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Curran: Bills coming due for Patriots dynasty after this season

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So tell us what's so wrong with Curran's piece.

The basic premise that we're currently in the waning years of "Dynasty 2.0", for one. The whole premise of this article is that there was a v1 of the Dynasty that ran from 2001-2008, and then a second version with a lifespan of, apparently, 2009-2018. There are a bunch of core problems with this assertion, and the easiest way to sum them up is to point you to the 2014 Patriots roster. Of the 22 players who started Super Bowl 49, only 7 of them were still on the team by the start of the 2016 season. How on ****ing earth is that not a roster retooling, or a Dynasty v3, or whatever dumb pet term Curran wants to call it? Of the guys that Curran describes as being the core talent infusions of "v2.0", most of them weren't even on the team when they won the Super Bowl in 2016.

This idea that the bill has 'come due' for 2010-2014 is ludicrous, because that bill came due years ago and we already paid it. That's exactly what the last 4 offseasons have been about: paying the bill and ensuring it doesn't get ahead of us. The Pats have paying down this bill since the day they let Revis walk, then traded Chandler Jones. Every veteran they've traded or let walk since 2014--Revis, Jones, Collins, Butler, Cooks, Wilfork, Vereen, Lewis, Solder, Amendola, Ryan, Hicks, Browner--has been about paying that bill early rather than paying it late, so that in 2018 and beyond they'll still be in a position to contend and restock assets.

Anyone who's been watching the NFL for more than a couple years has seen a lot of teams go through exactly the kind of "the bill came due" period that Curran is describing. It's the inevitable end result of paying to keep a core together past its late 20s and into its 30s. And Belichick has very clearly not elected to do that. Whatever else you may choose to criticize about the guy, no one's ever accused him of holding onto guys for too long and waiting for the bill to come due. The entire premise of the article betrays a basic ignorance of how Belichick manages his roster, or alternately a disingenuous attempt to invent a narrative out of thin air. If you can even reasonably say that Patriots Dynasty v2.0 ever existed, it began and ended somewhere between 2005 and 2008. We're now on Patriots Dynasty v5 or v6 or whatever.

And again, this isn't coming from a homer perspective at all. I think there's a very critical article waiting to be written that draws a straight line from the last 3 draft classes to the depth issues they're currently having that are likely to only get worse going forward unless they knock a couple draft classes out of the park. But that's a separate, if somewhat related, issue, and one that Curran didn't mention at all.
 
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Really? You think he's missed on the draft lately.. Please cite your examples.

I don't think there is any doubt that subpar drafting is the biggest issue with the current roster. While it's too early to judge last year's draft, which doesn't look great so far, they have missed on too many picks since 2014, including:

2017/2nd Derek Rivers
2017/3rd Antionio Garcia
2016/2nd Cyrus Jones
2016/3rd Vincent Valentine
2016/3rs Jacoby Brissett
2015/1st Malcolm Brown
2015/2nd Jordan F'n Richards
2015/3rd Geneo Grissom

Basically, in those three drafts they got three starting caliber NFL players, Flowers, Mason & Wise. They are going to have to do better than that if they want to continue to contend for Championships.

A similar drought from 2005 - 2008 caused the pause that Current refers to between the two dynasties & they lost a ton of player personnel types (Robinson, Quinn, etc) over the past few years. Hopefully, they can stabilize their player personnel department and get back on track.
 
I don't have to defend my statement because the history of the league is clear. You're only arguing this because this is the internet and if someone says the sky is purple they'll defend it to their dying death for some dumb reason.

If turning a team around was easy teams would do it all the time and they'd not bother with holding onto the coaches who can sustain excellence because why bother with that hefty price tag.

Instead what you see is a league full of a few teams with superior front offices who have remained competitive while there's a constant churn of also-rans and teams like the Jets, Bills, Raiders, Lions, Browns, Cardinals, Bears, Vikings et al who save for some outliers remain mired in mediocrity or abject misery year after year.

There's nothing easy about turning around a losing team and by saying it is you're undermining all the work (and some luck) a guy like Belichick had to do to make it happen.


you're wrong.......teams with consistent front offices certainly turn around quickly......your claim that I am selling BB short is not only stupid, but actually, you're the one who is selling him short......the steelers have 4 losing seasons in 30 years going through 6 starting QB's but only 3 head coaches. the packers have 2 losing seasons in the last 26, same with the dolphins with shula, the niners from walsh to seifert to mooch, .....Remaking a roster over the course of 1-2 years to consistently field a playoff competitive team is only a mystery to morons and jackasses.
 
While I certainly understand the importance of the draft I feel like a lot of people are overvaluing it relative to all other avenues of acquiring talent. FA, trades, UDFAs.. all things that this team has been using pretty well in the past decade.

I am not saying I am expecting a lot but lets see what impact (if any) Melifonwu will have down the line. He might very well end up being someone like Branch who was on the streets and then becomes a key piece.

