Asante goes off on Bill/Pats organization

[Triumph]

I'm not upset. I'm happy.

Why the name calling when the facts were presented?

Granted you seem furthest from the well informed type, but if who have conflicting information on the chain of events, please provide.

Granted you'll do the merciful thing for yourself and not respond but you might to review the concept of rookie contracts vs second contracts for 3rd round draft picks circa. 2003

Samuel started in his 2nd season and started in a Super Bowl Championship. Belichick got a over performing starting CB for peanuts. He could have sweetened the pot, but didnt.

The 2011 CBA not only reduced compensation for drafted rookies, especially those in the first round, but it drastically restricted negotiating options. All contracts for drafted rookies are now a mandatory four years in length and no such contract—even for young players who are dramatically undervalued—can be renegotiated until after three years have passed under the contract.

Maybe you shouldnt use the term idiot so frequently.

 

[venecol]

Perhaps you aren't old enough to know anything about what Bradshaw (or frankly all the team) thought of Chuck Noll or what Roger Staubach thought of Tom Landry or What Johhny Unitas or Mercury Morris thought of Don Shula or Vince Lombardi shipping Jim Taylor out after a contract dispute or Bill Walsh bringing in Steve Young while Montana was on the team or what the Cowboys thought of the platooning of Morton and Staubach or what players thought of George Halas or the feud between Marcus Allen and Al Davis or the long feud between Parcells and Simms

See these are normal things. How is this known? Simple, the reality of history shows it. It's happens with regular frequency. Russell Wilson and Aaron Rogers will be next.

Since being awake is perhaps a challenge, you might want to study up on Belichick's willingness to trade Gronkowski after 2017 or perhaps review overall Gronkowski performance circa. 2018 in the context of compensation vs value in the $10M range. You can access patsfans.com for applicable threads.

Notice that the voices in your head that told you that never bothered to notice all the real, actual examples that prove otherwise. For best bet is really review your entire process with especial care taken to actually study and acknowledge real, actual events.

I thought the lead in the water was only in Flint, MI but apparently it hit Cleveland as well. LMFAO

 

[Deus Irae]

But all the players I listed played at an elite level in the biggest games. The QB is super important, but what about all the guys on D?

What about them?

As for the current Patriots, we're a young team. We need a QB. If in 2 or 3 years I came back here and you told me that Wynn, Mason, Onwenu, Myers, Damien Harris, Uche, Dugger, Winovich, maybe Terez Hall, JC Jackson, were playing at an elite level. I would not be surprised. If Marcus Mariota was a game managing QB that gave us 12 wins I would not be surprised. That Belichick signed 5 key FAs who filled holes at WR, LB, DE and DT, I would not be surprised.

I'm confident in believing that Kraft isn't going to be happy with a team who's long term outlook is borderline playoff threat.

I'm not expecting Super Bowl victories, but I do see how the master Belichick can put together a 12 win team here. We do have 10-14 young players we can build on. I don't think McCourty, Edelman and Hightower are going to be around for the rebuild. But we have a base. Now we need to do great in free agency and hit on that #15 pick in the draft.

The dynastic Patriots are done: BB killed that off. And I say that to talk about today and moving forward, not to gripe about what is now the past. The current roster needs a major overhaul. It needs elite talent. It needs better supporting players. It needs just about everything that's not special teams. Frankly, you're welcome to try to find a personnel grouping on offense or defense that is not either in immediate need of major work or probably on its last legs.

WR - Complete rebuild
TE - Complete rebuild
RB - White's a FA and the rest is "meh"
QB - Dumpster fires feel bad for this group.
OL - Multiple open spots and an underwhelming 1st round LT

DT - I think I'm 2nd on the current depth chart there
DE/Edge rusher - Desperately seeking anyone
LB - Even if Hightower returns as something near to his old self, this position is still barren as hell
DB - The strength of the entire starting 22, and the key player, even if the CB1 returns, is a speed/cover safety who's going to be 34 years old



BB's going to need to spend, and he should take this opportunity to add cornerstone level players, if at all possible.

 

[upstater1]

What about them?



I'm confident in believing that Kraft isn't going to be happy with a team who's long term outlook is borderline playoff threat.



The dynastic Patriots are done: BB killed that off. And I say that to talk about today and moving forward, not to gripe about what is now the past. The current roster needs a major overhaul. It needs elite talent. It needs better supporting players. It needs just about everything that's not special teams. Frankly, you're welcome to try to find a personnel grouping on offense or defense that is not either in immediate need of major work or probably on its last legs.

