Lifelong Panthers fan AMA (ask me anything) Cam Edition

[Ring 6]

These things happen sometimes, young fella..

So how many of ours were fixed?

 

[lancerman]

Here’s what it comes down too, when Cam has been healthy he’s been one of the best QB’s in the league and elevated the team without having stacked offenses and he’s arguably the best “creator” on offense. Now if he can’t be healthy that all goes out the window but at the current moment Cam Newton was as good as anybody to go grab and see if he can do that here and if being with Bill will be the thing that gives his game the structure he needed to finish the job.

If people want to complain about press conferences and his wardrobe have at it I guess but it’s very shallow. He’s no more of a showboat than Gronkowski. And if people want to complain about losing a SB I’d like to remind people that Cam and Brady had virtually the same stat line two weeks apart against the same team.

We know Hoyer isn’t and never has been the answer and Stidham is an unknown. We aren’t locked into Cam if he can’t be healthy, but he’s clearly the best bet we have.

 

[lancerman]

@Conflicted Panthers fan You'll find on this board that people actually think a guy (Stidum) has the advantage of winning the starting job just because he's been with the team for a year. And in that year, he took over for Brady in a blowout win against the Jets (up 30-7 in the 4th Q), only to get benched immediately after his inability to complete basic throws and tossing a pick six. This board has a weird obsession with this guy.

True story.

I think a lot of this board compensated for losing Brady by thinking Stidham had to be the guy because he was the only one left and that Belichick wouldn’t have him in that position if he didn’t absolutely believe in him. So based off nothing but wishful thinking people did what a lot of other fans in similar positions do and believe the best about an unknown quantity.

Then Cam got signed and it clashed with all the faith that was put in Stidham because now Belichick was in fact looking for something else and Stidham being the big savior was in doubt. So that’s where that backlash came from. It was always mostly emotional. No reason to think Stidham is better than Nathan Peterman another guy who looked good in practice and pre season but couldn’t handle the big lights. Not to say Stidham can’t, but I put way more value on his appearance vs a very bad Jets team than reports out of practice

 

[lancerman]

I'm not missing anything.

You are certainly entitled to be excited to see what Cam might do as a Patriot (I too am excited to see what he might do) but conflating his prospects with HOF'er Steve Young's accomplishments is completely illogical and pure fantasy...

The only reason Young didn't "do anything" prior to age 30 is because he didn't have the opportunity to play on a regular basis.

Hey, quick question, what's your position on the Wonderlic test?

Oh and what about the other thing?

Steve Young played 4 full seasons before making and winning a SB. Cam played 5 before making a SB and losing it. Steve actually did it though after playing professional ball for 11 seasons which is about where Cam is at.

Here are the differences. Young was on a stacked team with Jerry Rice and Deion Sanders who are the best ever at their positions and they played a Chargers team in the pitiful AFC at the time that was among the worst to ever be in a SB while Cam played one of the best SB era defenses ever.

Not saying Cam is as good. But let’s not elevate Young to god status. Especially when there are things on his legs that Can can do much better than Young could dream

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I don't care what tf babushka or do rag or whatever he wears after the game. Frack, he can spend his off season guest-starring on Ru Paul's drag race, I don't give a damn. If he can still come back from injury like he's done in the past, if he can play like it's 2015 again... happy camper. Of course, if this were 2015 I could still eat bacon cheeseburgers without much trepidation and I'm pretty sure all my present medications still lay in my then-future.

 

[RASTAN99]

Uh...not quite accurate. Young started at QB for Tampa Bay in his 2nd season 14 games...and he made 101 and 92 attempts in 11 and 10 games in 88 and 89 before siitng out almost completely in 1990 because of Montana.

Steve Young Career Stats | NFL.com

In his first 6 season in the league Steve Young only started 29 games --- basically unheard of for a future Hall of Famer.

To reiterate, the only reason Young didn't "do anything" prior to age 30 is because he didn't have the opportunity to play on a regular basis.

 

[RASTAN99]

QUOTE="Conflicted Panthers fan, post: 5921964, member: 40667"]C

If his health wasn’t an issue, Carolina wouldn’t have let him go and if they did another team would have picked him up long ago.

Work ethic? Intellect?

[/QUOTE]

You know not of what you speak...

 

[Joker]

In his first 6 season in the league Steve Young only started 29 games --- basically unheard of for a future Hall of Famer.

