Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[Ring 6]

Here's some data-based research.
https://eml.berkeley.edu/~saez/saez-UStopincomes-2015.pdf

Here's the chart that results:

You arent reading the chart correctly.
In the average income of the bottom 90% is 34000 that doesn’t mean 90% have incomes less than 34000

 

[Ring 6]

Here's some data-based research.
https://eml.berkeley.edu/~saez/saez-UStopincomes-2015.pdf

Here's the chart that results:

Where is that chart from? It isn’t in the link.

 

[captain stone]

We got Tom Brady lost for 4 games and 2 draft picks stolen away for nothing.
Very arguably those 2 draft picks could have been the difference in Sb 52 and we would have won 3 in a row and 4 of 5.

Yep, LB Myles Jack with our stolen 1st-rounder in 2016 and either DB Desmond King or TE George Kittle with our stolen 4th-rounder in 2017.

 

[maust]

Nope.
I put you on ignore because of the way you post.
You don’t have your facts right.
If I took a shot at you I guarantee it was in response to you doing so first because I never go personal until someone else does.

You should peruse that thread again

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Nice straw man. Never said Kraft's handling of Deflategate led to a championship. What I am saying is his handling of Deflategate didn't prevent one. Jerry Jones has actually prevented championships with his actions. I don't want Bob Kraft emulating Jerry Jones. The end.

You talk about fallacies and then continue with a giant one. Because Kraft should have handled the situation more like Jerry Jones did does not mean that he should be like Jerry Jones in other ways. That’s a very sneaky way to dismiss the reasonable views that many have presented.

 

[Antdawg]

We got Tom Brady lost for 4 games and 2 draft picks stolen away for nothing.
Very arguably those 2 draft picks could have been the difference in Sb 52 and we would have won 3 in a row and 4 of 5.

Oh, the irony. The McNally and Jastremski texts, coupled with the fact Tom destroyed his phone make TB12 look every bit as guilty as the videotape from the spa does Kraft.

In any event, there is ZERO Kraft could have done to stop the suspension and draft pick deductions. It went as far as it could. When the NFL is hellbent on nailing a certain figure (spending $2.5 million on the Wells report) and they uncover what appears to be very damning circumstantial evidence, you're never going to win that battle. (as was proven in court) Kraft made the wise business decision.

TB12 has forgiven him. Why can't you?

 

[Antdawg]

Kraft himself admitted he made a huge mistake. Brady was furious. Glad to hear you’re still defending this move. Fans like myself are taking this into “the stupid” for having a negative opinion about Kraft’s actions when Kraft acknowledges he screwed up badly? You may want to reconsider whose in “the stupid” here.

Can you post the quote which Kraft admits he made a mistake? Because there is literally nothing he could have done to stop the suspension.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Can you post the quote which Kraft admits he made a mistake? Because there is literally nothing he could have done to stop the suspension.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft: 'I was wrong to put my faith in the league'

Kraft also apologized to Brady and Patriots fans for initially accepting the league’s ruling, a decision he said “I now regret.”

 

[BTTA]

You arent reading the chart correctly.
In the average income of the bottom 90% is 34000 that doesn’t mean 90% have incomes less than 34000

You are right. I'm moving too fast.

The point I made in the OP still stands, regardless of how the chart is read. In fact, to focus on the chart just strengthens the point I made about how the focus on income is a distraction wrt power and money.

The chart is from a summary of the study done by an NGO that studies US economic trends. I don't have it handy right now.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Oh, the irony. The McNally and Jastremski texts, coupled with the fact Tom destroyed his phone make TB12 look every bit as guilty as the videotape from the spa does Kraft.

In any event, there is ZERO Kraft could have done to stop the suspension and draft pick deductions. It went as far as it could. When the NFL is hellbent on nailing a certain figure (spending $2.5 million on the Wells report) and they uncover what appears to be very damning circumstantial evidence, you're never going to win that battle. (as was proven in court) Kraft made the wise business decision.

TB12 has forgiven him. Why can't you?

Because he’s a coward. Because an innocent person was framed, evidence fabricated, millions spent on propaganda, the legacy of a great man (and the face of his entire business) tarnished, and out of principle he should have stood up to Goodell. He did less than the bare minimum. He didn’t even appeal, which should be a given that every owner would appeal any penalty to try to get it reduced. With the massive media coverage, he could have used the platform, and the appeal process, to take apart this ridiculous “conviction,” and even if he didn’t win, he could have done a lot for public opinion. He won’t be forgiven, ever, by many. That WAS his moment to reveal who he was, and he very much showed us.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Here's some data-based research.
https://eml.berkeley.edu/~saez/saez-UStopincomes-2015.pdf

Here's the chart that results:

I'll trust the US Census Bureau over your chart:

"Median household income in the United States in 2017 was $61,372, an increase in real terms of 1.8 percent from the 2016 median income of $60,309. This is the third consecutive annual increase in median household income."

Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the U.S.: 2017

I don't know in what mistaken way you're creating your chart, since your chart doesn't even match the article you post. For example, in Figure 2 of the article it says the 90th percentile household income is $124,800 (and not your alleged $312,536), the 95th percentile income is $180,500 and not your alleged $477,293, and the 99th percentile income is $443,000 (and not your alleged $1,363,977).

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Because he’s a coward. Because an innocent person was framed, evidence fabricated, millions spent on propaganda, the legacy of a great man (and the face of his entire business) tarnished, and out of principle he should have stood up to Goodell. He did less than the bare minimum. He didn’t even appeal, which should be a given that every owner would appeal any penalty to try to get it reduced. With the massive media coverage, he could have used the platform, and the appeal process, to take apart this ridiculous “conviction,” and even if he didn’t win, he could have done a lot for public opinion. He won’t be forgiven, ever, by many. That WAS his moment to reveal who he was, and he very much showed us.

And note that SD did appeal over Towelgate and got its penalty reduced. So don't anyone tell me Kraft couldn't have appealed. True, nothing would have changed in NE's case, but d%#*!@t you go out there and force the NFL to dot every "i" and cross every "t". And plenty of non-NEers did and still do say "Kraft knew full well Brady was cheating, that's why he didn't even bother to appeal."

 

[Ring 6]

Oh, the irony. The McNally and Jastremski texts, coupled with the fact Tom destroyed his phone make TB12 look every bit as guilty as the videotape from the spa does Kraft.

No it doesn’t at all.
Circumstantial evidence that is tangential to the supposed crime is not anywhere near the same as video evidence of the commission of the crime.
If they found text from some guy saying kraft likes to bang hos and kraft sold the car he owned when that text was sent you would have “every bit” the same thing.

In any event, there is ZERO Kraft could have done to stop the suspension and draft pick deductions. It went as far as it could.

That is an opinion and quite frankly an uninformed one because he literally did nothing. How can “I accept the penalties” be as far as he could go. It’s literally the opposite.

When the NFL is hellbent on nailing a certain figure (spending $2.5 million on the Wells report) and they uncover what appears to be very damning circumstantial evidence, you're never going to win that battle. (as was proven in court) Kraft made the wise business decision.

Again uninformed. The court case had nothing to do with guilt. It had to do with goodells right to be the only judge of guilt under the cba.
Kraft is not obligated under the cba. Kraft has means of appeal. He chose to not exercise them and clearly stated that what his best for the patriots is not as important to him as what is best for the 32 owners.

TB12 has forgiven him. Why can't you?

I’m not employed by him so I have a choice that doesn’t negatively affect me to exercise.

 

[Ring 6]

And note that SD did appeal over Towelgate and got its penalty reduced. So don't anyone tell me Kraft couldn't have appealed. True, nothing would have changed in NE's case, but d%#*!@t you go out there and force the NFL to dot every "i" and cross every "t". And plenty of non-NEers did and still do say "Kraft knew full well Brady was cheating, that's why he didn't even bother to appeal."

Hammer meets nail on head.

 

[Ring 6]

I'll trust the US Census Bureau over your chart:

"Median household income in the United States in 2017 was $61,372, an increase in real terms of 1.8 percent from the 2016 median income of $60,309. This is the third consecutive annual increase in median household income."

Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the U.S.: 2017

I don't know in what mistaken way you're creating your chart, since your chart doesn't even match the article you post. For example, in Figure 2 of the article it says the 90th percentile household income is $124,800 (and not your alleged $312,536), the 95th percentile income is $180,500 and not your alleged $477,293, and the 99th percentile income is $443,000 (and not your alleged $1,363,977).

It is possible the chart relates to individual income rather than household but we have no idea where the chart is from so can only guess.

 

[Tony2046]

Oh, the irony. The McNally and Jastremski texts, coupled with the fact Tom destroyed his phone make TB12 look every bit as guilty as the videotape from the spa does Kraft.

In any event, there is ZERO Kraft could have done to stop the suspension and draft pick deductions. It went as far as it could. When the NFL is hellbent on nailing a certain figure (spending $2.5 million on the Wells report) and they uncover what appears to be very damning circumstantial evidence, you're never going to win that battle. (as was proven in court) Kraft made the wise business decision.

TB12 has forgiven him. Why can't you?

You are clearly uninformed regarding the text messages, red herring phone smashings, Kraft's capitulation and the entirety of deflategate .

It was closer to 22 million spent on deflategate by the way.

Goodell treated Kraft like a trafficked sex slave, turned Bob around and shoved deflategate right up his ass. What did Bob do? Gave him a couple of hugs.

Let's call it the plug n hug incident. At least you could defend Kraft for being a victim in that scenario.

I'm glad he's the owner of the team, he's done a lot of great things but he capitulated like a coward during deflategate and spygate.

"End of story. "

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

And note that SD did appeal over Towelgate and got its penalty reduced. So don't anyone tell me Kraft couldn't have appealed. True, nothing would have changed in NE's case, but d%#*!@t you go out there and force the NFL to dot every "i" and cross every "t". And plenty of non-NEers did and still do say "Kraft knew full well Brady was cheating, that's why he didn't even bother to appeal."

