Rumor: Some Patriots Players Have Doubts About Cam Newton

[moosekill]

That's so wrong...you think you're smarter than a coach who won six rings. If Bill thinks Mac should start, Mac will start.

For you to sit there and form an opinion about what Bill should do? You sound like a spoiled fan. Go follow another team.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Saying I hope that Mac is ready to start makes me somehow smarter than his coach.

Once again a really stupid post by you. If you are a kid let me know and I'll stop picking on you, otherwise, you are an idiot.

 

[moosekill]

It isn't worth it Ring, the same 4 or 5 posters come in on every discussion. The mods let them play last year and are letting them do it again, it is sad that this board has come down to this.

 

[Kontradiction]

I didn’t say otherwise but some of his success came from Belichick’s coaching.

Sure. You can say that about every successful athlete ever. Brady’s own work on his craft and his body dwarfs Belichick’s coaching by a substantial amount when it comes to reasons for his success. It’s actually not even remotely close.

 

[Pats2000]

I think we are actually on the same page. I do think both can be done. Most smart GMs ensure they have the QB of the future. It is not easy to find and I know Bill tried with Jimmy and Brady outlasted him. What is irksome to me and others is Bill had no plan at all. It would have seemed that Stidham might have been it but somewhere between Brady leaving and us signing Cam on June 28, Bill lost faith. Like I said, he is paid to make sure the most important position is secured and he did nothing at the position and did not extend Brady. In most people's minds he needed to do one or the other. I believe he really thought Brady was going to come back because of his close relationship with Kraft. There were reports that Bill was surprised when Brady told him and Kraft he was leaving for Tampa. But that is still on Bill for not making Brady a better offer to stay.

What is unacceptable is not our records or wins but how it all ended which has left us in a massive rebuild while Brady proved he can still win chips with a decent roster in year one literally.

Brady has realistically one more year left, MAYBE two. after that either his wife or time will run him out of the game. It seems like you're expecting a lot out of a team, to have the QB succession perfectly lined up when no one knew how long and how well Brady would play. It's difficult enough finding a good franchise QB, how many teams actually have them? Like 30%? Then you say, you have to figure that out without realizing Brady was leaving, low round draft picks, and having lots of picks stolen from you over the years.

1 mediocre year and all of a sudden we have what looks like a franchise QB. Only time will tell, but I think he's going to be top 10 within the next 2 or 3 years. To me that's an amazing turn around. We'll see how the year plays out, but BB made the hard choice, he ate a crap sandwich on the cap for a year and then turned around and had 60M to spend on free agents. How many teams have made that hard decision? How many teams had the chance to put together a run 5 years after their franchise QB left? Some of these teams have been chasing that franchise QB for 20 years. How long has it been since Jim Kelley was QB for the Bills? How about the Dolphins and Marino? What about the Broncos after Elway? They had Manning throwing ducks out there for 2 years, but outside of that. Those are generational QB's. They don't just fall out of the sky. To expect the Pats to have that guy right there when Brady leaves is a little ridiculous.

 

[Pats2000]

1) No I am not.

2) Nope. Not in the least.

Going back to your OP on this, which QB in the last 3 years could Bill have taken that would have been a great successor to Brady with the draft capital we had? Surely he's out there being successful on another team if that guy was available. So who did we miss on?

 

[Deus Irae]

It isn't worth it Ring, the same 4 or 5 posters come in on every discussion. The mods let them play last year and are letting them do it again, it is sad that this board has come down to this.

How is it possible for you to miss the irony of your post?

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Going back to your OP on this, which QB in the last 3 years could Bill have taken that would have been a great successor to Brady with the draft capital we had? Surely he's out there being successful on another team if that guy was available. So who did we miss on?

It’s easy with 20/20 hindsight after the fact to say that they were all bad. But that doesn’t change the fact that after Jimmy was traded, Bill didn’t do anything to try to find a replacement for Brady. If Bill didn’t like the talent available at QB it is even more mind boggling why he didn’t do everything in his power to keep the GOAT with no one behind him.

He did exactly the same with Gronk. Gronk threatened to retire after the Philly SB and Bill didn’t do anything regarding TE in case of Gronk retired.

Bill got caught with his pants down both times.

 

[Pats2000]

Team Bill jumps all over anyone that dare think he hasn’t drafted well as of late or that he didn’t have a post Brady backup plan. At the same time team Bill likes to make sure everyone knows that Bill drafted Brady (not really, partial credit at best) and that Brady owes Bill all he knows and acts like Brady was just some cog on the wheel. Brady wasn’t Lawyer Milloy. He wasn’t Richard Seymour. He was (is) bigger than the team. He was the most important piece of the best dynasty in NFL history and Team Bill likes to act like he was only Tom Brady because of Bill. So far Brady without Bill looks much better than Bill without Brady.

So you're saying that Brady, the guy who averaged around 230 to 250 yards a game and less than 30 TD's a year for the first 6 years of his career didn't get any help from BB? He didn't learn anything from the GOAT coach that he's been able to take and use on his next team? Remember all the arguments from Colts fans about who was the better QB, who was putting up better stats, who was the better passer? Brady benefited incredibly from spending all that time with BB and learned to see the game a different way because of his coach. You can't tell me that BB didn't have a huge impact on Brady's game.

 

[203Pat]

They are bad QBs. The discussion was QBs carrying coaches to SBs
Those teams were more about coaching than QB, including coaching up and/or limiting the role of the QB.

So their coaches really just coached those QBs up extra hard for their post season runs? The coaches didn't win rings until their QB's played better. I don't know how you're not seeing the correlation.

 

[sb1]

I didn’t say otherwise but some of his success came from Belichick’s coaching.

