Official Post Game Thread - Pats beat Jete

[Nikolai]

the only tanking that can exist is in the construction of the team. You can « tank » if you are a head coach that’s been hired in a crap team and you explain your strategy to the owner.

Flores tanked last year, he traded almost all of his good players to gain futur assets but the team on the field gave everything they had to win games, the talent just wasn’t there. But it wasn’t there purposely. He didn’t tank to get the first pick but he knew he would get a top 5 pick. And with his trades he got if I remember 3 1st round pick. He sacrificed a year to be able to rebuild the team and it worked.

I don’t want the Patriots to throw away games but I would not have been opposed to Bill trading some player to gain assets. I’m afraid that we are gonna finish in the middle without enough quality draft picks to rebuild this year. A thing that is overlook in my opinion is that I don’t think New England is a top market for free agent anymore. Even with all our cap space, i don’t think we can attract game changing free agent.

Seems clear Flores traded talented players that he didn't want on his team. He built a team with the players he wanted, to build the culture he wanted.

 

[1960Pats]

I've got to ask, what motivates Joe Flacco to lose as a professional athlete?

Now, if the coach were to substitute keys players for long periods of time, there may be some questions on the coaching staff.

If an when it ever gets to a point where the ownership and general management of a professional sports team arrange to lose games for better draft picks, that team has a whole lot more issues that what one draft pick can bring them IMO. NO ONE has a crystal ball to know exactly how top draft pics will play as a professional athlete.

The Indiots did it twice, in 2009 to knock Pittsburgh out of the playoffs and in 2011 to get Andrew Luck. They haven't won a thing since and have looked like crap recently. I couldn't support a team that would lose on purpose. I don't know how anyone could.

On a larger scale, Goody & the 32 had no problem handicapping the Pats with trumped up charges against Brady and the team on multiple occasions, while ignoring legitimate violations by other teams. That's no different than wrastlin'

 

[Ring 6]

Which Meyers never did.

Sure he did. He didn’t get up.

 

[sb1]

Which Meyers never did.

He slid. Easy to see by the replay. Rulebook says that's giving yourself up.

 

[JoeA]

The Indiots did it twice, in 2009 to knock Pittsburgh out of the playoffs and in 2011 to get Andrew Luck. They haven't won a thing since and have looked like crap recently. I couldn't support a team that would lose on purpose. I don't know how anyone could.

On a larger scale, Goody & the 32 had no problem handicapping the Pats with trumped up charges against Brady and the team on multiple occasions, while ignoring legitimate violations by other teams. That's no different than wrastlin'

Could you please provide a source of anyone in the years that you spoke of who said that games were thrown? I'm assuming the players tanked and not the chess match of who would or will not be playing. Other than Houston (college whom I lost all respect for), I don't remember any news "worthy" source talking about athletes tanking to increase their standing position the following year.

You would think with all the years and games played, with players no longer being players, guys would be talking about how they tanked games IMO.

I have to laugh, you're complaining about trumped up charges on the Pats when a lot of people feel like the Pats were on the NFL payroll due to some of the breaks they got during key games. The reality is the game is made up of people, and people do make mistakes (like the refs). Thing is, there are so many people that have to be involved in a conspiracy in the NFL that the way I see it, sooner or later someone is going to talk.

 

[p8ryts]

Happy the offense finally got to finish the game after all those last second heartbreaks against Seattle, Denver and Buffalo.

It looks like the offense is getting back to where they were before the COVID shenanigans robbed them of about a month of practice (3 practices in October). Which just reinforces how happy I am that we have this coaching staff. Unfortunately they are still behind schedule because of that cluster**** in October and those tight losses, but if we can continue improving and opening it up, actually play turnover-free football and get those injured players slowly back then there is a shot to end the season with a winning streak and above .500. Granted a lot has to go our way and we will have to create our own luck but there is a path.

On defense we have seen that JC Jackson is not quite the #1 corner yet and that Gilmore has a valuable place that makes the secondary work. Still kudos to JC to fight through it and come up with a huge turnover at a critical moment.

The run defense is what it is until they get Guy and Bentley back. It is just a schematic mismatch for any professional football team to be able to run into sub defense at will. Allen getting injured, Hightower opting out and now the injuries really left them with zero depth.

