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It Is Belichick Time

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Luuked....I understand the points above regarding the various WR's that were contracted ie the good and the bad and about them not working out , so does this just support that there should be a greater emphasis in drafting younger players and developing them ? Then I hear from other posters that drafting WR's is a crap shoot so is this just something that never is resolved one way or another. ??? Was this just made worse in that as others have said Brady wouod not throw to rookies.....seems a no win ?
 
N'Keal Harry, Josh Gordon, Antonio Brown and Mo Sanu. It didn't work out, but he was hardly ignored.
No help at all.

Its like a list of NFL WR flunkies. All have issues. Brown and Gordon can play, but are nuts upstairs. Gordon quit the previous season and BB took him back because he was cheap. Harry is big and slow and had injury issues in college. Sanu was all NE could find so late in the season except for Emanuel Sanders the better option. True to form when given the choice of Sanders or Sanu, BB picks the worst one. Unless you like throwing away a 2nd pick for about 8 games of WR service.

NE receivers went from bad in 2018 to worst in 2019.

The same 2 receiving options that led NE in 2018 and 2019 (White and Edelman) are the exact same 2 players that the 2020 season is riding on today.
 
Am I the only one looking forward to the season? I'm really excited to see how some of these young players go - Harry, Harris, Gunner, Asiasi Winovich, Dugger, Uche, Cowart, Bentley, Jennings, Rivers etc all could have significant roles.

Sure things could be tough early but as long as we see some development I'll be happy. Think we could see significant improvement by the end of the year and you never know where we might be come December. It's good to be the underdog with a chip on our shoulder again. I reckon Bill is relishing it.
 
Am I the only one looking forward to the season? I'm really excited to see how some of these young players go - Harry, Harris, Gunner, Asiasi Winovich, Dugger, Uche, Cowart, Bentley, Jennings, Rivers etc all could have significant roles.

Sure things could be tough early but as long as we see some development I'll be happy. Think we could see significant improvement by the end of the year and you never know where we might be come December. It's good to be the underdog with a chip on our shoulder again. I reckon Bill is relishing it.

and who plays when these guys get injured?
 
Am I the only one looking forward to the season? I'm really excited to see how some of these young players go - Harry, Harris, Gunner, Asiasi Winovich, Dugger, Uche, Cowart, Bentley, Jennings, Rivers etc all could have significant roles.

Sure things could be tough early but as long as we see some development I'll be happy. Think we could see significant improvement by the end of the year and you never know where we might be come December. It's good to be the underdog with a chip on our shoulder again. I reckon Bill is relishing it.

No you are not the only one. I am excited to see a new look. It will be a different year, and that is ok. No one knows how this will play out, but it could be pretty cool.
 
No help at all.

Its like a list of NFL WR flunkies. All have issues. Brown and Gordon can play, but are nuts upstairs. Gordon quit the previous season and BB took him back because he was cheap. Harry is big and slow and had injury issues in college. Sanu was all NE could find so late in the season except for Emanuel Sanders the better option. True to form when given the choice of Sanders or Sanu, BB picks the worst one. Unless you like throwing away a 2nd pick for about 8 games of WR service.

NE receivers went from bad in 2018 to worst in 2019.

The same 2 receiving options that led NE in 2018 and 2019 (White and Edelman) are the exact same 2 players that the 2020 season is riding on today.

Well, first, Edelman and White are OUTSTANDING receiving options, so that's perfectly fine. But also:

- Hopefully a full season from Harry, and we'll see if he ends up being good or not. They spent a 1st round pick on him so it's not like they didn't try to improve at WR.

- Gunner has shown remarkable improvement from everything the coaches, players, and reporters are saying. He could end up possibly being a terrific player when all is said and done.

- They drafted a couple of TEs that have shown indications that they could be pretty good - Asiasi particularly. That would be a huge upgrade at the TE position.

- When Harris returns, he can both run and catch, so he would represent a more dual-threat back than Sony, making the offense less predictable, which will help.

- Cam is a great runner at QB. That adds a new dimension to the offense they haven't had since Flutie or Grogan really. And Cam is much better than either of them.


So there's lots of room for improvement, and lots of reason to be optimistic that the receiving (from all positions) will be better this year. Look, I get that you're really down on the Patriots and on Belichick. It oozes out of you with every post. ("True to form...BB picks the worst one").

So let me ask you: Who would you rather have making these decisions for the Patriots than Belichick? That's not a snarky question. That's a legitimate one.
 
