OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[moosekill]

Arians deserves the blame.. all the QB's under him set their personal records for INT's. His "no risk it, no biscuit" ******** hasn't gotten any of his teams anywhere.

Winston last year had a league leading 30 INT's, almost 10 more than Baker who was 2nd in INT's.

But there are many here who have been crying for years that the dink and dunk offense sucks and we need receivers to stretch the field. This is what you get when you try to stretch the field.

 

[stcjones]

Does anyone notice the bucs tendency to complicate things on third and short ? Taking a deep shot, when simply running would suffice.

Yeah and that’s on Arians… His offensive philosophy it’s very big risk/low percentage a lot of times

 

[Kontradiction]

Could it be because you were the one who brought up QB rating in the first place?

Yes. Preceded by yards and touchdowns for context. You didn’t care to comment on those and instead commented on the rating, which is still on par with other seasons in which Brady was considered a QB that was playing at a high level.

In the past, I never complained about Brady because the Pats were winning, which is all that I cared about. I never was a stats guy when it came to this team.

And, now that he’s gone, you suddenly care about this stuff even though it has zero net effect on the 2020 Patriots season. That’s called a bias.

So all in all, I agree with you. Brady is playing at a high level (above average), which is nothing to get excited about.

He’s playing well above average. We both know this. That you can’t even answer the two questions I posed to you which, if answered truthfully, would show that even you know he’s playing at a high level, is extremely telling.

 

[Kontradiction]

If I can name four better QBs than Brady, wouldn't that make him the 5th best QB in the league?

Which, in a league with 32 starters, would put Brady in the upper tier. The only QB playing truly elite football right now is Mahomes. Not even Wilson is playing elite football, as we was earlier in the season when he was the odds-on favorite for the MVP. Brady played elite football in stretches this year and has continued to play at a high level the rest of the time.

I just haven't been following the NFL this year because COVID is making this season a waste so I do not know the play of a lot of QBs.

So then how the hell are you even rating QBs in the first place?

That is why I say he is in the 5-10 range. I know there are at least four QBs better than him. Could there be one or two others? Possibly.

He’s top 5 in a league out of 32 starters. That means he’s playing at a high level, which was what the debate was about in the first place. But I’m not sure how you could even rank these QBs without having watched them play.

But again, Brady in his prime would be #1 or #2 (you could argue the way Mahomes is playing that he might end up being better than Brady in any given year in his prime). Now he is 5-7. That is a drop. Hell, if he was third or fourth best, it would be a decline.

Again, how are you ranking him 5-7 when you only ranked 4 QBs ahead of him in a previous post (one of which now has 10 INTs on the year and has thrown for less yards) and have now admitted you’re not watching the actual games?

 

[Boomer B]

Silver and Brady became friends when Silver did an SI story on Brady in the 2001 season. He has been a staunch defender of Brady in many things. He has been a guy in the past that Brady would leak stories through.

That said, he hates Belichick. Deflategate was probably more about getting at Belichick than Tom. But many Brady fans in the media turned on him over Deflategate especially early on in the process until people started to poke holes in the report and how they manipulated the data.

I remember to this day Silver on the NFL Network completely ripping Brady when Deflategate happened. He said he didn’t believe him. Willie McGinest was the only one on there who defended Tom and said wait until all the details emerge. I don’t think Tom would have anything to do with Silver anymore.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Tom chose to go there. Arians is an ok coach. Team is still doing pretty well. The Brady bunch expected perfection. Super team, Tom finally has all the weapons, Madden on God Mode, perfect coach for Tom and his weapons. When there isn't perfection the blame quickly goes anywhere but Tom. I think there is plenty of blame to go around, and much of it falls directly at Tom.

He could achieve a career-high in INTs...only 4 more to go.

 

[amfootball]

Like everything else, I think this is being way overblown by the media. Brady does not have an issue with Arians or his offense. He is the one that chose to go there and told Arians that he would learn his system. Brady said many times in the off-season that he was looking forward to the challenge of learning something new. I have to think he loves being able to air it out to the studs he has on the outside even if he misses some or throws some picks. Brady was not trying to bring the NE system to Tampa, just the opposite. That being said they have melded some of Brady's plays with the Arians offense and at times it has been dynamite and other times they have struggled. It is not an easy thing what they are trying to do. Hopefully with the bye, they can continue to iron things out and get more in sync versus weaker competition the last 4 games.

 

[PatsWSB47]

He could achieve a career-high in INTs...only 4 more to go.

Crossing your fingers?

 

[Rob0729]

Which, in a league with 32 starters, would put Brady in the upper tier. The only QB playing truly elite football right now is Mahomes. Not even Wilson is playing elite football, as we was earlier in the season when he was the odds-on favorite for the MVP. Brady played elite football in stretches this year and has continued to play at a high level the rest of the time.



So then how the hell are you even rating QBs in the first place?



He’s top 5 in a league out of 32 starters. That means he’s playing at a high level, which was what the debate was about in the first place. But I’m not sure how you could even rank these QBs without having watched them play.


Again, how are you ranking him 5-7 when you only ranked 4 QBs ahead of him in a previous post (one of which now has 10 INTs on the year and has thrown for less yards) and have now admitted you’re not watching the actual games?

