Asante goes off on Bill/Pats organization

[TheRainMaker]

On Chandler Jones, it's probably because of the NFL's collective bargaining agreement. His drug was legal. So, I'm guessing the union would have argued he had an adverse reaction to a legal drug.

That still was an embarrassing incident that was public. And as I mentioned above, he barely practiced.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Jumping back into the Malcom Butler argument, I've asked this many times but always followed by crickets. Chandler Jones was found at a Police Station parking lot high as a kite praying shirtless. He was then taken to a hospital and released on Thursday yet he played on Sunday vs the Chiefs in the 2015 AFCDG. Why is that?

Also, if this were Tom Brady "sick" and not having a "good week of practice" or not "100% locked in", would BB bench him? Of course not so that goes against Bill treating players equally.

Do you want a response just to argue it or do you want a response to hear a different view than yours?

Bill said Malcolm's benching was not discipline- related. Take note of that.

Jones was not arrested nor did he violate the NFL substance abuse policy therefor no punishment was warranted. We can therefor conclude he put his time in to prepare for the KC game.

I'm sure in Bill's estimation Tom was always prepared so the scenario you present is a hypothetical as it never happened. He may have been sick but got himself physically and mentally ready to play on Sunday.

Based on that we can therefore conclude Malcolm's benching was related to his lack preparation leading up to the game and mental unpreparedness which put him as such a severe disadvantage to the point the coaching staff did not have confidence in him.

All Bill cares about is if players are ready for the game. Malcolm wasn't.

Nothing more to it.

 

[Deus Irae]

In 2015 Chandler Jones was arguably their best defender, in 2017 Malcolm Butler was unquestionably their worst starting defender... pretty simple.

You're burying yourself.


First rule of holes.

 

[Wozzy]

But that goes against Bill's way of doing things. Jones gets a pass because he's the "best defender" so it's okay to slack off as long as you're good? He barely practiced. As far as Butler goes, Rowe was the graded the worst CB in the NFL and the Eagles made it public they were going to target him.

Jones didn't slack off, his performance didn't slip. BB said the Butler decision was a football decision. Butler wasn't good in 2017 to begin with, largely because he was moaning about his contract and he isn't athletic enough where he could slack off in the least, he was an effort guy.

"2017 was a tough year for Butler. Among all cornerbacks, he regressed slightly, finishing with a 79.2 overall grade, ranking 51st being ranking fifth in 2016 and 18th in 2015. He also gave up six touchdowns in his coverage, tying for third-most at the position, while also yielding the 11th-most yards at 698 and ranking 108th in yards after the catch at 233."

These Malcolm Butler stats might help explain his Super Bowl benching

It's been very easy for the media and fans to question Bill Belichick's decision to bench Malcolm Butler in Super Bowl LII, because the game was a defensive nightmare for both teams. Had the Patriots been able to put together one really good defensive stand, it…

patriotswire.usatoday.com

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I see Robisnon still played. I was wrong. As for comparing the 2, we don't know what Butler did, but I'm not going to knock Robinson for soliciting. Something that 1000s of NFL players did before a big game.

As for the others, Barrett Robbins was benched after his bender in Tijuana. I don't know if Stanley Wilson was even fit to play after passing out from his cocaine bender. But he didn't play (unlike Callahan who just sent Robbins home, Sam Wyche is not on record as benching Wilson, though Wilson didn't play). If you look at NFL championship there was the Packers Max McGhee who was benched, and of course, our very own Irving Fryar following his arrest for domestic abuse. Tank Johnson was also famously suspended for an arrest with guns.

I give you props for your overall post. My point was that no one has ever been benched for a vague reason like "lacking focus in practice" or some other perceived minor infraction. Of course guys might get benched for a severe crime or major external distraction. Which is why I reiterate that if Butler really ****ed up that week, a severe violation gives a lot more teeth to Bill's decision.

