Kraft Orchids Case - Prosecuters Want a Tug Rule?

[NormZauchin]

I'm not sure of how great a proxy it is, but the War on Drugs desires to, but hasn't, worked that way.

There's the somewhat famous quote from the Documentary The House I Live In where a Federal Judge (who ultimately led the charge to overturn the 100:1 Cocaine rule), when asked about how many people he has sent to jail for drugs, says basically "I have sent over 2800 people to jail for drugs and only 3 were Kingpins"

Seems the people at the business end of the transaction get popped regularly even without "getting the masterminds"

I worked in the federal court system before retiring and I can say from personal experience that the war on drugs did not have many supporters among federal judges. It was, as you say, a policy which tied up their time and federal court dockets with the trial and sentencing of large numbers of minor criminals.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Deleted

 

[patsfan13]

I believe they're known as the internet libertarian's Huffington Post.

Reason Mag has been around for 50 years.

 

[Drewski]

Back to Kraft for a moment he was followed by a detective after his first session who had a cop pull his car over to get his ID. How stupid/arrogant was he to go back the next day. Also he is on tape (Audio?) giving the women $$after his session after paying for the session at the front desk. Ironically when the Me Too thing happened, he donated $1.6M to a group to help victims of trafficking. You can't make this crap up.

I had the same reaction when that detail was released.

If I got stopped leaving a place post handy and got ID'd (in what presumably may have seemed like a random stop) I know sure as **** I'm going to hang tight on returning there for a bit.

 

[Antdawg]

I'm not sure of how great a proxy it is, but the War on Drugs desires to, but hasn't, worked that way.

There's the somewhat famous quote from the Documentary The House I Live In where a Federal Judge (who ultimately led the charge to overturn the 100:1 Cocaine rule), when asked about how many people he has sent to jail for drugs, says basically "I have sent over 2800 people to jail for drugs and only 3 were Kingpins"

Seems the people at the business end of the transaction get popped regularly even without "getting the masterminds"

Understood, but the narrative on this Kraft story from the very beginning was that it was a sting on an extensive human trafficking organization and yet, there are no "kingpins" to speak of and really no evidence to speak of that suggests this was some sort of trafficking enterprise. It is really beginning to seem as though they used the human trafficking angle as cover for what amounts to nothing more than embarrassing a bunch of johns. I suppose I could be proven wrong with time, but that was clearly the narrative from the start on all this. Not just a media narrative, it was the narrative from LE in Palm Beach.

 

[patsfan13]

I assume the women will be blurred out? Embarrassing them even further would be really disgusting, hell I think a blurred out video release is still pretty disturbing.

So wil Kraft's private parts. But the video will get out.

 

[Steve102]

I had the same reaction when that detail was released.

If I got stopped leaving a place post handy and got ID'd (in what presumably may have seemed like a random stop) I know sure has **** I'm going to hang tight on returning there for a bit.

Ya, my exact thought, with one caveat: I'm calling my lawyer the minute my driver pulls the Bentley away from the "traffic stop." I am sure a man of Kraft's means has a guy like Saul Goodman on his cell phone. Probably a team of Sauls.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I'm still wondering if the supposedly "bigger name(s)" involved will ever be given. It is irritating that if this is true, only Kraft's seems to have been mentioned.

The Jupiter police have been clear that there are no bigger names of Johns to come out in this particular case, just the 25 already named.

But... this bust in Jupiter was coordinated with many others further up the coast, and NONE of the names from busts at the other sites have come out yet.

So there may be bigger names from these other locations.

Has Schefter retracted or given further comment on his claim of bigger names to come? ?

It seems like a rare swing and miss for Schefter, though par for the course for ESPN overall.

 

[Tb12goesinya]

Just because a place advertises in the Yellow Pages (do they even make the Yellow pages anymore?) doesn't mean it is a legit establishment. I'd bet Orchids of Asia was in the Yellow Pages but they weren't legit, now were they?

