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I'm on Team Stidham


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Stidham beat out Brady? When did that happen?
I mean, if you want to pick that nit, go ahead. I'll rephrase.

Belichick trusted Stidham enough last year to release the existing, veteran, backup QB who was well-liked, and praised for his leadership and insights.

Fair?
 
I'd like to see him go 3 drives without a pick 6.

Of course I'm rooting for him but words from people aren't going to make me think the QB position is solved.
A sample population of one game is not statistically significant.
 
I mean, if you want to pick that nit, go ahead. I'll rephrase.

Belichick trusted Stidham enough last year to release the existing, veteran, backup QB who was well-liked, and praised for his leadership and insights.

Fair?
It’s not fair. What’s fair is Brady apparently/reportedly had zero interest in coming back here. We all hope the best for Stidham, but he is what he is - a highly touted high school recruit that never lived up to his billing. Hopefully the team can make something out of him, but saying they would rather have him than Brady is not correct based on everything they know.
 
Hopefully the team can make something out of him, but saying they would rather have him than Brady is not correct based on everything they know.
I never said they would rather have Stidham than Brady.

I said Stidham beat out Hoyer to be the #2 last summer.
 
I never said they would rather have Stidham than Brady.

I said Stidham beat out Hoyer to be the #2 last summer.
Ahhhh then I misunderstood. I thought you originally said he beat out Brady. No disagreement with Hoyer even though he’s cheeks.
 
Beating out Hoyer? That's like being picked second to last for kickball
 
Sanu is not terrible and it would be crazy to give up on him. He showed flashes of ability last year and was certainly hampered by high ankle sprain for which he had surgery. He is a decent # 2 or # 3 WR

Giving up on Michel is crazy. The blocking sucked last year. If he gets even average blocking he is a good runner. Also I think his potential as a pass catching RB has not been tapped.

Unfortunately, I agree with you about Harry. Terrible draft pick. Can not separate from defenders, low football IQ. Can not fix those things. How they picked him over Samuel and AJ Brown is unfathomable.

Our WR Scouts should be fired
 
.

If they would bring on a Dalton, Winston, Newton for a $5M prove it type contract I could live with it but I do not think their demands are remotely in the ballpark. Would prefer Winston of the 3 as he is still young and he may have some upside. Dalton may be a better short term fit but I do not see how he ever leads Pats to promised land.

Yes. I would consider bring in someone for a $6M cap hit and up to a $16M future dead cap hit. The $16M will seem like peanuts in a couple years. I believe that this bridge would make the team competitive during the transition period 2020-2022. There are likely many to choose from. Some of us would choose among Dalton, Newton, Winston, and even Bortles.

For me, Winston would be the best choice. He's young and needs a new system. Throwing 50-50's all day put him near the top of the passing lists, but also resulted in lots of interceptions. Winston has talent; the patriots have coaches and a stable front office. [and yes, I am well aware that we need to acquire 4 or so more players to throw to.

5 year contract (with voidable years and/or options)
BONUS $20M
2020 salary $2M
2020 cap $6M
deferred cap $ 16M
2021-2022 terms TBD, but they don't affect the 2020 cap
NLTBE performance incentives would likely be added
 
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Sanu is not terrible and it would be crazy to give up on him. He showed flashes of ability last year and was certainly hampered by high ankle sprain for which he had surgery. He is a decent # 2 or # 3 WR

Giving up on Michel is crazy. The blocking sucked last year. If he gets even average blocking he is a good runner. Also I think his potential as a pass catching RB has not been tapped.

Unfortunately, I agree with you about Harry. Terrible draft pick. Can not separate from defenders, low football IQ. Can not fix those things. How they picked him over Samuel and AJ Brown is unfathomable.

I don't know what to expect from a healthy Sanu and a healthy sophomore Harry. More than 2019 is a very low bar. That being said, I think that we're fine at backup and role playing WR's with Sanu, Harry, Byrd, Meyers and Gunner (competing for WR3, WR4, and WR5/R. Perhaps, one can step up to #2, or not.

I think that we need 2 TE's and 2 WR's. I can only hope that Bill agrees.
 
Beating out Hoyer? That's like being picked second to last for kickball
Counterpoint...

1. The greatest coach in the history of the sport has now seen fit to sign Brian Hoyer three times.

2. Brian Hoyer owns a career record of 10-6 as the starting quarterback of the Cleveland Browns.

For me, Winston would be the best choice. He's young and needs a new system. Throwing 50-50's all day put him near the top of the passing lists, but also resulted in lots of interceptions. Winston has talent; the patriots have coaches and a stable front office. [and yes, I am well aware that we need to acquire 4 or so more players to throw to.


I don't see a lot of 50-50 INTs there. I see poor reads, I see some inaccurate throws, and I see a ton of bad decisions. He's five years into his career - he is what he is.

