. Shortstop/second base.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Luckily, this aspect is one more easily addressed and changeable via fundamentals, strength training, plyometrics, etc versus others like the ability to process information, decision making, and the "clutch" gene which are much more either you have or you don't in MOST cases (repetition and familiarity can increase those aspects too).

I mean guys like Pennington and Tannehill (even TB12 to a lesser extent) are examples of QBs that were able to overcome velocity concerns and be solid starters in the league. Ultimately, we don't know what Jones will be.

He can absolutely turn out to have not just flaws, but fatal ones, including velocity which has sunk others in the past. The only predictable aspect of life is unpredictability.

Brady got way better as a player compared to what he was in 2000 and 2001. His throwing velocity improved working multiple years with Tom House the mechanics coach. QBs have a lot of improvement needed in order to be upper echelon NFL players. In 2001 Tom was a 160-yard-per-game passer.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yes, this.

I think that Brady might have been a major league catcher is often overlooked. That lower body strength, balance, leverage is key.

Brady, an all-time great QB, was a blue chip baseball prospect, but not as a pitcher.

Elway, 2nd round pick by the Yankees in 1981. Pitcher? Nope…outfielder.

Kyler Murray, 9th overall by the A’s. Shortstop/second base.

Both of Mac's parents were pro tennis players and the kid also has the same good shifty moves to buy time in the pocket.

.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

 

[PScottman]

With respect and I'm not trying to get into a semantics game, those QB's didn't "overcome" as opposed to get better in those areas.

Agree...by 'overcome' I simply meant quieting the media and/or scouting descriptions you alluded to through working to correct, demonstrating they were not actually an issue through more empirical data (i.e. more game film) or "living with" until it was no longer a story. I think we're violently agreeing past each other if I read your response correctly.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

Jones needs way more velocity on his passes .

last Thing we want is a Pennington

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Disagree.
Pennington sans injuries would be good enough to be a decent post season QB.
Do i hope/fantasize that Jones would be > Chad? Of course.

 

[patfanken]

Jones needs way more velocity on his passes .

last Thing we want is a Pennington

I think the Pennington comparison is a REALLY good one. Pennington came into the league with a mediocre arm and an elite brain. Don't compare the Pennington who led the Dolphins to a couple of decent seasons., That was a Pennington who had major arm injury and had lost even more velocity than he had prior to it. Pennington never had the opportunity that Brady had to develop his body and mechanics and improve his velocity as we saw.

Jones DOESN'T have the elite arm strength that Lance, Lawrence, etc have. But I say SO WHAT!!!! He does look like he has elite MIND strength and looking at the 2 deep passes he got to throw, he has enough of an arm to do what he needs to do to run this offense. PLUS he has EVERY chance to improve that arm strength just like Brady did. Something Pennington never got to do because of his injury.

We should understand, we are NOT replacing the GOAT with another GOAT. We should all hope that we are getting someone who will develop into a solid starter who can be part of some championship teams. Kind of a Philip Rivers who plays for a much better organization.