Escort services are legal and commonly found in the yellow pages. I know it's hard for some people to understand this, but anything physical that happens between 2 consenting adults is legal, as long as payment wasn't directly tied to a sex act.

The loophole of ambiguity is likely established so escorts and johns can't go around willy nilly talking about money for sex, then you can advertise deals on flyers billboards etc. and it becomes very lewd and thus is illegal.

 

[IcyPatriot]

 

[patsfan13]

Understood, but the narrative on this Kraft story from the very beginning was that it was a sting on an extensive human trafficking organization and yet, there are no "kingpins" to speak of and really no evidence to speak of that suggests this was some sort of trafficking enterprise. It is really beginning to seem as though they used the human trafficking angle as cover for what amounts to nothing more than embarrassing a bunch of johns. I suppose I could be proven wrong with time, but that was clearly the narrative from the start on all this. Not just a media narrative, it was the narrative from LE in Palm Beach.

INTERNATIONAL human trafficking ring (likely Interstate also) is a FEDERAL mater ie ICE and DHS, not the Jupiter PD.

Which part of this confuses you?

 

[Drewski]

Understood, but the narrative on this Kraft story from the very beginning was that it was a sting on an extensive human trafficking organization and yet, there are no "kingpins" to speak of and really no evidence to speak of that suggests this was some sort of trafficking enterprise. It is really beginning to seem as though they used the human trafficking angle as cover for what amounts to nothing more than embarrassing a bunch of johns. I suppose I could be proven wrong with time, but that was clearly the narrative from the start on all this. Not just a media narrative, it was the narrative from LE in Palm Beach.

I am not disagreeing with your take. There does seem to be something strange going on here given the "hawt take/headline grabbing" nature of the original story.

I can understand it taking longer to get to the broader conspiracy, especially, as presumably there are Federal and other State agencies that would be involved.

 

[Antdawg]

INTERNATIONAL human trafficking ring (likely Interstate also) is a FEDERAL mater ie ICE and DHS, not the Jupiter PD.

Which part of this confuses you?

Your entire post, because I have no clue what point you're trying to make. Are you saying it was proper for LE to make this big thing about a sting on a human trafficking ring when they can't really do anything about it? Have you seen any evidence which suggests local LE is referring this to the Feds? Further, what sense would it make to make this public and then go to the Feds? It gives the perps a head start to flee, obstruct and dispose of evidence. So, your entire post confuses me, because I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Enlighten me.

 

[Antdawg]

I am not disagreeing with your take. There does seem to be something strange going on here given the "hawt take/headline grabbing" nature of the original story.

Yeah, in my opinion, original story is falling apart, because you'd essentially be making a federal investigation known publicly before the federal investigation could even begin, which would be very dumb.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not implying anything, and I'm not talking about the specifics of this particular case. I'm saying that what police claim, what gets charged, and what gets argued by proscutors in court is not always 100% identical or 100% accurate, so PatsFan2 doesn't know what the hell he's talking about when he says that Kraft doesn't have a prayer, because he hasn't seen the evidence.

Patriots Owner Robert Kraft's Arrest Is Being Billed as a Human Trafficking Bust, but It Looks More Like Ordinary Prostitution
'No Allegations of Human Trafficking' and 'Women Could've Walked Out' In Florida Massage-Parlor Prostitution Stings



Triump's trolling hardest hit

 

[Star56]

You miss the point Entirely. This isn’t about Kraft, or the other high profile clients.

The investigation is Primarly about Human Trafficking and is being run by the Feds, specifically DHS and ICE.

They are looking at a criminal enterprise, The allegation is that women were brought to this country against their will and forced to provide sex for the benefit of their enslavers.

Are the women here legally?
If legal, were their passports seized?
If legal how were the passports obtained?
Were they gotten by the criminal org running these parlors?
How many parlors, multistate?
How many women nationally are being victimized by this ring?
Were the families of these women threatened?
Were the women physically abused in addition to being forced to provide
sex ?