To reiterate, the only reason Young didn't "do anything" prior to age 30 is because he didn't have the opportunity to play on a regular basis.

he started 14 games for Tampa Bay in his second season...no opportunity?

 

[RASTAN99]

...if he can play like it's 2015 again... happy camper.

There-in lay the rub.

In you're opinion what are the odds he plays like "it's 2015 again"?

Personally I thought the Panthers would (and should) definitely retain Cam under the contract that was in place --- that they didn't, combined with the fact he didn't get a legit offer from any other NFL team....

....raises a lot of questions.

So here's a question, in the somewhat recent past who is on the list of players BB extended a lifeline to that nobody else in the NFL would touch?

Which of them stuck for more than a cup of coffee?

 

[RASTAN99]

he started 14 games for Tampa Bay in his second season...no opportunity?

Nope.

The Buc's fielded a JUCO team that season and went 2-14....this doesn't constitute an opportunity.

 

[luuked]

I think a lot of this board compensated for losing Brady by thinking Stidham had to be the guy because he was the only one left and that Belichick wouldn’t have him in that position if he didn’t absolutely believe in him. So based off nothing but wishful thinking people did what a lot of other fans in similar positions do and believe the best about an unknown quantity.

Then Cam got signed and it clashed with all the faith that was put in Stidham because now Belichick was in fact looking for something else and Stidham being the big savior was in doubt. So that’s where that backlash came from. It was always mostly emotional. No reason to think Stidham is better than Nathan Peterman another guy who looked good in practice and pre season but couldn’t handle the big lights. Not to say Stidham can’t, but I put way more value on his appearance vs a very bad Jets team than reports out of practice

I don't see how people assuming the coaches are excited about Stidham and a Newton signing in June for what is almost vet minimum are mutually exclusive. To me there is zero disconnect between those two thoughts.

Stidham is clearly someone the coaches felt comfortable with rolling otherwise they would have not waited until a month before camp to sign someone else. Instead they waited through FA and the draft and didn't really do anything.

Now, that doesn't mean he is a guaranteed to be a good player. It only means he has most probably shown the kind of growth and improvement they were hoping for in practice situations. How any of that translates into game day performance is a totally different question that only Stidham can answer when he takes the field.

The bottom line is that signing an experienced and successful QB like Cam on a contract with no guarantees is a move anyone would do 10/10 times. It is maybe one of the best risk/reward signings in FA history.

 

[Uptown]

In his first 6 season in the league Steve Young only started 29 games --- basically unheard of for a future Hall of Famer.

To reiterate, the only reason Young didn't "do anything" prior to age 30 is because he didn't have the opportunity to play on a regular basis.

Not entirely true. Young actually started 39/65 games his first 7 seasons. That’s actually a pretty generous “opportunity” to show what you’re made of. Quite simply; though hindsight is 20/20, Tampa Bay made a huge mistake by trading Young in ‘87. However, to be fair, Young didn’t play well due to lack of talent/inept management. Point is, roughly 40/65 games is plenty of time to show whether or not you’re cut out for this league. Guys like Gannon, Warner and Young are outliers though..

 

[PatsFanInVa]

There-in lay the rub.

In you're opinion what are the odds he plays like "it's 2015 again"?

I'm not an oddsmaker, but I am appreciative of the character reviled as "Bill the GM," and his apparent risk-management approach to football.

We don't know what's in his mind, but when he can get a vet player with super star potential on a super cheap deal he does it. Some stick, some don't. Some get it, some don't.

The cheaper they are, the more shots he can take. He'll put some real money on the table in other situations, and sometimes get burned. (See Antonio Brown)

But these 1-year close to free deals only have to pan out once every few years to be worth pursuing as a strategy.

He can preach all he wants about every year being different, but I doubt he's not thinking along the lines of "shots on goal." Not every time they become possible, but when the spread between upside and present market value is high enough, it becomes a no-brainer. He knows that these days a QB can last many more years than Cam has endured, and Cam's upside, paired with a painless buy-in, is a great match. I don't know whether he sees full 2015 form as a possibility. I think he might be there for Stidham to have to earn it. I'm clueless b/c Stidham has no NFL track record.

In the 2000ies, we hit with Randy Moss and Corey Dillon... I am going by addled memory, but I believe both came in on cap friendly (i.e., backloaded for Dillon, cheap 1 "prove it" year for Moss) deals after they started being thought of as toxic at their old teams. We then whiffed with Ochocinco (again, I believe that was an eminently absorbable cap hit).