Similarly, we are all greedy and dont have enough patience but lets see where Gordon is after a full offseason with Brady.
I agree the draft can at times be overrated (especially if the pool sucks to begin with) but as others have said its a good way to land top talent at reasonable dollars for a few years.
 
The basic premise that we're currently in the waning years of "Dynasty 2.0", for one. The whole premise of this article is that there was a v1 of the Dynasty that ran from 2001-2008, and then a second version with a lifespan of, apparently, 2009-2018. There are a bunch of core problems with this assertion, and the easiest way to sum them up is to point you to the 2014 Patriots roster. Of the 22 players who started Super Bowl 49, only 7 of them were still on the team by the start of the 2016 season. How on ****ing earth is that not a roster retooling, or a Dynasty v3, or whatever dumb pet term Curran wants to call it? Of the guys that Curran describes as being the core talent infusions of "v2.0", most of them weren't even on the team when they won the Super Bowl in 2016.

This idea that the bill has 'come due' for 2010-2014 is ludicrous, because that bill came due years ago and we already paid it. That's exactly what the last 4 offseasons have been about: paying the bill and ensuring it doesn't get ahead of us. The Pats have paying down this bill since the day they let Revis walk, then traded Chandler Jones. Every veteran they've traded or let walk since 2014--Revis, Jones, Collins, Butler, Cooks, Wilfork, Vereen, Lewis, Solder, Amendola, Ryan, Hicks, Browner--has been about paying that bill early rather than paying it late, so that in 2018 and beyond they'll still be in a position to contend and restock assets.

Anyone who's been watching the NFL for more than a couple years has seen a lot of teams go through exactly the kind of "the bill came due" period that Curran is describing. It's the inevitable end result of paying to keep a core together past its late 20s and into its 30s. And Belichick has very clearly not elected to do that. Whatever else you may choose to criticize about the guy, no one's ever accused him of holding onto guys for too long and waiting for the bill to come due. The entire premise of the article betrays a basic ignorance of how Belichick manages his roster, or alternately a disingenuous attempt to invent a narrative out of thin air. If you can even reasonably say that Patriots Dynasty v2.0 ever existed, it began and ended somewhere between 2005 and 2008. We're now on Patriots Dynasty v5 or v6 or whatever.

And again, this isn't coming from a homer perspective at all. I think there's a very critical article waiting to be written that draws a straight line from the last 3 draft classes to the depth issues they're currently having that are likely to only get worse going forward unless they knock a couple draft classes out of the park. But that's a separate, if somewhat related, issue, and one that Curran didn't mention at all.
I'm glad someone else besides me see this the same way.

Today's NFL isn't how Chuck Noll built the Steelers. A couple of drafts and you are set for a decade.

Today's average NFL has 20-30% turnover every year.
 
I don't think there is any doubt that subpar drafting is the biggest issue with the current roster. While it's too early to judge last year's draft, which doesn't look great so far, they have missed on too many picks since 2014, including:

2017/2nd Derek Rivers
2017/3rd Antionio Garcia
2016/2nd Cyrus Jones
2016/3rd Vincent Valentine
2016/3rs Jacoby Brissett
2015/1st Malcolm Brown
2015/2nd Jordan F'n Richards
2015/3rd Geneo Grissom

Basically, in those three drafts they got three starting caliber NFL players, Flowers, Mason & Wise. They are going to have to do better than that if they want to continue to contend for Championships.

A similar drought from 2005 - 2008 caused the pause that Current refers to between the two dynasties & they lost a ton of player personnel types (Robinson, Quinn, etc) over the past few years. Hopefully, they can stabilize their player personnel department and get back on track.

Brown was not a miss. He was basically a high second rounder who has started 45 of 54 games. You would take that all day for late 1st rounder. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he sucks.
 
Are you are implying Bill is not working as hard or no longer on top of his game? I.E hes gone soft?

No, but I think there might be a little bit of old curmudgeon there that doesn't want to deal with selfish young guys. Let me be clear, I think he's earned that right. That doesn't make Bill the GM's job any easier, knowing that Bill the Coach might not want Player X for whatever reason.

Really? You think he's missed on the draft lately.. Please cite your examples.

How far back do you want me to go?

Glass I Dowling, Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce, Dominque Easley, Jordan Richards, Antonio Garcia... And as @maineman209 has pointed out, we have zero idea if guys like Duke Dawson and Isaiah Wynn can play.
 
I like Curran and I think many of the points raised in the article are valid....

But his view of the Cooks trade is puzzling. In what world is acquiring an early 20's first round pick for an expensive, talented-but-not-a-great-fit WR with one year remaining on his contract a bad trade? Why would Wynn's subsequent injury factor into this evaluation?

Really strange train of thought there.
 
I like Curran and I think many of the points raised in the article are valid....

But his view of the Cooks trade is puzzling. In what world is acquiring an early 20's first round pick for an expensive, talented-but-not-a-great-fit WR with one year remaining on his contract a bad trade? Why would Wynn's subsequent injury factor into this evaluation?