These are the real issues. Kraft and the other rich billionaires are more a sideshow for the local cops and media. It serves a useful purpose to highlight the issue of sex trafficking, to bed for Kraft is more of a celebrity figure than the Citibank guy Hedge Fund CEO who were busted.

Back to Kraft for a moment he was followed by a detective after his first session who had a cop pull his car over to get his ID. How stupid/arrogant was he to go back the next day. Also he is on tape (Audio?) giving the women $$after his session after paying for the session at the front desk. Ironically when the Me Too thing happened, he donated $1.6M to a group to help victims of trafficking. You can't make this crap up.

Two of Kraft's ladies had licenses and lived permanently in the USA.

The trafficking thing is media on fire BS.

 

[Antdawg]

Two of Kraft's ladies had licenses and lived permanently in the USA.

The trafficking thing is media on fire BS.

At the very least, the more that comes out and as the days go by, this is looking better for Kraft. And just think, a couple days ago there were actually people here claiming they could read BK's mind and that he would have to have known it was a human trafficking ring, lol.

 

[Ring 6]

Escort services are legal and commonly found in the yellow pages. I know it's hard for some people to understand this, but anything physical that happens between 2 consenting adults is legal, as long as payment wasn't directly tied to a sex act.

The loophole of ambiguity is likely established so escorts and johns can't go around willy nilly talking about money for sex, then you can advertise deals on flyers billboards etc. and it becomes very lewd and thus is illegal.

There is only ambiguity in your mind.
You keep choosing to ignore when this is explained to you.
Paying someone to escort is legal.
Paying for sex is not.

Somehow you think the yellow pages are the gold standard of legality. You seem to not realize they are advertising their legal services but then performing illegal services.

Again, If an in home nurse advertises her nursing services that doesn’t make it legal for her to beat up, steal from, or euthanize the client.

 

[XLIX]

Escort services are legal and commonly found in the yellow pages. I know it's hard for some people to understand this, but anything physical that happens between 2 consenting adults is legal, as long as payment wasn't directly tied to a sex act.

And apparently it is very hard for some people to understand that if you hire an escort and have sex with that escort, no one is going to be stupid enough to believe that she just liked you so darn much and gave it up for free. You're not Richard Gere.

And that even applies to the escort services advertising in the yellow pages.

 

[Tb12goesinya]

I get that point entirely. Loud and clear. No more work visas for 'massueces'. Must be a citizen to work in a massage parlor. Routine inspections with human trafficking hotlines posted in facilities. And most importantly, massage parlors must undergo vetting by the state when opening and when hiring any new employee.

You miss the point Entirely. This isn’t about Kraft, or the other high profile clients.

The investigation is Primarly about Human Trafficking and is being run by the Feds, specifically DHS and ICE.

They are looking at a criminal enterprise, The allegation is that women were brought to this country against their will and forced to provide sex for the benefit of their enslavers.

Are the women here legally?
If legal, were their passports seized?
If legal how were the passports obtained?
Were they gotten by the criminal org running these parlors?
How many parlors, multistate?
How many women nationally are being victimized by this ring?
Were the families of these women threatened?
Were the women physically abused in addition to being forced to provide
sex ?

These are the real issues. Kraft and the other rich billionaires are more a sideshow for the local cops and media. It serves a useful purpose to highlight the issue of sex trafficking, to bed for Kraft is more of a celebrity figure than the Citibank guy Hedge Fund CEO who were busted.

Back to Kraft for a moment he was followed by a detective after his first session who had a cop pull his car over to get his ID. How stupid/arrogant was he to go back the next day. Also he is on tape (Audio?) giving the women $$after his session after paying for the session at the front desk. Ironically when the Me Too thing happened, he donated $1.6M to a group to help victims of trafficking. You can't make this crap up.