Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Tunescribe]

My father was a RISP as were my cousins.Square jawed, to the letter cops. Two of them are retired on the West Coast..Sanibel. We talk all the time. They think this incident is curious to say the least. I lived there in Palm Beach County back in the late 70's and 80's. There's all kinds of "law" in effect there, mainly the "money talks, BS walks" kind. I have solid reasons to believe this incident is politically motivated on some level. You just don't see the cops arrest a billionaire down there unless there's another billionaire behind it. Kraft should use his vast resources to fight this case...in the process it'll draw out the real individual behind it.

I think it's plausible that political opportunism might be afoot here, Joe, but it seems pretty straightforward that Bob stupidly set the stage for it.

 

[Ring 6]

He will walk. Wait and see. If his guilt was an open and shut case.. he would have already taken the deal.

His priority is being able to deny any wrongdoing. Taking the deal precludes that. No way he takes the deal.

Nevertheless your comments about there needing to be audiotape are not correct.

 

[Ring 6]

there is a big difference between "caught" and "charged". Caught implies he's already guilty. Not even YOU know this to be true yet.

Are you seriously telling me you think he is innocent?

 

[Joker]

sure it does Tunes...this is something he's been doing for a LONG TIME. THAT is something that keeps getting glossed over. "He only went there twice!" the police made sure to stress. Bullcrap. Everytime he's been down there since Myra died he's been dippin' ****y somewhere.I'm surprised one of these muck raking tabloids haven't got a copy of his cell records and checked them for escorts and the like. One thing for damn sure, anyone who believes this was just a once or twice thing is beyond the valley of the Pollyannas

 

[Joker]

Are you seriously telling me you think he is innocent?

I'm not "telling" you anything. It's my opinion that this whole sordid mess is only half the story.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not "telling" you anything. It's my opinion that this whole sordid mess is only half the story.

What could the other half be that would tell you that he isn’t guilty of soliciting a prostitute when he is on film get a hand job and a blowjob in a brothel?

 

[Soliel]

This proposed "deal" is an indirect admission that the authorities:

Overstepped their authority
Manufactured a false narrative (human trafficking) to secure warrants
Trampled citizen rights by (1) illegal filming based on illegally constructed warrants , (2) forcing vehicles to pull over under a false traffic violation premise, (3) demanding identification of all vehicle inhabitants based on false traffic violation premise.

Why deal when you having a winning hand?

Jupiter PD is in face saving mode right now and attempting to secure a result it would never be able to secure in court.
I suspect the biggest conversation within the Jupiter municipality is its liability exposure, not misdemeanor rub 'n tug convictions.

Kraft is in a position that holds tremendous leverage. Admitting anything beyond which bank account Jupiter liability insurers should deposit his settlement into is a non starter.
Why accept the label Rub 'nTug Beneficiary when you don't have to?
Bob didn't hire a fleet of assassin attorneys in order to achieve an opportunity for public admission.

I agree. The attorneys he has retained are sharks. There is no way he loses this at trial.

What I envision is the dumb axles in Florida drop all charges. The deal they offered shows that they know damn well they ain’t beating goldberger on this

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree. The attorneys he has retained are sharks. There is no way he loses this at trial.

What I envision is the dumb axles in Florida drop all charges. The deal they offered shows that they know damn well they ain’t beating goldberger on this

1. The deck is stacked in favor of the government for multiple reasons, and conviction rates reflect that. Good attorneys can help with that, but they aren't guaranteed to win.
2. Y'all are underestimating the prosecutors, many of you because of some idiotic perceptions you seem to have of Florida.
3. The offer is a pretty standard thing. It doesn't necessarily mean anything beyond trying to keep the courts moving instead of getting hung up on low level cases. It's how courts work.

 

[Jlaff]

In many courtrooms, if you can prove (1) a sex act took place and (2) money changed hands, then that’s proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Judges are not stupid. They are not going to buy the old “I paid for her time, the sex was free!” defense.

Deleted in hopes of future political career.

 

[Soliel]

1. The deck is stacked in favor of the government for multiple reasons, and conviction rates reflect that. Good attorneys can help with that, but they aren't guaranteed to win.
2. Y'all are underestimating the prosecutors, many of you because of some idiotic perceptions you seem to have of Florida.
3. The offer is a pretty standard thing. It doesn't necessarily mean anything beyond trying to keep the courts moving instead of getting hung up on low level cases. It's how courts work.

I admit that it’s possible to lose even with a great lawyer team. I remember this one time though. OJ was caught with blood everywhere, was painfully obvious he was guilty as hell. Barry Sheck and Shapiro and the other guy literally shredded that case.
Johnny Cochran. That was before the 9/11 laws though so yes, I could see it but it’s not going to happen.

 

[PatsDeb]

Could it be a badly reported/misunderstood by the media Alford plea? ("A plea under which a defendant may choose to plead guilty, not because of an admission to the crime, but because the prosecutor has sufficient evidence to place a charge and to obtain conviction in court.")

