OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[rochrist]

Ariens isn’t an all world coach, he isn’t a great coach. He is an average coach. Stop blaming him for Brady having a so so year. I know you want Brady to still be BRADY, but he is 43 and set in his ways. He may still be good enough to overcome this stuff with an amazingly good team around him but probably he isn’t.

Eh. It's both. But give that team as is to Bill and they DO make it to the SB.

 

[carmelo15]

Eh. It's both. But give that team as is to Bill and they DO make it to the SB.

give that team to Atleast 20 coaches and they make it, this dude is running go routes on 3rd and 2 with no RB in the back field it’s embarrassing

 

[carmelo15]

Also someone ask Arians/Leftwhich why Fournett plays why. Tampa was driving at the start of the 3rd with Jones and once the reach the goalie in comes fournette

 

[DropKickFlutie]

give that team to Atleast 20 coaches and they make it, this dude is running go routes on 3rd and 2 with no RB in the back field it’s embarrassing

He made it clear Brady picks the plays in the game plan and the plays used. So maybe this is Brady unchecked without a GOAT coach reining him in.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Calling someone a hater for not slobbering all over a player who left the team is something a kid would do. So no I am neither 12 nor a little girl, and I won’t cal either of you a hater but if you like I can use grown up words to describe pus..ies like some of you obviously are.

Okay Mr. Grown up. We dont expect anyone to sobber all of a player. We dont care if you're not a fan of his or if you root for him. The thing is you root for his demise. You mock Pats fans who do root for him. You reduce him to just a player who left. You cant stand that people still root for him. That's what makes you a hater. You obviously dont root for him or like people that still do. Why are you here?

 

[Tony2046]

I tried to once, Tony..she was sitting on my chest pummeling my head with her fat fists demanding I take out the garbage...scary

Of course, you KNOW what I said right?

There's some pie in the fridge?

 

[PP2]

He made it clear Brady picks the plays in the game plan and the plays used. So maybe this is Brady unchecked without a GOAT coach reining him in.

Yeah, pick from any of the 200 vertical option routes he has in his playbook. Arians hasn't met a vertical route he didn't like.

 

[Joker]

There's some pie in the fridge?

Good one but no....I said "YOU cooked it, YOU take it out..."

 

[Lagaffe_07]

After reading some articles, watching some videos, Tom Brady hasn’t been great, he made crucial mistakes but we need to put context on those. If you watched his stats, you’ll say 11 INTs that’s bad and it is but if you dig a little you’ll see that on those 11 INTs 10 have come when Tampa was trailing in games. Tom has been pretty much GOAT Tom when Tampa is leading in games.

when they trail what Arians wants is throw the ball downfield everytime to gain yardage quick and with the lack of protection they had that lead to mistakes.

Tom is leading the league in number of completion but Tampa is 28th in YAC. That tells you that when the receiver catch the ball, he is immediately tackle. That means a lot throw into tight coverage and tight windows. He could also means that he is not able to lead receiver much on deep passes. But in my opinion Tom and Arians need to find a solution to throw to receiver in space more.

the offense need to be more methodical early in games and avoid to take shot everytime because that lead more often than not in 3 and out. Their D is not good against the pass. There a first in the run games but 24th in pass defense. Early stalling drive by the O and inability for the D to stop anything early led often to TB trailing in games.

Tom Brady has not been what TB expected him to be but that’s because IMO they ask him to be something he can no longer be.

 

[amfootball]

Okay Mr. Grown up. We dont expect anyone to sobber all of a player. We dont care if you're not a fan of his or if you root for him. The thing is you root for his demise. You mock Pats fans who do root for him. You reduce him to just a player who left. You cant stand that people still root for him. That's what makes you a hater. You obviously dont root for him or like people that still do. Why are you here?

Well said.

 

[amfootball]

It is 100% the coaching. If you just watch Brady he clearly still has it. It’s just that the offensive play calling is **** and not catering to Brady’s strengths.

If he was still in New England with a few Bucs skill players such as Godwin he’d kick ass because he’s working in tandem with arguably the best offensive coordinator in football.

But boy oh boy is Arians a terrible fit with Brady. If he thought it was bad with Bill....at least Belichick never threw Brady (or any player) under the bus publicly like Arians has done.