Luuked....I understand the points above regarding the various WR's that were contracted ie the good and the bad and about them not working out , so does this just support that there should be a greater emphasis in drafting younger players and developing them ? Then I hear from other posters that drafting WR's is a crap shoot so is this just something that never is resolved one way or another. ??? Was this just made worse in that as others have said Brady wouod not throw to rookies.....seems a no win ?

The way I read their team building on offense is that they think that most of the success comes from their playbook/system and the way Brady was directing it and not so much the exact talent of players especially if you manage to have a 1-2 playmaking chess pieces already.

The other assumption I make based on how they kept opting for veterans over early WR picks is that they thought its cheaper/easier/faster to bring in veterans to fill specific roles than to develop that young talent themselves. And with Brady getting older it made more and more sense to try skipping over the developmental phase and getting vets who can do certain things well (e.g. Hogan) while it also decreased the risk of ending up with players that might end up not "getting it". The system is king.

But reality is that they have not found another LaFell or Hogan for a while in the bargain bin (Dorsett didn't grow into a bigger role, CP was too limited as a WR but too expensive as a gadget guy, Gordon was toast, AB a nutcase) and the chess pieces like Gronk and Edelman have gotten older and/or retired.

Personally, I can see how there is less value to be gained from investing any kind of major asset (whether thats an early pick or cap space) into WRs/TEs than into the defense or trenches while you have Gronk/Edelman being the motor of an offense that consistently has been in the top 3 for almost 15 years straight. It all comes back what gives you more bang for the buck. The return on investment on signing e.g. Gilmore in 2017 is much bigger than e.g. OBJ in an offense were 75% of targets will go to Gronk/Edelman/White. That doesn't mean I agree with every move they made. The way they the TE position unfolded over the last 2 years was simply a failure.


I think Brady's dissatisfaction with rookies has been overly dramatized by fans and the media. I don't think Brady had any specific issue with rookies but he expected laser precision when it came to execution from everybody. When we understand a subject really well we often completely underestimate how absolutely simple tasks can appear more challenging to people that don't have our experience because we take a lot of little things for granted. A lot of things that are obvious to the expert are non-obvious for beginners or even the intermediates.

I think his demand for perfection was a challenge for rookies because they not only had to learn a really big and convoluted playbook but also had to make the jump from student athlete to being a pro as a young adult in a totally new environment. Which again brings us to why it made sense to me that they were looking at vets more than draft picks.

I don't know if any of this answers your question but there are so many facets to all of this. The truth is that to sustain success under a salary cap over more than a decade you necessarily will have to rely on a combination of draft picks working out and veteran role players while trying to increase your return on investment when it comes to your assets. There are other models where instead you think in windows & accept rebuilding years or just keep leveraging your future like the Saints but none of them are sustainable.

This is also what made our run since 2011 so unique.. we never mortgaged the future or thought in windows, but consistently rebuild all units while going to 8 AFCCGs straight.
 
BB brought in AB last year a few weeks into the season. I thought that was of substance. (Better have been at $9m guaranteed and $15m with escalators.)
Yeah that was the last move of substance to which I was referring. (Not sure what the last sentence means...typo?)
 
Belichick does more with less...so my post is in no way a knock on his ability to coach a defense. But look at all the quality defenders you guys loose every year. It’s insane. The fact he fields a B+ defense most years is a testament to his ability coach up average talent into his scheme
Welcome to the board...Without de-railing the thread too far, how to do think the Falcons will do this season, especially vs the re-loaded TB & NO squads?
 

And I will admit to you that from what I’ve heard since Tom Brady departed, the Patriots did need a vibe change in the locker room because a dour Brady, which start to crop up at the end of 2018, took its toll on the Patriots last season. It was so bad that some of his teammates have admittedly privately that it was better for all involved that Brady moved on if he was going to have the same attitude this season.

Patriots ex-teammates to Tom:

Yeah they'll be getting a vibe change all right...from a winning one...
 
No help at all.

Its like a list of NFL WR flunkies. All have issues. Brown and Gordon can play, but are nuts upstairs. Gordon quit the previous season and BB took him back because he was cheap. Harry is big and slow and had injury issues in college. Sanu was all NE could find so late in the season except for Emanuel Sanders the better option. True to form when given the choice of Sanders or Sanu, BB picks the worst one. Unless you like throwing away a 2nd pick for about 8 games of WR service.

NE receivers went from bad in 2018 to worst in 2019.

The same 2 receiving options that led NE in 2018 and 2019 (White and Edelman) are the exact same 2 players that the 2020 season is riding on today.

You said Belichick didn't try to help at WR. Obviously he did try -- he spent 1st and 2nd round picks on WR's -- he just didn't succeed.
 
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Mark Morse
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