WR - Complete rebuild
TE - Complete rebuild
RB - White's a FA and the rest is "meh"
QB - Dumpster fires feel bad for this group.
OL - Multiple open spots and an underwhelming 1st round LT

DT - I think I'm 2nd on the current depth chart there
DE/Edge rusher - Desperately seeking anyone
LB - Even if Hightower returns as something near to his old self, this position is still barren as hell
DB - The strength of the entire starting 22, and the key player, even if the CB1 returns, is a speed/cover safety who's going to be 34 years old



BB's going to need to spend, and he should take this opportunity to add cornerstone level players, if at all possible.

What about them? They brought us Super Bowl victories. Without superstars. Belichick's roster management was key to the consistency and longevity.

As for Kraft, he really doesn't care, he's a bazillionaire, and if there's one thing he must have learned it's the value of continuity.

 

[The Brandon Five]

If Assante did his job, the Patriots would have had a 19-0 perfect season. He needs to shut up.

The missed INT wasn’t the only thing. Tyree was his man.

 

[Deus Irae]

What about them? They brought us Super Bowl victories. Without superstars. Belichick's roster management was key to the consistency and longevity.

As for Kraft, he really doesn't care, he's a bazillionaire, and if there's one thing he must have learned it's the value of continuity.

I think you're doing a complete misread of what's gone down. Let me be obnoxious about it, not in an attempt to just be obnoxious, but to try to hammer the point across:


BELICHICK WON BECAUSE HE HAD TOM BRADY. BELICHICK DID NOT WIN BECAUSE HE PULLED KYLE VAN NOY OFF THE SCRAP HEAP.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Its gonna be a long offseason for bb

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Those mid-tier guys were key though. Whatever Bill did it won us a lot of Super Bowls.

Here are some blasts from the past: Grant Williams, Bobby Hamilton, Otis Smith, Christian Fauria, David Patten, Mike Compton, Anthony Pleasant, Larry Izzo, Terrell Buckley, Antowain Smith, Roman Phifer, Keith Traylor, Reche Caldwell, Donte Stallworth, Kyle Brady, Rob Ninkovich, Andre Carter, Brian Waters, Brandon Lloyd, Ted Washington, Danny Amendola, Donald Thomas, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Jason McCourty, Jamie Collins II, Patrick Chung II, Jabar Gaffney, Deion Lewis, Danny Woodhead, Rex Burkhead, Legarette Blount, Ryan Wendell, Alan Branch, Brandon Browner, Chris Hogan, Chris Long, Martellus Bennett, Jabaal Sheard, Lawrence Guy, etc.

What about them? They brought us Super Bowl victories. Without superstars. Belichick's roster management was key to the consistency and longevity.

Belichick's roster management was key to the consistency and longevity.

100% agree on that point, but I would argue that Belichick has been really good at keeping the right superstars too, which has put a lot of these guys in position to be key role players on championship teams (good list, though Harrison and Vrabel aren’t mid-tier.)

You just don’t win in professional sports without elite players. In the NFL, the number of those players is limited for every team because of the cap, but that doesn’t mean those guys aren’t incredibly valuable. I mean, we could all sing the praises of Rex Burkhead and Antowain Smith, but those types of guys are historical nothing burgers if the Patriots aren’t driven by Brady, Law, McGinest, Seymour, Vinatieri, Moss, Gronkowski, Wilfork, Hightower, McCourty, Revis, Gilmore, etc...almost all of them among the highest paid at their position. And when the team made the wrong choice of who to pay (Mankins, Adalius Thomas), it was costly.

People like to point to the 2001 team as an example of a team made up of role players, but I don’t think they realize even that team was superstar heavy. The offense averaged +8ppg the moment Brady took over and Seymour fixed the run defense and pass rush almost by himself. Sure, a bunch of guys made key plays, but that’s like almost all SB runs. In the end, Brady, Seymour, Law, McGinest, Brown, and Vinatieri were most responsible for making the big impact and often the biggest play. Fans just didn’t realize how good these guy were at the time.

I’m not saying this is 100% in favor of “superstars are more important than the rest of the roster;” there’s a balance there. Both are important. Teams have gone superstar centric like the Seahawks, Colts, Chiefs, etc. The Patriots seem a little more reluctant to shell out those contracts in favor of depth, but they’ve also gotten great value, and relied heavily, on almost all the superstars they have invested in.

And, of course, retaining the ultimate superstar for 19 years was the biggest thing, and the one Belichick deserves the most praise for, even if he deserves criticism now too.

 

[venecol]

What about them? They brought us Super Bowl victories. Without superstars. Belichick's roster management was key to the consistency and longevity.

Ahem, Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr. is a superstar. Without Brady we don't have most of those SB victories.

As for Kraft, he really doesn't care, he's a bazillionaire, and if there's one thing he must have learned it's the value of continuity.