How did I rank Brady in the 5-7 when I only listed four QB better than him? Opposed to just ranking him 8th which comes after 4th? Maybe I fell asleep that day in school when they taught counting to ten, but last time I checked that 5 comes right after 4. But hey, maybe this new math all the cool kids are doing these days have it in a different order. Again, I said he is 5-7 because I said there might be one or two other QBs that might be better than him and I have haven't kept track of the league. That is where 6th and 7th place might come in. Otherwise, he is 5th IMHO. One thing is for sure is that he is not top 3.

And thank you for making the argument I have been making all along which you seem to have a problem with me stating. Brady is clearly on the decline. But since he is falling for the tops of the top heights that no other QB has fallen from, but is still top of the second tier of QBs. Where is your beef with what I am saying.

All I have ever said is that he is not elite (You seem to agree), he is still better than 25-27 other QBs (you also seem to agree), and I don't think he is good enough to carry a bad offense by himself like he did in say 2006.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

He could achieve a career-high in INTs...only 4 more to go.

So what? he could also throw for his most TD in a season since 2007 and second highest in his career but I guess for you that doesn’t count.

you are just disgraceful.

 

[Rob0729]

I remember to this day Silver on the NFL Network completely ripping Brady when Deflategate happened. He said he didn’t believe him. Willie McGinest was the only one on there who defended Tom and said wait until all the details emerge. I don’t think Tom would have anything to do with Silver anymore.

But most of the sports media was saying the same thing about Brady at the time whether they were Brady allies or haters. I don't see that as him being a Brady hater.

 

[moosekill]

So what? he could also throw for his most TD in a season since 2007 and second highest in his career but I guess for you that doesn’t count.

you are just disgraceful.

Someone not rooting for a player that decided to leave our team for another team certainly isn't disgracefully. Grow up.

 

[IllegalContact]

So what? he could also throw for his most TD in a season since 2007 and second highest in his career but I guess for you that doesn’t count.

you are just disgraceful.

all this anger over a buccaneer.........who gives a f*ck......move on already

 

[carmelo15]

I just cant get over the fact that a poster named "TommyBrady12" who used to have Brady's personal brand logo as his avatar goes out of his way to diminish Brady every chance he gets.

when I first saw it I was so confused I was like wait bro you literally have his name as your screen name. Funniest **** ever man

 

[carmelo15]

Crossing your fingers?

has to that will be the go to post stat if Tampa can win some games in the super bowl. Already have one of these guys sayinh Arians isn’t bad despite the evidence and 99% of bucs fans wanting him gone yesterday

 

[amfootball]

So what? he could also throw for his most TD in a season since 2007 and second highest in his career but I guess for you that doesn’t count.

you are just disgraceful.

I just want him to finish with the TD record. He is 4 up on Brees right now. Everything at this point is legacy making for him at his age and all his accomplishments.

He is playing some bad teams the next 4 weeks so getting up near 40 Tds is on the table. Also the team is the most healthy it has been all season too so with the bye, they could really explode on these teams.

 

[PP2]

But there are many here who have been crying for years that the dink and dunk offense sucks and we need receivers to stretch the field. This is what you get when you try to stretch the field.

No, it's not what you get from "stretching the field" it's what you get from an unimaginable and predictable offense. Run on first down, TE's run stick or out, 9 out of 10 times, Tunnel or smoke screens for sake of variety, with near to zero motions. Because there are so many vertical option routes that take five minutes to unfold, Brady is always in 5 or more man protection, so a good nickel or dime package will just shut that offense down.

What I think is really messing Brady up is that the TE's and RB's in our offense are often chip and releases and those were his alerts or hot reads if things went to ****- and that's carrying over as a matter of deeply entrenched habit and only Gronk is used to turning around and seeing the ball halfway on its way to him.

 

[PF_SU]

What I think is really messing Brady up is that the TE's and RB's in our offense are often chip and releases and those were his alerts or hot reads if things went to ****- and that's carrying over as a matter of deeply entrenched habit and only Gronk is used to turning around and seeing the ball halfway on its way to him.

Something that Romo mentioned a few times during the broadcast of the Chiefs game is that Tampa Bay's offense just doesn't have a lot of motion. Back here there were motions all over the place which helped him recognize the coverage prior to the snap. In the Bucs system most times he needs to decipher the coverage while going through his progressions.

 

[PatsWSB47]

Someone not rooting for a player that decided to leave our team for another team certainly isn't disgracefully. Grow up.

"A player that decide to leave our team" After all he did and meant to the team and fans, he's reduced to this? Yeah, that's on the edge of disgraceful. But I get it. When you reduce Tom Brady, the greatest of all time quarterback in the NFL who decided to give 20 of his 43 year old life to the Patriots and their fans to just "a player who decided to leave the team" it gives you a weak stance not to root for him. The problem is for most of us is that we haven't reduced him to that definition. And so we root for him.

 

[Ian]

Hey - quick question:

Given some of the different topics/situations that keep coming up down there, should I add a "Tom Brady Discussion Forum" where this can be broken up to discuss various topics? I feel like limiting it to one thread is kind of tough, especially if something comes up and then it's difficult to go back and find it later since it's buried pages prior.

I can group it with the forums at the top so it's readily accessible, but I'm just curious to get people's thoughts, especially @PatsBoy12 , who obviously started this thread. I'm obviously good with whatever consensus people come to, so just let me know.