The Patriots should just leak the report of what actually happened so we can all move on.

 

[Wozzy]

You're burying yourself.

First rule of holes.

No doubt... Chandler Jones 13 sacks, 18 QB Hits, 4 Forced Fumbles in 2015 were problematic... pretty bad in fact.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Jones didn't slack off, his performance didn't slip. BB said the Butler decision was a football decision. Butler wasn't good in 2017 to begin with, largely because he was moaning about his contract and he isn't athletic enough where he could slack off in the least, he was an effort guy.

"2017 was a tough year for Butler. Among all cornerbacks, he regressed slightly, finishing with a 79.2 overall grade, ranking 51st being ranking fifth in 2016 and 18th in 2015. He also gave up six touchdowns in his coverage, tying for third-most at the position, while also yielding the 11th-most yards at 698 and ranking 108th in yards after the catch at 233."

These Malcolm Butler stats might help explain his Super Bowl benching

It's been very easy for the media and fans to question Bill Belichick's decision to bench Malcolm Butler in Super Bowl LII, because the game was a defensive nightmare for both teams. Had the Patriots been able to put together one really good defensive stand, it…

patriotswire.usatoday.com

Please...tell us how bad Butler (a starter all season) was. These stats are really convincing that he wasn't the best guy to be out there.

 

[Wozzy]

Please...tell us how bad Butler (a starter all season) was.

He got Moss'd by a 5'6" WR Jakeem Grant then blamed Matt Patricia for not blitzing enough... he also gave up the third most TD's and 11th most yards in the NFL from the corner position.

But I suppose when you have an argument to make that is considered good...

 

[venecol]

What is not a credible story? It's Malcolm's quote. He said it.

He didn't have to say anything in July. He had no motivation to admit it. He got his $. He could have remained silent. I think he wanted to get it off his chest just like after the SB.

He started and played 98% of the snaps vs JAX. Fine.

He got sick and behind on the prep vs PHI. Whatever. It happens.

For whatever reason he didn't make up the prep for PHI. The guy started 50+ games before 2017 SB. I'm sure he fell behind on prep before. He'd been ready EVERY time. What changed?

He split reps w/ Rowe all week. Bill clearly intended to play him (I believe).

Between the last practice and the game it was determined by the coaching staff Malcolm was not ready to play in the game. We all know that and Malcolm later confirmed it was true.

If you choose to take what he said immediately after the game but discard what he said months later that's selective.

Where did you hear about all those details concerning the week of practice being the reason he got benched?

I heard from a reliable source that Steven wanted to touch Malcolm's pipi and he wouldn't let him, so he got benched. That's why it's so hush hush. Of course this will never be admitted or confirmed by anyone, the Patriots being more secretive than the NSA.

 

[Deus Irae]

No doubt... Chandler Jones 13 sacks, 18 QB Hits, 4 Forced Fumbles in 2015 were problematic... pretty bad in fact.

Pretending Jones' numbers should have innoculated him, but Butler's obvious superiority in comparison to his backups should not have, is asinine.

All I'm saying is that you need to find better arguments, since the ones you're using really suck.

 

[Wozzy]

Pretending Jones' numbers should have innoculated him, but Butler's obvious superiority in comparison to his backups should not have, is asinine.

All I'm saying is that you need to find better arguments, since the ones you're using really suck.

Butler's poor play got him benched, acting out over his contract kept him there.

Perhaps if he were playing well he would have gotten a slap of the wrist like when BB sat Welker for his Rex Ryan "feet" interview before putting him out there immediately after.

Butler was terrible in 2017. Also all of Philly's receivers stood over 6'1" tall, all three of the corners the Pats played were their tall guys, it was a football decision. Better play, better matchups... pretty self explanatory.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

He got Moss'd by a 5'6" WR Jakeem Grant then blamed Matt Patricia for not blitzing enough... he also gave up the third most TD's and 11th most yards in the NFL from the corner position.