I know (and frankly don't care) that it was just the Jets. It was still great sign to see a team turning a game around at a point where they were 10 down with 6min to go.

To everyone cheering for a tank or losses go screw yourselves.

Thank goodness. A real Pats fan. I suffered through many bad seasons. This one is tough but as I said before I just don't understand the derision. The Jets had a good plan to attack deep. Flacco had one of his days with the long ball. Mims hadn't played, don't know how much they knew about him. Crowder is very good. Perriman has ability. Flacco and Gase returned to form at the end of the game. Jets ran less than 50 plays, Pats ran more than 80. The front seven is in difficult straits. There are only 3 good players there, John Simon, Lawrence Guy and Adrian Phillips. The rest are not good enough or don't know how to play yet. I don't expect us to win a lot of games this year. I will look for improvement. The offense is not terrible. It's improving. It seems that 20 years of winning has turned the fan base into some entitled, privileged mob. I share Luuked's last sentiment.

 

[sb1]

Could you please provide a source of anyone in the years that you spoke of who said that games were thrown? I'm assuming the players tanked and not the chess match of who would or will not be playing. Other than Houston (college whom I lost all respect for), I don't remember any news "worthy" source talking about athletes tanking to increase their standing position the following year.

You would think with all the years and games played, with players no longer being players, guys would be talking about how they tanked games IMO.

I have to laugh, you're complaining about trumped up charges on the Pats when a lot of people feel like the Pats were on the NFL payroll due to some of the breaks they got during key games. The reality is the game is made up of people, and people do make mistakes (like the refs).

There's exactly two situations where I'd want Belichick fired immediately.

1) if he gets us in another cheating scandal by his doing
2) If he makes his team lose games on purpose

 

[ViperGTS]

Ooo

Yeah, no. Why are you even here if you dont want to see the team win? The 12 men penalty had no effect because they got the stop anyway. This team is not thay bad, they are a few bad breaks from being 6-2 or even 7-1

Why am I here? Because this tam isn't a 6-2 or 7-1 team. I have watched this team for 20 years be elite and this isn't one of those teams. I have long term views. This team IS that bad.

 

[JoeA]

There's exactly two situations where I'd want Belichick fired immediately.

1) if he gets us in another cheating scandal by his doing
2) If he makes his team lose games on purpose

Lets get something straight, I was never a New England fan before this year. Do I think BB cheats? No more than what every other team probably has done. Thing is, because of their winning ways, people were looking for a reason to blame them IMO. I thought that even when I didn't like the pats.

Thing is, people hated the pats and their fans because they always won. Did the pats get lucky breaks? No more on any given Sunday that other teams got at times due to bad officiating. As mentioned, IMO people were just looking for excuses to nail something to the pats because they won.

Perhaps I'm naive, but I would never believe BB would lose a game on purpose to help his draft picks.

The other thing is I find it oh so ironic that a lot of people here seem no better than other fans of other teams either wanting or thinking that their team is tanking...

 

[ViperGTS]

In 2021, the AFC East QBs will be as follows:
Bills - Allen
Fins - Tua
Jets - Lawrence
Pats - ????

I can tell you who. If it isn't Stidham then is QB crapshoot. Thats who, unless someone drops a la Rodgers in '05.

 

[Sfpat]

The risk of tanking in the NFL is still not getting the one player who can make a difference. Think Andrew Luck, a generational talent who just didn't cut it and retired early due to injuries. There are many QBs picked first who bombed in the NFL. The NFL isn't the NBA where one player (other than a QB) can change a teams fortunes.

 

[sb1]

Lets get something straight, I was never a New England fan before this year. Do I think BB cheats? No more than what every other team probably has done. Thing is, because of their winning ways, people were looking for a reason to blame them IMO. I thought that even when I didn't like the pats.

Thing is, people hated the pats and their fans because they always won. Did the pats get lucky breaks? No more on any given Sunday that other teams got at times due to bad officiating. As mentioned, IMO people were just looking for excuses to nail something to the pats because they won.

Perhaps I'm naive, but I would never believe BB would lose a game on purpose to help his draft picks.

The other thing is I find it oh so ironic that a lot of people here seem no better than other fans of other teams either wanting or thinking that their team is tanking...