I'd rather take a look at Stidham than bring in a proven mediocrity like Winston or Dalton.
 
Is anyone on team Tuggy right now?
 
I think it's good to have a couple different options. Especially to start camp. Stid, hoyer? But last year everyone cried about the other players.. start with a TE.
 
The thing is that it is not even a question of the individual skill of Hoyer, Stidham, Winston, Newton or Dalton. People keep looking at it in almost a Madden or Fantasy perspective where everyone has a skill rating when there is much more to it.

Winston and Dalton come with a substantially bigger cap hit. Tyrod Taylor and Fitzpatrick are making about 8M this year. So it is doubtful you'd get any of Winston, Newton or Dalton for below 10M. Thats like 2-3 middle class depth players anywhere else on the roster.

Then maybe more importantly Stidham and particularly Hoyer have experience with the system and the coaches have experience with them so it is easier to project how to build the roster and an offense to support them.

Given the COVID sitation who knows when a) you can actually sign any of the other QBs with physicals being suspended right now and b) when you actually get them onto the field to see how they do with your offense.

I get that many fans are often gravitating to the unknown because it is tempting to imagine hitting the big jackpot. But from my POV it is easier to run an offense with a potentially above-average QB where you understand their shortcomings and strengths. Because you can scheme around them.

In terms of Stidham they also get to form and polish him whereas others come in with a lot of pre-existing baggage in terms of decision making and maybe even fundamentals that you might have to get out of their system.

Point being it is not as straight forward to just say Newton or Winston are clearly more talented than Hoyer so WTF are we doing here.
 
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I’m on team Brady/AB. We’re way better at football, but your really long rationalization is cool too.
Don’t be a Brady pouter and try to take your toys and go home
 
Apologies in advance for the long post. I've had some time on my hands the past few days.

After the shock of Brady leaving wore off, I started looking more closely at Jarrett Stidham to try and form an opinion about what the Patriots have at Quarterback moving forward. After a few days of reading stories and watching videos, I have to say... I'm on Team Stidham at the moment.

Why? Let's start with what the coaches say about him:

Bill Belichick: "Jarrett is a smart kid. He picks things up very quickly. He has a good grasp of the offense given where he is in his career. He’s handled everything we’ve thrown at him. In practice, he does a good job. He gets a lot of passes on our defense and when he has the opportunity to get the offensive snaps, he’s prepared and does a good job of those."

Josh McDaniels: "I really think he’s got a great attitude. He’s improved during the course of the year and he’s ready to go each week."

Stidham's throwing coach, Jordan Palmer: “I think he is a star, and he is going to be a big-time franchise quarterback. I have felt that way for a couple years now. I’m totally fine saying that. I don’t care that he went fourth round. I think he is legitimate."

“He is going to be the leader of New England for a long time, whenever that starts. Go ahead and jump on that bandwagon.”​

Now let's examine what the defensive backs who face him in practice are saying:

Stephon Gilmore: "He’s done good. He gives us a great look each and every week, throwing good balls... I feel like he’s gotten better."

Duron Harmon: "You see throws out there that he makes where you’re just like, 'wow'. You can tell he has the intangibles to be a good pro quarterback."

"There are other things he does and (it shows) he’s young, but it’s all a part of the learning process and the learning curve. He’s a guy who comes to work each and every day. He gives us the same attitude. He’s a great teammate. Looking forward to when he gets his chance to see what he can do."

Terrence Brooks: "There have been a few throws that we see in practice where we're like, 'Damn, that was a nice one. He's getting better.'"

"We like that guy. He's a good guy. Good locker room guy. Teammates love him."

"You see a guy who has really tight coverage on somebody, and he finds a place to put it where the DB can't get it. Those are the type of throws that you classify as 'NFL throws.'"

"He moves well. He can get in places he needs to get and make throws he needs to make."

"He’s made some great throws in practice where everybody takes notice. Like, 'Hey man, this dude is getting really good.'"​

How about the guys who are catching his passes?

Phillip Dorsett: "You see [his talent] every day. When he's doing scout team, he has a cannon. He's got a rocket for an arm. I'd say that's his biggest strength. He can make every throw. He throws a pretty catchable pass."

"He’s a good quarterback. I like the way he throws the ball. He spins it."

"He seems real cool and collected. He takes criticism well, doesn’t get down on himself and just goes out there and plays football."

Jacoby Meyers: "I know if we're doing scout team or something, he makes some throws where it's not really our offense and he's just showing his arm off, he's made some pretty crazy throws. I mean, he definitely has a lot of arm talent, and he shows it here and there."

"On the move. In the pocket. He can step in and do all of that."