But I suppose when you have an argument to make that is considered good...

Do you really not understand the difference between:

Malcom Butler played great in 2017!!!!!!!!

and

Malcolm Butler had a down season in 2017, was pretty unreliable, and yet was still so much better than Bademosi, Rowe, and Richards, along with the domino effect on the entire defense?

 

[Steve102]

More Malcom Butler. Jesus you guys.

 

[Deus Irae]

Butler's poor play got him benched, acting out over his contract kept him there.

Perhaps if he were playing well he would have gotten a slap of the wrist like when BB sat Welker for his Rex Ryan "feet" interview before putting him out there immediately after.

Butler was terrible in 2017. Also all of Philly's receivers stood over 6'1" tall, all three of the corners the Pats played were their tall guys, it was a football decision. Better play, better matchups... pretty self explanatory.

Butler's "poor" play was still much better than any of the backups. Even if you buy into the notion of benching him at the start, you've got to put him in after seeing the tire fire that was the defense without him.


Try again. Better yet, don't try again because, again, your argument sucks. Take the "L" on this, and move on.

 

[crawhammer]

Off the top of my head, I can think of others. Many others. Just an example, the DB who was with a prostitute way past curfew. Robinson. He didn't play. There are others.

WTF! dude pay attention. The statement was In the history of the Super Bowl, only one regular starter has ever been benched for “not being focused” or whatever the excuse here.

1) Getting arrested for soliciting prostitution from an undercover police officer is WAY MORE egregious than not being focused.
2) Robinson wasn't benched, he played in that Super Bowl.
3) You couldn't have f*cked up your reply worse if you had tried.

Between the last practice and the game it was determined by the coaching staff Malcolm was not ready to play in the game. We all know that and Malcolm later confirmed it was true.

HE PLAYED IN THE GAME. He was in uniform ON THE SIDELINE.

If Butler was so inept leading up to the game then he should been Inactive. He was active. He was in uniform. He was on the sideline. He played in the game. Belichick kept him on the sideline while his replacements were getting completely embarrassed. Rowe sucked. Bademosi sucked. Richards sucked. Yet Butler remained on the sideline, an active player for the game, while Belichick refused to give him any opportunity whatsoever to make a difference. So yeah, die on the hill of 'we don't KNOW if Butler would have made a difference'... Belichick conveniently left that off the table by not giving Butler the opportunity. Maybe if he had just gone with 10 defenders then they would have been better off... you can't say I'm wrong because how would you KNOW. It's a pathetic way of arguing.

The truth behind Butler not getting a chance is, by the time Belichick realized his ploy to humiliate Butler was completely backfiring, he couldn't put him in the game because had Butler noticeably outperformed any of those other three clowns, yet they still lost the game, then he would have opened himself up to incredible scrutiny for having Butler on the sideline at all. Belichick is so egocentric that he was willing to lose the game rather than take the chance of opening himself up to obvious criticism. As it is now all of his minions can say half-witted things like a 3-year starter who previously made one of greatest defensive plays in Super Bowl history wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[Wozzy]

Do you really not understand the difference between:

Malcom Butler played great in 2017!!!!!!!!

and

Malcolm Butler had a down season in 2017, was pretty unreliable, and yet was still so much better than Bademosi, Rowe, and Richards, along with the domino effect on the entire defense?

Stop mentioning Richards, he was a strong safety... and he only played because both Chung and Ebner were lost to injury. He has zero to do with corner.

And no Butler wasn't better than those corners, the Pats got exposed against the Eagles because their defensive front was in tatters. They got zero pressure on Foles, he could have sat down and did his taxes back there. No backfield can hold forever with zero pressure, the difference between the #1 ranked 2019 Patriots defensive backfield and the 2020 defensive backfield wasn't different players... the front in 2020 was substantially worse.

Football is won in the trenches, defense starts upfront and works it's way back.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Do you want a response just to argue it or do you want a response to hear a different view than yours?