These guys can correct my money memories on those examples. I dont have a strong impression on how expensive or cheap Welker was the same year we got Moss, but I'm pretty sure he was cheap for what we got

Bill the GM accepts that some stuff will not work out. He tries to protect against downside risk, valuate players by their worth to the team for the terms of the deal, etc., and have a "decay" assumption that makes something like sense. I think this last accounts for his disbelief that Brady would finally get fed up with him

Personally I thought the Panthers would (and should) definitely retain Cam under the contract that was in place --- that they didn't, combined with the fact he didn't get a legit offer from any other NFL team....

....raises a lot of questions.

So here's a question, in the somewhat recent past who is on the list of players BB extended a lifeline to that nobody else in the NFL would touch?

Which of them stuck for more than a cup of coffee?

I went back to the less recent past, because at least going by memory, that's "playing the hits." For every Randy Moss and Wes Welker, you can absorb quite a few OchoStinkos, as long as the price is right (Antonio Brown, not so much... that one just baffles me in retrospect. I think his off-field stupidity was worse than BB thought and he was blindsided by the extent of the crapstorm.)

So, what I think is, if you'll play a year on a cheap deal, you can let your skills dictate your future in NE. The Pats get an obvious advantage. The player in question gets to renegotiate down the line if he outperforms a very outoperform-able deal... and might get a ring.

In Cam's case, he has the possibility of following up the work of the GOAT QB, but he'd have the advantage of playing for the GOAT coach. So, it all is what it is... a familiar-ish fact pattern seems to be emerging. They at least think he can be worth a quite low figure, if he hits incentives. I am sure they are rooting for him to hit the incentives.

Greg Olsen says we got the greatest deal in the universe, which means precisely squat until games are played. (Probably in 2021 if you ask me.)

 

[slam]

I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if it's been asked before. I'm being lazy.

If Cam starts this years and plays like an above average starting QB, would you then expect him to resign with the Patriots or seek the best possible contract regardless of team?

 

[goheels22002]

Is there a chance the coaching staff won't change the offense that much week to week? That may be more something you can do when you have a QB who is cerebral, a perfectionist and a film student and the like.

I seriously doubt it. Belichick's approach to the game is to take away the other team's strengths and exploit their weaknesses. That is different from team to team.

The signing of Cam Newton at a veteran minimum with lots of incentives signals that the Patriots believe he is up to the task, but they're not willing to risk the farm on that belief.

 

[1960Pats]

@Conflicted Panthers fan You'll find on this board that people actually think a guy (Stidum) has the advantage of winning the starting job just because he's been with the team for a year. This board has a weird obsession with this guy. that

True story.

You have any examples of those people? I don't recall them.

 

[goheels22002]

Talk about making up what you want....
They were 1 game under .500 outside of 2015 so they weren’t sitting in a lot of leads.



With the GOAT they couldn’t win a WC game. So you are saying Newton is better than Brady?

There were a lot of players missing from the 2018 edition of the Patriots by the time they fell apart at the end of the season, particularly on offense. It was not Brady's fault they fizzled in 2019.

 

[Ring 6]

There were a lot of players mission from the 2018 edition of the Patriots by the time they fell apart at the end of the season, particularly on offense. It was not Brady's fault they fizzled in 2018.

I think you mean 2019 but injuries are injuries and there aren’t a heck of a lot of guys missing that will be magically back.
The 2020 version isn’t dramatically different than the 2019 version which had the best defense in the nfl.

 

[Ring 6]

Steve Young played 4 full seasons before making and winning a SB. Cam played 5 before making a SB and losing it. Steve actually did it though after playing professional ball for 11 seasons which is about where Cam is at.

Here are the differences. Young was on a stacked team with Jerry Rice and Deion Sanders who are the best ever at their positions and they played a Chargers team in the pitiful AFC at the time that was among the worst to ever be in a SB while Cam played one of the best SB era defenses ever.

Not saying Cam is as good. But let’s not elevate Young to god status. Especially when there are things on his legs that Can can do much better than Young could dream

Wait are you arguing Cam Newton is a better qb them Steve Young? Seriously?

 

[1960Pats]

I was thinking of this yesterday. Brady has had more hairstyles than almost anyone in the league at one point between 06-12. Once and a great while someone would poke fun but nothing to the effect of this. Where people think it's actually a big deal.

Idk Idk

Which people here are making a big deal out of his hair? I think most fans here don't care about anything but his football.

I can say this about Cam. He has certainly gotten the word on keeping quiet. That must be difficult for him.