"It’s easy to follow him on the field. It’s easy to listen to him. He’ll tell you what he wants and how he wants it and you just do it."​

All right, those guys are all on his team. What about some more neutral takes from NFL Draft Analysts?

Daniel Jeremiah: "He throws the best ball out of anybody in this draft. You put them all in shorts and a t-shirt and you would pick Jarrett Stidham as the guy. He’s a great athlete - he just wasn’t a great fit in that Auburn offense after transferring from Baylor."

"Operates in the gun. They throw a lot of those quick tunnel screens, a lot of those short underneath throws because when they do try to go down the field, he’s under constant pressure. That offensive line was out-manned in the SEC this year and as a result, he made some wild throws and missed some easy lay-ups.”

“I went to the Elite 11 last year where all of the top college quarterbacks came in as counselors - and they were all there, I’m talking about Tua (Tagovailoa) from Alabama, Jarrett Stidham was there, Drew Lock, Will Grier - all those guys. And when you watched them all just throw in shorts, I left there saying that Jarrett Stidham throws it better than all those guys. That’s what type of arm talent he has.”

Jim Nagy: "Jarrett's got starter ability. No doubt in my mind. If they develop him right. Again, quarterback play is all about opportunity and situation. I think he's in a good spot to really maximize that. I think Jarrett could definitely be a starter in the NFL."

"It's just natural. He's just a natural thrower. Some of these guys have to get drilled and go to camps. I've made the comment a couple of times over the years down here in Alabama about him, 'Jarrett came out of the womb throwing a football.' It's so natural to him. It doesn't matter if his feet aren't right, if he's off-balance, if he's gotta adjust his arm angle. The ball just comes off his hand so clean. That's why it's so important."

"You see him make a lot of throws under duress. You see him make a lot of tight-window throws. There were a couple of quarterbacks in this draft that really sat back in a clean pocket and played pitch-and-catch all the time. That's not the NFL. When I evaluate quarterbacks I want to see people in their face, throwing into tight windows."

"I go back to seeing Jarrett play Week 1 against Washington this year and you can go back to my Twitter feed from that day back in September. Some of his red-zone throws in that game were incredible. If you want to see a guy's true accuracy. Go do a cut-up of all the red-zone stuff, his ball placement in the red zone. Not even on that day but over the course of the year, he's one of the best in the class and maybe the best in this year's class. He brings a lot to the table. He really does."

National Scout for an NFC team on Stidham's senior year: "That was a really dysfunctional offense this year. The offensive line was bad, the receivers couldn't get open and the coaching was a big problem, I thought. He didn't play well, but he didn't get much help either."​

Remember that prior to Stidham's senior season, he was viewed as a possible 1st round pick.

And when he got on the field in the pre-season last summer, he was at least as good as guys like Garoppolo and Brissett were in the pre-season of their rookie years.



In fact, I see a lot of similarities between that video and the way Garoppolo played in the regular season with the Patriots once he got his shot.

Stidham seems like a good kid who's working hard, getting better, and has some real talent. I don't think it's a huge stretch to think that the Patriots might have found someone with real ability who was in a bad situation at Auburn, and that there's a chance he could be at least a serviceable NFL quarterback.

I'm not suggesting that he's the next Tom Brady.

I do think there's a chance he might be the next Jimmy Garoppolo. And once upon a time, Bill Belichick was ready to turn the keys to the kingdom over to Jimmy G.


Were the Patriots quotes from last pre-season? I have a hard time imagining anyone being asked or talking about Stidham after the season started.

BTW, thanks for the effort putting that all together.
 
Bad senior year on a bad team. You mean like Dan Marino? The guy the Pates passed on because of that and picked Tony Eason instead?

The Pats weren't the only team to pass on Marino and take another QB. If my memory serves me there were rumors of Marino using wacky tobacky, rumors that may have been started by Don "Cheater" Shula.
 
The Pats weren't the only team to pass on Marino and take another QB. If my memory serves me there were rumors of Marino using wacky tobacky, rumors that may have been started by Don "Cheater" Shula.
Actually, the rumor was that he was a cokehead.
 
Thx.. 2" shorter than brady. Makes sense.

JG had balls batted down in sb... height is good.. eyesight plus release point since arm length follows height.

I'm not sure height is the factor in having passes batted down. Staring at the target and the OL not staying with their assignment could be more important.

Speaking of QB height, I remember way back in 2004 I saw a magazine with Brady and Donovan McNabb posing on the cover, Reader's Digest I think. Brady could have eaten nuts off the top of McNabb's head if they didn't roll off.
 
Were the Patriots quotes from last pre-season? I have a hard time imagining anyone being asked or talking about Stidham after the season started.
A lot of those quotes were actually from December. I know Belichick was asked specifically about Stidham at a press conference late in December.
 
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TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
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