Debate Brady vs Belichick?

[skinnydog]

So a "pretty disciplined" Patriots have 6-7 wins while a "really pretty undisciplined" Bucs have 10-11 wins. So Brady matters that much more? And Bill's roster selection is that much worse?

Guys 6-10 is a really bad record. There are teams with 6 wins like 49ers that are bottom of the division. We are saved from that ignominy only due having Jets in our division.

Pats roster is really really bad. Worst WR room and TE room in the league. Below average D-line and linebacker groups.

 

[Biffins]

It's also worth noting that as nice as it is to watch a 00 Ravens, 02 Bucs, 85 Bears, or 15 Broncos defense.... that absolutely should not be the goal for a team to build towards. In all those cases it lasted 1 year and they couldn't sustain it. Too much of a grind and too many moving parts. It's rare to get to and it has no track record of sustaining. Top QB's keep their team in the hunt for like a decade. Rodgers with a not great defense won a ring by himself so an elite QB still yields you the same thing, it just also keeps your team with a much higher ceiling and gives you more chances.

Completely agree and makes sense. Easier to keep one player (QB) then one whole unit happy. And even when you try, like "Legion of Boom" it sitll doesn't necessarily work.

 

[1960Pats]

Eli Manning
The shell of Peyton Manning
Brad Johnson
Trent Dilfer
Nick Foles
Joe Flacco
Doug Williams
Phil Simms
Jim McMahon
Jeff Hostetler
Hell Terry bradshaw 4 times.

what is the stat? I’d it no QB to lead the league in passing has ever won a SB? (Or is it mvp?). If it were all about the qb how can that be?

Geez. Once again, it isn't ALL about the QB. The question is who was more important, Tom or Bill. Tom has made another comeback, this time to lead the poll at 70%, which is about the same as his winning %.

No contract was offered because Brady wouldn’t talk, he wanted to leave. As soon as free agency started he went to krafts house, and said I’m leaving. Kraft asked if there was anything they could do and Brady said no.

Were you there?

 

[Biffins]

Brett Favre played at a very high level for Minnesota in his age 40 season. And subsequently fell off the cliff the next season.

With Brady we’re taking his age 43 season. Again he’s playing great but no player is going to get the benefit of the doubt over Father Time since it hasn’t been done before at 43.

It also hadn't been done at 41. Also hadn't been done at 42.

So what?

And is going 2 year contract that much a stretch over 1 year contract. Come on!

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

It also hadn't been done at 41. Also hadn't been done at 42.

So what?

And is going 2 year contract that much a stretch over 1 year contract. Come on!

He should’ve offered the 2 year deal. Didn’t happen. Time to move on.

 

[Biffins]

Ultimately there was going to be a year of pain when it ended one way or another. There was no avoiding that because there would always be a dead money hit and cap pushed forward to deal with.
It seems to have ended up worst case due to opt outs, etc, but had we brought in a better QB and gone 10-6 (which would definitely have happened with an average qb) and missed the playoffs is it really any different?

True except for the fact it didn’t have to end right now

 

[carmelo15]

Debates already over. Only a segment Patriots fans think otherwise.

and we call this people complete and utter fools Brady is 43 imagine if he was in his prime

 

[Ring 6]

True except for the fact it didn’t have to end right now

We are one year closer to the rebound than if it hadn’t.

 

[crawhammer]

Regarding the contract situation with Brady in summary... Belichick f'd it up royally. He treated Brady like a has-been. Brady finally told Belichick to F off. Brady's been completely vindicated with the results of 2020 season. It's blatantly obvious.

 

[TheRainMaker]

How hilarious would it be seeing Brady, Gronk and AB hoisting a Super Bowl trophy? That would be such a bad look for BB/Kraft.

 

[Biffins]

Agreed, it was a good call.

Brown is mentally unstable and has allegedly done some pretty heinous things. I don't want him near the team I root for (nor the NFL as a whole).

... and, what he's scored, what, one single, solitary touchdown in ... how many games?

And on cue Brown had an amazing game yesterday. You were saying?