Could be. It’s called pleading “no lo contendre” or “nolo” in NH, but the judge still finds you guilty, so I don’t know what this “dropping the charges” is. If they drop the charges there is no punishment. Here they are giving you all the punishment as if you were found guilty. It could be some quirk under FL law.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

McCann's write-up on this:
Kraft’s next course of action after prosecutors offer plea deal

The type of arrangement offered to Kraft partly resembles an “Alford plea,” which stems from the U.S. Supreme Court case North Carolina v. Alford. An Alford plea involves a defendant maintaining his or her innocence. However, as part of a plea deal, the defendant acknowledges that he or she would have been found guilty in a trial.

The difference here is that should Kraft take the deferred prosecution deal, he would not enter into any plea. The charges would be dropped altogether. However, Kraft would have to admit that the case against him was sufficient for proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. With an eye towards a potential NFL punishment, Kraft might value not having to admit that he engaged in solicitation (though, conversely, he would have to admit that he would have been convicted of solicitation)."

also

Take a defense claiming that there was no solicitation. According to law enforcement’s depiction of the Jan. 19 video, Kraft is shown paying for a massage at the spa’s front desk and then, after a sexual act involving Kraft takes place in a private room, Kraft is shown paying a woman a $100 bill and another bill. This sequence makes it difficult to conclude that Kraft did not pay for the sexual act, either directly or as a tip. The description of the Jan. 20 video is even more illuminating. According to law enforcement, Kraft—who was obviously not dissuaded by his experience at the spa on Jan. 19—paid for a service at the front desk but he did not receive a massage. He instead received a sexual act. It logically follows, then, that he paid for a sexual act.

Also, even if Kraft could show that he did not “solicit” sex, that’s not the only vehicle under Florida statute 796.07 through which the prosecution can prevail. If Kraft merely “induced” or “enticed” a sexual act through payment, that too would count as solicitation for purposes of the law.

 

[Deus Irae]

I admit that it’s possible to lose even with a great lawyer team. I remember this one time though. OJ was caught with blood everywhere, was painfully obvious he was guilty as hell. Barry Sheck and Shapiro and the other guy literally shredded that case.
Johnny Cochran. That was before the 9/11 laws though so yes, I could see it but it’s not going to happen.

That case was lost by the prosecution for 3 reasons, and pretty much only for 3 reasons. None of them were really about great lawyering by the defense.

1. The jury didn't want to convict because he was black, and because he was O.J..
   
2. Darden was stupid enough to try the glove stunt
3. Furman had said some things in the past that opened the "racism!" door wide open.

 

[Soliel]

I’d answer them in this manner. No

You drop the charges and you go on television and admit to all and sundry that 1. You would have defenitely lost at trial and then been sued. 2. You broke every possible procedure and should yourself be jailed for abuse of power and manipulation of everything. 3. After that you commit hare Kare

 

[Soliel]

That case was lost by the prosecution for 3 reasons, and pretty much only for 3 reasons. None of them were really about great lawyering by the defense.

1. The jury didn't want to convict because he was black, and because he was O.J..
   
2. Darden was stupid enough to try the glove stunt
3. Furman had said some things in the past that opened the "racism!" door wide open.

This is true. They also were being threatened with mass rioting. What a mess huh?

 

[Deus Irae]

This is true. They also were being threatened with mass rioting. What a mess huh?

Absolutely. I was working (sort of) in the prosecutor's office in Miami at the time. The amount of second guessing about that case will probably never be surpassed.

 

[Soliel]

Absolutely. I was working (sort of) in the prosecutor's office in Miami at the time. The amount of second guessing about that case will probably never be surpassed.

I hope there is never another case with elements like that going on. That trial gave me serious doubts about equal protection under the law. I forgot about that dope of a cop that said all that racist crap. That was the ball game really but if not, the glove not fitting did.

 

[venecol]

I told you guys there will be a $hitstorm over this. Triumph is right again.

Advocates call on Goodell to ban Kraft if guilty

The National Center on Sexual Exploitation is an Anti-pornography group. These are some of their claimed victories:

• The hotel industry’s removal of on-demand pornography from the television offerings in guest rooms;
• Major changes to Google ads, GooglePlay, and YouTube;
• Resolutions declaring pornography a public health crisis passed in four states (with more to come);
• Disney’s removal of a sex trafficking scene in its Pirates of the Caribbean rides;
• Stopping a bill in New Hampshire that would have fully decriminalized prostitution;
• Ending the sale of pornography at U.S. Army and Air Force exchanges;
• Walmart’s removal of eroticized child nudity books from its online store;
• Marsh supermarkets removal of Cosmopolitan from checkout lanes in its more than 80 stores;
• Stopping mainstream hotels from hosting a sex industry expos;
• Working with major airlines to improve their policies prohibiting the viewing of pornography on planes.

Based on this the entire NFL should be dissolved or anyone else that watches porn. Lol

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The National Center on Sexual Exploitation is an Anti-pornography group. These are some of their claimed victories

Are they left-wing MacKinnon/Dworkin-style nutjobs?
Or are they right-wing Bill Dobson-style nutjobs?

 

[Deus Irae]

I hope there is never another case with elements like that going on. That trial gave me serious doubts about equal protection under the law. I forgot about that dope of a cop that said all that racist crap. That was the ball game really but if not, the glove not fitting did.

It was definitely a tense time for the country, no question.