All of Bill's success as a HC came from his all time great QB.

That's not unusual. What was Noll without Bradshaw? Walsh without Montana?

 

[203Pat]

That's so wrong...you think you're smarter than a coach who won six rings. If Bill thinks Mac should start, Mac will start.

For you to sit there and form an opinion about what Bill should do? You sound like a spoiled fan. Go follow another team.

I wish I could "winner" this post 100x.

 

[Pats2000]

It's pretty much unquestioned at this point that Brady going to a 7-9 team that hadn't made the playoffs for 18 years and then taking them to a Superbowl championship, has put the biggest exclamation point on any arguments. Bill would do well to scrutinize why his drafts and talent developement have sucked for 8 years after Reese/O'Brien left, and push his OC who never did anything without Tom out the door.

Dude, he went to a team that had 2 1000 yard receivers, a talented tight end, and then they picked up Fournette, Gronk and AB. That's the dream team of talent right there. Of course TB took then to the superbowl.

 

[203Pat]

It isn't worth it Ring, the same 4 or 5 posters come in on every discussion. The mods let them play last year and are letting them do it again, it is sad that this board has come down to this.

Yes we should just call everyone who disagrees with us "stupid" or "idiots" in every post like you. I am sure the mods would like a football discussion (albeit a never-ending one) rather than some guy insulting everyone. You seem to complain to the mods quite a bit.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Saying I hope that Mac is ready to start makes me somehow smarter than his coach.

Not what you said.

I think/hope/pray that Mac starts the first game.

Another armchair coach/GM who thinks he knows more than Bill Belichick. If Bill deems Mac ready to start, Mac will start. We don’t need another butt hurt amateur fan telling us all he thinks Mac should start when he has no idea what Bill’s evaluation says.

You’re just mad that Bill re-signed Cam. We get it. You think Mac is better; Cam sucks. Bill’s an idiot.

There should be a sub-forum for second guessers who think they’d have more than six rings.

 

[Pats2000]

We just saw how he did this year with a coach not named Belichick. Better than Belichick's team.

Any good coach like Belichick maximizes the talent of their players and their team to give them the best chance to win. They don't carry their QB to titles. QB's however can and have carried coaches to success and championships. It's already been demonstrated.

You really think Brady could have done that with Arians if it was 2004 or 2005 Brady?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Those pieces weren't here - and Bill had to over-pay for dudes like Sanu - because his drafts weren't cutting the mustard, not because of any "win now" excuse..

Before the Sanu trade Bill didn't really invest in drafting WRs so to say his drafting of WRs sucks doesn't make sense.

If Mitchell's knees weren't ones of a 60 year old man Sanu would not have been necessary.

 

[203Pat]

So you're saying that Brady, the guy who averaged around 230 to 250 yards a game and less than 30 TD's a year for the first 6 years of his career didn't get any help from BB? He didn't learn anything from the GOAT coach that he's been able to take and use on his next team? Remember all the arguments from Colts fans about who was the better QB, who was putting up better stats, who was the better passer? Brady benefited incredibly from spending all that time with BB and learned to see the game a different way because of his coach. You can't tell me that BB didn't have a huge impact on Brady's game.

I hate using stats from the early 2000's when in comparison to now. It is hardly even the same game anymore. Brady led the league in passing TDs with 28 in 2002. You know where that would have put him last year? 11th. The first 5 years of Brady's career on average about 3 QB's would pass for over 4000 yards. And last year? 12. Brady's stats were good to very good his first 6 years. He wasn't putting up Peyton Manning numbers but his numbers were nothing to laugh at.

I never said Bill didn't have a huge impact on Brady. Brady definitely benefited from having one coach and one of the best defensive minds of all time for his whole career here. With that being said I still think Bill benefited much more from Brady than Brady did from Bill. I think with Brady's drive and determination he would have ended up somewhere and while there is no chance he ends up with 7 rings I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up with one or two. Bill on the other hand may have been out of a job by the end of 2001 and destined to a career as a great coordinator.

 

[moosekill]

How is it possible for you to miss the irony of your post?

Deus, I respected you as a poster for years and years. I didn't always agree and thought you were kind of well maybe a bit caustic at times, but I always respected you. You called out you were going to leave the board as soon as Tom left, and you decided not to. Sadly now you have to rely on ice ice, 203 and am to team up to complain about the Patriots and talk about Brady. Disappointing but I guess that is life on a football message board.

 

[203Pat]

Deus, I respected you as a poster for years and years. I didn't always agree and thought you were kind of well maybe a bit caustic at times, but I always respected you. You called out you were going to leave the board as soon as Tom left, and you decided not to. Sadly now you have to rely on ice ice, 203 and am to team up to complain about the Patriots and talk about Brady. Disappointing but I guess that is life on a football message board.

Deus has finally done it. He flew too close to the sun and like Icarus came crashing back down to earth and has lost the respect of the esteemed Moosekill.

 

[moosekill]

Not what you said.

I think/hope/pray that Mac starts the first game.

Another armchair coach/GM who thinks he knows more than Bill Belichick. If Bill deems Mac ready to start, Mac will start. We don’t need another butt hurt amateur fan telling us all he thinks Mac should start when he has no idea what Bill’s evaluation says.

You’re just mad that Bill re-signed Cam. We get it. You think Mac is better; Cam sucks. Bill’s an idiot.

There should be a sub-forum for second guessers which think they’d have more than six rings.

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about at this point, sorry. I hope the Patriots win the Superbowl, I hope the Patriots go undefeated, and I hope Mac Jones is good enough to start as the team's QB. Can't make it simpler than that. Perhaps I could use smaller words, or draw pictures for you?