 

[Biffins]

Regarding the contract situation with Brady in summary... Belichick f'd it up royally. He treated Brady like a has-been. Brady finally told Belichick to F off. Brady's been completely vindicated with the results of 2020 season. It's blatantly obvious.

Exactly!! Considering how important the QB position is, and we could have had Brady’s services for $25m, why did we decide to torpedo this season? How the hell is it a BETTER decision miney-wise to hold on to Thuney and McCourry instead of Brady? Did we train some up and coming QB and groom him for the future and invested time in him? Did we invest that cap on securing some young and upcoming talent longterm? No we extending McCourty for 2 years and held on to Thuney a year extra. And had no QB to groom. IT WAS A MONUMENTALLY STUPID AND ARROGANT DECISION TO KICK BRADY OUT.

And BB deserves all the blame!

 

[Biffins]

How hilarious would it be seeing Brady, Gronk and AB hoisting a Super Bowl trophy? That would be such a bad look for BB/Kraft.

it would highlight our mismanagement of the roster. Kicking out frickin three Hall of Fame players for pride, arrogance and mediocre has-beens

 

[Biffins]

Never said they could not have kept Brady money wise. The question if how do they keep him and field a Super Bowl competitive team. Agree that cutting these 2 important players and having Brady play instead would have made them slightly better in 2020 but it still leaves them well short of championship contention this year and in the near future. Isn't it possible that BB decided that due to the cap situation and a weak roster that it was in the best long term interests of the Patriots to move on now and improve the cap shape in 2021 and beyond vs the often repeated narrative of wanting to prove he can win w/o Brady?

How are we not better of in 2020 with Brady than without Brady?!?!

 

[Biffins]

He should’ve offered the 2 year deal. Didn’t happen. Time to move on.

No, time to asign blame for that royal fckup. And it’s on Belichick.

 

[PF_SU]

It's also worth noting that as nice as it is to watch a 00 Ravens, 02 Bucs, 85 Bears, or 15 Broncos defense.... that absolutely should not be the goal for a team to build towards. In all those cases it lasted 1 year and they couldn't sustain it. Too much of a grind and too many moving parts. It's rare to get to and it has no track record of sustaining. Top QB's keep their team in the hunt for like a decade. Rodgers with a not great defense won a ring by himself so an elite QB still yields you the same thing, it just also keeps your team with a much higher ceiling and gives you more chances.

This is casting it a bit oversimplified. It's true, winning using defense-only is hard (but then again, so is winning with offense-only). All those defenses that you listed were not 1 year wonders. They had a sustained record of excellence.

And the year Rodgers won the Super Bowl? He played with the #2 scoring D that allowed only 15 points per game. Hardly something he won "by himself".

 

[Brewskies]

"Debate Over...Brady more important than Belichick."

NOT TRUE

 

[carmelo15]

Wins against teams with a winning record this season

Belichick- 3

Brady- 1

alright this has past embarrassing for some of y’all

 

[RodThePat]

It's also worth noting that as nice as it is to watch a 00 Ravens, 02 Bucs, 85 Bears, or 15 Broncos defense.... that absolutely should not be the goal for a team to build towards. In all those cases it lasted 1 year and they couldn't sustain it. Too much of a grind and too many moving parts. It's rare to get to and it has no track record of sustaining. Top QB's keep their team in the hunt for like a decade. Rodgers with a not great defense won a ring by himself so an elite QB still yields you the same thing, it just also keeps your team with a much higher ceiling and gives you more chances.

The 2010 Packers defense was second in the league in defensive DVOA, number one against the pass. Only once, in 2003, did Brady win a title with a defense that ranked 2nd or better in DVOA.

 

[RIpats88]

Regarding the contract situation with Brady in summary... Belichick f'd it up royally. He treated Brady like a has-been. Brady finally told Belichick to F off. Brady's been completely vindicated with the results of 2020 season. It's blatantly obvious.

The great mismanagement was treating brady like a has-been when there was no guy waiting in the wings.

It's one thing to move on from Brady because you want to go with the young guy. But we traded the young guy to San Francisco. And then Bill did nothing to plan for the future.

At that point what do you have to lose signing brady to a 2 year deal? If he falls off the cliff you only are where you are without him which is 7-9