Bill said Malcolm's benching was not discipline- related. Take note of that.

Jones was not arrested nor did he violate the NFL substance abuse policy therefor no punishment was warranted. We can therefor conclude he put his time in to prepare for the KC game.

I'm sure in Bill's estimation Tom was always prepared so the scenario you present is a hypothetical as it never happened. He may have been sick but got himself physically and mentally ready to play on Sunday.

Based on that we can therefore conclude Malcolm's benching was related to his lack preparation leading up to the game and mental unpreparedness which put him as such a severe disadvantage to the point the coaching staff did not have confidence in him.

All Bill cares about is if players are ready for the game. Malcolm wasn't.

Nothing more to it.

That's fine, but Bill's alternatives weren't ready for the game.

Jones didn't slack off, his performance didn't slip. BB said the Butler decision was a football decision. Butler wasn't good in 2017 to begin with, largely because he was moaning about his contract and he isn't athletic enough where he could slack off in the least, he was an effort guy.

"2017 was a tough year for Butler. Among all cornerbacks, he regressed slightly, finishing with a 79.2 overall grade, ranking 51st being ranking fifth in 2016 and 18th in 2015. He also gave up six touchdowns in his coverage, tying for third-most at the position, while also yielding the 11th-most yards at 698 and ranking 108th in yards after the catch at 233."

These Malcolm Butler stats might help explain his Super Bowl benching

It's been very easy for the media and fans to question Bill Belichick's decision to bench Malcolm Butler in Super Bowl LII, because the game was a defensive nightmare for both teams. Had the Patriots been able to put together one really good defensive stand, it…

patriotswire.usatoday.com

It doesn't mention Butler's alternative was one of if not the worst graded CB in football (Rowe). And again, Eagles beat reporters were saying all week that they would find Rowe and target him. Then Bill does the unthinkable and puts him on their best WR (Jeffrey).

Please...tell us how bad Butler (a starter all season) was. These stats are really convincing that he wasn't the best guy to be out there.

Jordan Richards at his finest. The attempted tackle by "Badmostly" was pathetic. Were these 3rd down grabs?

 

[Wozzy]

Butler's "poor" play was still much better than any of the backups. Even if you buy into the notion of benching him at the start, you've got to put him in after seeing the tire fire that was the defense without him.

Try again. Better yet, don't try again because, again, your argument sucks. Take the "L" on this, and move on.

Tennessee had buyer's remorse the moment they signed Butler and ended up benching him in favor of Adoree Jackson, now they're looking to dump him... Butler hasn't been good since 2016. I like the kid, but he was an UDFA for a reason. Rowe meanwhile started on one of the best defenses in the league last year. Bademosi isn't amazing but he doesn't suck either, the Pats front sucked against the Eagles because they were injured. One corner who played terribly all season didn't swing that Super Bowl... that's BB haters lashing out.

 

[Deus Irae]

Tennessee had buyer's remorse the moment they signed Butler and ended up benching him in favor of Adoree Jackson, now they're looking to dump him... Butler hasn't been good since 2016. I like the kid, but he was an UDFA for a reason. Rowe meanwhile started on one of the best defenses in the league last year. Bademosi isn't amazing but he doesn't suck either, the Pats front sucked against the Eagles because they were injured. One corner who played terribly all season didn't swing that Super Bowl... that's BB haters lashing out.

Tennessee having, or not having, buyer's remorse is completely irrelevant. What Rowe did last year, or Butler did last year, or you did last year, or some farmer in the Andes mountains did last year, is completely and equally irrelevant.


You're embarrassing yourself with this crap.

 

[upstater1]

That still was an embarrassing incident that was public. And as I mentioned above, he barely practiced.

I got it. But it's the CBA.

Same reason the Patriots were dinged for fining Malcolm Butler when he was late to OTAs. You can't fine a player for OTAs, so they got dinged by the PA.