I think Tom is definitely having regrets. It’s not like he was strapped for cash. He is playing to win a championship without Belichick and I think he picked the wrong destination.

But that kind of is the whole point why he is Tampa. Bill did not get him anyone close to Godwin or any of the Bucs skills guys the last few years. That is why he left and also because Tampa actually paid him a decent contract and went out and got him the guys he wanted (Gronk, Fournette, McCoy, AB) and then drafted two studs in Wirfs and Winfield. In other words, they are doing all they can to help him get another chip in his last few years.

In terms of Arians, Brady knew what type of coach Arians was and he knew his system and what he had to learn. I doubt he is neither surprised or disappointed thus far. They are still a work in progress with a 7-5 record with 4 very winnable games coming up. That is a pretty good first year with a new team in a new system. The Pats went 10 years without a SB between their 3rd and 4th rings so if anyone knows how tough it is to win the SB its Brady but the difference with Tampa vs NE is that he has a MUCH better chance with Tampa than NE for the foreseeable future. I mean look at the Pats offense compared to Tampa's? What a joke. We are running a 60s style offense because our QB is putrid and we have no skill guys. Brady jumped ship at the exact right time. It remains to be seen what he will ultimately do in Tampa but I guarantee you he has zero regrets about leaving NE.

 

[Kontradiction]

How did I rank Brady in the 5-7 when I only listed four QB better than him? Opposed to just ranking him 8th which comes after 4th? Maybe I fell asleep that day in school when they taught counting to ten, but last time I checked that 5 comes right after 4. But hey, maybe this new math all the cool kids are doing these days have it in a different order. Again, I said he is 5-7 because I said there might be one or two other QBs that might be better than him and I have haven't kept track of the league. That is where 6th and 7th place might come in. Otherwise, he is 5th IMHO. One thing is for sure is that he is not top 3.

Getting a bit frustrated, eh? You rated four QBs above him “before having to think about it” (therefore leaving the list at 4). Then, in another post, stated he’s 5-7 (while also admitting you’re not watching the other QBs play this season). If you’ve rated him in the top four, and there are 32 starting QBs in the NFL, he is therefore still in the upper tier. So yeah, maybe you were asleep in school when they taught that math thing.

And thank you for making the argument I have been making all along which you seem to have a problem with me stating. Brady is clearly on the decline.

And how is that decline “clear?” Flesh that out a bit for me. Upon what measure are you basing that on? What is your criteria for coming to that conclusion?

But since he is falling for the tops of the top heights that no other QB has fallen from, but is still top of the second tier of QBs. Where is your beef with what I am saying.

I think there is one QB who is clearly playing better over the course of the entire season, and that’s Mahomes. The rest of the QBs you’ve referenced have either not sustained that level of play throughout the course of the season (ala Wilson) or have played a weak schedule and struggled a bit against better defenses (Big Ben). But again, I’m really not sure what you’re basing this decline on since you haven’t fleshed that out at all and I’m also not sure how you’re ranking QBs anyway since you’re not watching the games.

All I have ever said is that he is not elite (You seem to agree), he is still better than 25-27 other QBs (you also seem to agree), and I don't think he is good enough to carry a bad offense by himself like he did in say 2006.

He just carried a bad offense to nearly a two seed and a bye last season before the run defense decided to take a dump and then got run over by the team who played for the AFCCG. Moreover, he didn’t win the Super Bowl in 2006 nor 2013 either. Was he “clearly in decline” then?

My issue is not with you saying he isn’t elite anymore. There’s only one QB playing elite ball in the NFL right now. My issue was with you jumping in on a debate about whether or not Brady is still playing at a “high level,” which he clearly still is.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

How did I rank Brady in the 5-7 when I only listed four QB better than him? Opposed to just ranking him 8th which comes after 4th? Maybe I fell asleep that day in school when they taught counting to ten, but last time I checked that 5 comes right after 4. But hey, maybe this new math all the cool kids are doing these days have it in a different order. Again, I said he is 5-7 because I said there might be one or two other QBs that might be better than him and I have haven't kept track of the league. That is where 6th and 7th place might come in. Otherwise, he is 5th IMHO. One thing is for sure is that he is not top 3.