But, but, but we are all Patriots.

 

[venecol]

The missed INT wasn’t the only thing. Tyree was his man.

 

[venecol]

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Ahem, Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr. is a superstar. Without Brady we don't have most of those SB victories.


But, but, but we are all Patriots.

I think people have a perception that other teams have a bunch of superstars. When you look at the All-Decade teams, you have:

Major Contributors
Brady (2X)
Seymour
Law
Gronkowski
Mankins

Shorter Timeframe Contributors
Moss
Revis
Jones

In addition, Gilmore won DPOY and McCourty’s stats (and pay) are similar to Earl Thomas and Eric Weddle; he just got snubbed all the time from accolades. Many felt Hightower deserved all-decade recognition too. Welker and Edelman were superstars by reputation. Both kickers made the team, too.

The perception the Patriots aren’t a superstar team just doesn’t hold up. I doubt any other team has as many all-decade players, presumably Hall of Fame bound. Five non-ST players who spent almost their whole career in NE is a lot.

 

[Biffins]

No more Twitter, he finally speaks! He tells a heated confrontation between him and BB regarding his contract, says Bill holds players back, players are lying on how “good” it is and too afraid to speak up on how they’re treated like “s***”, Tom is the reason Bill gets away with signing “random players”. Is he registered on this board?

Wow! This is just the beginning boys and girls. Great timing with FA coming up right?

Asante is right. How can BB start Chad Scott ahead of Asante except for being pissed about Asante's contract situation and the fact Asante didn't want to take a discount and wanted to "Get Paid" which he got tattoed on his arm.

 

[venecol]

Asante is right. How can BB start Chad Scott ahead of Asante except for being pissed about Asante's contract situation and the fact Asante didn't want to take a discount and wanted to "Get Paid" which he got tattoed on his arm.

I heard him say BB also started a WR as a DB instead of him. WTF. Lmao

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

I need to agree with @Deus Irae here. With Brady gone, I don't know if Belichick's old philosophy will bring us rings. Yeah, we went 7-9 with Cam Newton but we are very far from being a SB team. We do need elite talent and Belichick is going to need to pay someone. Belichick needs to adapt to the post Brady Patriots.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think people have a perception that other teams have a bunch of superstars. When you look at the All-Decade teams, you have:

Major Contributors
Brady (2X)
Seymour
Law
Gronkowski
Mankins

Shorter Timeframe Contributors
Moss
Revis
Jones

In addition, Gilmore won DPOY and McCourty’s stats (and pay) are similar to Earl Thomas and Eric Weddle; he just got snubbed all the time from accolades. Many felt Hightower deserved all-decade recognition too. Welker and Edelman were superstars by reputation. Both kickers made the team, too.

The perception the Patriots aren’t a superstar team just doesn’t hold up. I doubt any other team has as many all-decade players, presumably Hall of Fame bound. Five non-ST players who spent almost their whole career in NE is a lot.

Thanks for this angle. Let's explore, just a bit (1st and 2nd team all-decade), the 2000s:

The Patriots and Steelers were the only teams to win multiple SBs in the 2000s, and the Colts were stopped by the Patriots, but were universally considered one of the best teams of the decade.

Colts - Manning, James, Harrison, Freeney
Steelers - Faneca, Porter, Polamalu


One time winners:

Bucs - Sapp, Barber, Brooks
Giants - Strahan
Saints - Sharper
Packers - Woodson


Every SB winner had at least one All Decade level player on it. And the 3 best teams of the decade all had 3 or more All Decade player on them, and that wasn't the end of the elite players on those squads.

 

[upstater1]

Ahem, Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr. is a superstar. Without Brady we don't have most of those SB victories.


But, but, but we are all Patriots.

Brady plays offense, not defense.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

People here hate on Asante who led the NFL in picks twice and owned a prime Peyton Manning for a pick 6 in a championship game...

yet they defend Duke Dawson, Jojuan Williams, and Cyrus Jones when BB overdrafts them by 5 rounds

 

[upstater1]

I think you're doing a complete misread of what's gone down. Let me be obnoxious about it, not in an attempt to just be obnoxious, but to try to hammer the point across:


BELICHICK WON BECAUSE HE HAD TOM BRADY. BELICHICK DID NOT WIN BECAUSE HE PULLED KYLE VAN NOY OFF THE SCRAP HEAP.

Belichick won wherever he went. He brought the Patriots to the Super Bowl right after he joined in '96. He basically won us a SB (not Tom Brady) in 2001. The guy knows what he's doing with or without Brady. Neither of them win 6 without each other.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

Belichick needs to get us a serviceable QB.

If we go another 2 years without one and keep losing 8+ games, what was the point of letting Brady walk?