Brady ultimately "lost" in the second circuit, but for everyone paying attention to what the ruling actually was (that the arbitrator has essentially absolute power), he won the public opinion case, as well as with virtually every reporter who was there. The NFL was humiliated and forced to acknowledge they didn't have any direct evidence that he did anything wrong. Initially Judge Berman ripped the NFL a new one. Brady took the case all the way to requesting an en banc trial and finally bowed out just short of appealing to the SCOTUS. There was virtually zero chance that SCOTUS would review the case, and at that point, they may have stayed the suspension and then it could have been enacted during the postseason.

Kraft couldn't even appeal. Such a disappointment.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because he’s a coward. Because an innocent person was framed, evidence fabricated, millions spent on propaganda, the legacy of a great man (and the face of his entire business) tarnished, and out of principle he should have stood up to Goodell. He did less than the bare minimum. He didn’t even appeal, which should be a given that every owner would appeal any penalty to try to get it reduced. With the massive media coverage, he could have used the platform, and the appeal process, to take apart this ridiculous “conviction,” and even if he didn’t win, he could have done a lot for public opinion. He won’t be forgiven, ever, by many. That WAS his moment to reveal who he was, and he very much showed us.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It seems there's a misunderstanding about why Kraft chickened out in Deflategate. Perhaps his own spin made it seem that he thought he was helping Brady by not appealing, with some twisted belief that Goodell would soften his stance on Brady's suspension (wtf???) It made no sense at the time and never will. There was no agreement between the two, and that was reported immediately after Kraft capitulated. Everyone was in disbelief and thought there must be some kind of handshake agreement where Goodell was going to take Brady out of the picture and exonerate him, but it never came.

On another note, Brady was offered a vastly reduced penalty but refused to throw Jastremski and McNally under the bus for something they never did. That's a man of principle right there. Kraft isn't 1/100th the man Brady is.

The truth is really simple. Deflategate became an "us versus them" and Kraft realized that in taking Brady's side, he was digging his heels in past the picket line, and he found himself crossing over the to the player's union, since ultimately that's where he saw this headed. It wasn't actually headed there and he had other options, but he couldn't handle the perception from other owners that he wasn't a good ole' boy any more. He gladly threw Brady under the bus, made a few planned statement to try to save face, and then everything cooled off because the team remained successful on the field.

Robert Kraft says Patriots won't appeal Deflategate punishment

Kraft’s conciliatory tone toward the league office has decidedly not been adopted by either Brady or the NFLPA, which will press on with its appeal of his four-game ban, which may not be four games for long. Suspicion hung thick in the air of the chandeliered, marble-lined Ritz lobby that this whole business had somehow been choreographed. Goodell and Kraft having reportedly hugged it out, conditions were ripe, according to the conspiracy-minded, for a backroom quid pro quo. In exchange for Kraft saying “Uncle,” the league finds it within its heart to reduce Brady’s suspension to, say, two games. (Brady’s demeanor during the appeal process—will he be defiant, or more even-keeled?—could also influence the arbitrator’s decision).

One highly-placed source told SI’s Greg Bedard that no deal was cut. For now, Kraft gets the benefit of the doubt. He’s earned it. He spoke with clear emotion on Tuesday morning, his eyes seeming to mist when he described “the heart and soul of the strength of the NFL” being “a partnership of 32 teams.” He voiced his conviction that “the agenda of one team” should never outweigh “the collective good of the full 32.”

 

[Joker]

Oh, the irony. The McNally and Jastremski texts, coupled with the fact Tom destroyed his phone make TB12 look every bit as guilty as the videotape from the spa does Kraft.

Look...nothing personal but....your post is 100% bullshyt. There was one text message made in May, nine months PRIOR to the AFC playoff game...NINE MONTHS BEFORE..in which the word "deflator" was used...the context of which has NEVER been proven one way or the other. The "Brady destroyed his phone!" red herring has been demonstrably proven to be what it is...MEANINGLESS B.S. You read to much NY centric jerkoff "journalism" like 99% of the re3st of this knee jerk country we live in.
"The Award also makes much of Brady’s purported non-cooperation, (including a brand new, hyperbolic and baseless accusation that Brady “destroyed’’ his cell phone after being advised by his agents-lawyers not to tum over private communications to the NFL’s outside law firm). This issue is a complete red herring because the NFL already had all of the relevant text communications by Brady from other Patriots personnel-a fact established by Brady’s telephone records, which were produced at the hearing, and which showed the time and date of every text and phone call to or from Brady and Patriots personnel (or anyone else).

Brady's own words on this issue...

"I also disagree with yesterdays narrative surrounding my cellphone. I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6 AFTER my attorneys made it clear to the NFL that my actual phone device would not be subjected to investigation under ANY circumstances. As a member of a union, I was under no obligation to set a new precedent going forward, nor was I made aware at any time during Mr. Wells investigation, that failing to subject my cell phone to investigation would result in ANY discipline."

Brady lawsuit: Cell phone is ‘a red herring’ | Boston.com

If you really are a Patriots fan, please...do not post fallacious crap like this again.