And thank you for making the argument I have been making all along which you seem to have a problem with me stating. Brady is clearly on the decline. But since he is falling for the tops of the top heights that no other QB has fallen from, but is still top of the second tier of QBs. Where is your beef with what I am saying.

All I have ever said is that he is not elite (You seem to agree), he is still better than 25-27 other QBs (you also seem to agree), and I don't think he is good enough to carry a bad offense by himself like he did in say 2006.

Brady is not the same anymore vs top teams. Over the past two seasons, he's 1-6 vs KC x 2, NO X 2, Tenn, Baltimore, and GB. This year with all the talent he has he's 1-3 against that group of teams. That's how you know he's on the decline. I don't care about stat padding against crap teams.

 

[Sfpat]

I'll wade into this. If grading on a curve, TB's play is probably Very Good based on a scale of Elite, Very Good, Good and Average, mainly because outside of Mahomes, QB play as noted above is inconsistent at best this year. No one else is playing at a Very Good level but TB is better than most. On an absolute scale, I'd rate TB as Good, not up to Elite or Very Good standards, especially when one considers the "weapons" he has.

 

[wizwor]

One of the dumbest posts I’ve seen on here. Ya, we’ll all forget Brady and all the SBs he won because of Jimmy G.

No. We'll forget him because he was a **** and walked on his team more than once.

 

[Boomer B]

No. We'll forget him because he was a **** and walked on his team more than once.

A new contender for dumbest post ever.

 

[Kdo5]

But that kind of is the whole point why he is Tampa. Bill did not get him anyone close to Godwin or any of the Bucs skills guys the last few years. That is why he left and also because Tampa actually paid him a decent contract and went out and got him the guys he wanted (Gronk, Fournette, McCoy, AB) and then drafted two studs in Wirfs and Winfield. In other words, they are doing all they can to help him get another chip in his last few years.

In terms of Arians, Brady knew what type of coach Arians was and he knew his system and what he had to learn. I doubt he is neither surprised or disappointed thus far. They are still a work in progress with a 7-5 record with 4 very winnable games coming up. That is a pretty good first year with a new team in a new system. The Pats went 10 years without a SB between their 3rd and 4th rings so if anyone knows how tough it is to win the SB its Brady but the difference with Tampa vs NE is that he has a MUCH better chance with Tampa than NE for the foreseeable future. I mean look at the Pats offense compared to Tampa's? What a joke. We are running a 60s style offense because our QB is putrid and we have no skill guys. Brady jumped ship at the exact right time. It remains to be seen what he will ultimately do in Tampa but I guarantee you he has zero regrets about leaving NE.

Oh I think he is 100% disappointed. No one likes having their loser head coach consistently calling out his play to the media while deflecting all blame away from himself. Especially not the greatest player in league history.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Especially not the greatest player in league history.

Greatest QB ever? Yes, but the greatest player ever? Debatable. Belichick himself was on record just a few years ago stating that Lawrence Taylor was the greatest player he ever coached.

 

[Teej]

There's only one problem with Brady, he can still see the field and make the throws but he can't block and pressure makes him do stupid things.

Whenever he retires, he wants to be healthy. End of story.

 

[amfootball]

Oh I think he is 100% disappointed. No one likes having their loser head coach consistently calling out his play to the media while deflecting all blame away from himself. Especially not the greatest player in league history.

I don't. Forget the media and actually listen to Tom. He says repeatedly how unbelievable the organization has been to him. I mean how do you think he became the greatest? By having his tires pumped every game? He played 20 years for the toughest coach in NFL history who is also a curmudgeon.

Brady recently gave an interview with Willie McGinest where he said he told Arians to put the blame on him and to make sure he does not treat him above anyone else so the guys understand accountability. If anyone understands how important it is to teach a team how to win, it is Brady. If Brady had an issue at all with what Arians is doing, it would stop. When Brady is asked about it, he does not even bristle at it. Again, Brady knew what he signed up for going to Tampa. It's not like Arians hasn't also praised him to high heaven when he has played well. Something Bill never did publicly either. Arians has also said how great Brady has been with the younger players bringing them along. We just tend to focus on the negative. But there has been plenty of praise too.