You're probably right. I can't speak for other teams but Bill and the Pats were already caught cheating with Spygate. That's on him by his own admission. If he was stupid enough to bring us into another scandal like that again I'd want him gone.

With that said Bill is a football historian and I'd love to think that he would not lose games on purpose. And if Kraft ordered him to do it, I think he would walk.

 

[sb1]

LOL. If I didn't know any better it sounds like the media hates seeing us suck and is pulling for the Patriots to right this ship.

 

[luuked]

Teams don't tank in the NFL. There is zero benefit to the "tankers". A crap record gets you canned. Which is exactly what happened with the Colts when they supposedly "tanked". Team president, GM and coaching staff - all fired. Half the roster - gone.

So how did they benefit from "tanking".

It. Doesn't. Happen.

I can see a GM trading away assets to stock up in an otherwise pointless season like Grier did last year in Miami. Especially if he knows that him and the coach are save no matter how the season goes. But that doesn't mean that coaches and players will phone it in on the practice field and during gameday.

 

[sb1]

I can see a GM trading away assets to stock up in an otherwise pointless season like Grier did last year in Miami. Especially if he knows that him and the coach are save no matter how the season goes. But that doesn't mean that coaches and players will phone it in on the practice field and during gameday.

Yeah. I wouldn’t call that tanking but that does happen. That’s not torpedoing your season and losing games on purpose. That does not happen.
Plus I’m sure Goodell and 345 Park Ave would be too happy to investigate any “tank” by the patriots and strip that first round pick.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

This win felt great. Don't care how ugly or against who.

After four straight losses, you can't help but smile after a win!

 

[captain stone]

He slid. Video is clear. Doesn’t matter why he was getting up or not. By rule it’s a dead ball. Even if he didn’t I doubt any defensive player in this league is going to back up from him on a bang bang play.

He slid to catch the ball, and that makes it different than sliding while already a Runner.

 

[sb1]

He slid to catch the ball, and that makes it different than sliding while already a Runner.

Is it? I stand corrected if that’s true but I don’t see anything in the rules that makes a distinction. It’s also not really clear by replay if he had the football before he slid. If he did that means he was a “runner” and the slide ends the play.

I also know there’s a time limit to staying down before you are assumed to have given yourself up,

 

[JoeA]

You're probably right. I can't speak for other teams but Bill and the Pats were already caught cheating with Spygate. That's on him by his own admission. If he was stupid enough to bring us into another scandal like that again I'd want him gone.

With that said Bill is a football historian and I'd love to think that he would not lose games on purpose. And if Kraft ordered him to do it, I think he would walk.

The impression I got reading between the lines from spygate was that a lot of people did exactly what the pats did, and some ex football coaches claimed the were amazed at how people had selected memory loss when they nailed BB for it and they were criticizing BB for doing it when they did it as well. At that point, I chalked it up to a NFL commessioner who wanted to play Hitler (and from what I've seen of him, really don't like him on the way he has handled the entire league in the past).

And I do agree with you about BB walking if he was told to do something where he thought it was cheating.

As I mentioned, I was actually glad I stayed up Monday to watch the entire game. If I was going to make a comment about Cam, I would want to watch the entire game (normally I'm in bed by 1900 as I'm up early for work). I thought it was a good game, thought the Pats came back well during the second half, and what do I see when I get on this board? People complaining about a win and talking about teams tanking.

 

[Joker]

The impression I got reading between the lines from spygate was that a lot of people did exactly what the pats did, and some ex football coaches claimed the were amazed at how people had selected memory loss when they nailed BB for it and they were criticizing BB for doing it when they did it as well. At that point, I chalked it up to a NFL commessioner who wanted to play Hitler (and from what I've seen of him, really don't like him on the way he has handled the entire league in the past).

And I do agree with you about BB walking if he was told to do something where he thought it was cheating.

As I mentioned, I was actually glad I stayed up Monday to watch the entire game. If I was going to make a comment about Cam, I would want to watch the entire game (normally I'm in bed by 1900 as I'm up early for work). I thought it was a good game, thought the Pats came back well during the second half, and what do I see when I get on this board? People complaining about a win and talking about teams tanking.

you don't know a godyamned thing about "Spygate" or any other trumped up phony "gates".