Really strange train of thought there.
He has been recently harping a lot on the fact that the cooks trade in isolation was good but was done because they didnt get enough out of the jimmy G trade and they did nothing to replace cooks after.
 
Players left from:

2014 draft - James White
2015 draft - Malcom Brown, Trey Flowers, Shaq Mason, Joe Cardona
2016 draft - Joe Thuney, Elandon Roberts, Ted Karras
2017 draft - Derek Rivers, Deatrich Wise
 
No, but I think there might be a little bit of old curmudgeon there that doesn't want to deal with selfish young guys. Let me be clear, I think he's earned that right. That doesn't make Bill the GM's job any easier, knowing that Bill the Coach might not want Player X for whatever reason.

Hold on....Bill not wanting selfish, young guys on the team is nothing new.

If you go back and read what Urban Meyer said along with the "only coach players he likes" statement, he hasn't changed one bit.
 
I like Curran and I think many of the points raised in the article are valid....

But his view of the Cooks trade is puzzling. In what world is acquiring an early 20's first round pick for an expensive, talented-but-not-a-great-fit WR with one year remaining on his contract a bad trade? Why would Wynn's subsequent injury factor into this evaluation?

Really strange train of thought there.
He was all over the freaking map.
 
I don't think there is any doubt that subpar drafting is the biggest issue with the current roster. While it's too early to judge last year's draft, which doesn't look great so far, they have missed on too many picks since 2014, including:

2017/2nd Derek Rivers
2017/3rd Antionio Garcia
2016/2nd Cyrus Jones
2016/3rd Vincent Valentine
2016/3rs Jacoby Brissett
2015/1st Malcolm Brown
2015/2nd Jordan F'n Richards
2015/3rd Geneo Grissom

Basically, in those three drafts they got three starting caliber NFL players, Flowers, Mason & Wise. They are going to have to do better than that if they want to continue to contend for Championships.

A similar drought from 2005 - 2008 caused the pause that Current refers to between the two dynasties & they lost a ton of player personnel types (Robinson, Quinn, etc) over the past few years. Hopefully, they can stabilize their player personnel department and get back on track.


the have not gotten enough production out of their draft for a long time.......the chiefs, saints, steelers have been pretty off the charts with their drafts lately
 
Version 3.0 might not be as high performance as versions 1.0 and 2.0 but it will be a robust operating system not prone to crashes.
 
Not really. Its flawed in it's thesis.

In his article, Curran has a belief that...
a) The Patriots chose 2009 to take a step back and blow up Dynasty 1.0 to rebuild for Dynasty 2.0 when in actuality they are iterative in how the add/drop talent
b) Bill is sitting back and doing absolutely nothing to build for Dynasty 3.0 right now.

You might be right on Point A. Regarding Point B, the team got older this year from 2017, so I'm not really sure how they are building D3 right now.

IMHO, Dynasty 3.0 boils down to how they replace Brady. I'm very confident BB can build the rest.
 
Why can't someone in the sports media just enjoy what the Pats are doing right now? Marvel at how they manage to stay on top despite how hard it is to do so in the NFL year after year? Look at last year's Super Bowl Champs. They can't even come up with a winning record this year. I'm so done with the media. I shouldn't HAVE clicked.
Questions:
How does one "marvel"?
Does BB ever do this "marvel' thing ?
I think the 2019 Eagles are "marveling"
Is it the media's job to make you feel ............marvelous?

Legalized MA weed can now help you achieve that state of mind. Curran is off the hook.
 
On a semi-related point, I remember really enjoying the 2008 season, and thinking at the time it might be Belichick's best. Which... it might!

I have been preaching for years how well he coached in 2008. That was a damn good team, even without Brady, by the end of the year.
 
Really? You think he's missed on the draft lately.. Please cite your examples.

I think it's pretty clear that the 2016 draft class was a swing and a miss. And while 2015, 2014 and 2017 had enough successes that it's hard to call any of those drafts a bust, the net body of work from 2014-2017 is not where it needs to be to sustain a championship-contending team.
 
You might be right on Point A. Regarding Point B, the team got older this year from 2017, so I'm not really sure how they are building D3 right now.

IMHO, Dynasty 3.0 boils down to how they replace Brady. I'm very confident BB can build the rest.

You only know if you have Dynasty 3.0 if you are in the middle of it.

This is my problem with Curran's premise. Bill has been iterating over the roster for 19 years. Along the way some moves have been big. Some small. Hes being dramatic.

For all we know Sony Michel will be a 1500yd rusher next year and Josh Gordon will have 11ooyds receiving. If they win the SB w/o Gronk and Jules and 85% of the roster different than 85% of 2016, is that v3.0?
 
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Really? You think he's missed on the draft lately.. Please cite your examples.
2016 and 2017 were horrible drafts. The only starter we have from those 2 drafts is Joe Thuney and he is an average player. 2018 cannot be graded yet.

When Bill hit home runs between 2009 - 2013 he set up Part 2 of the Dynasty.

2009 - Chung, Edelman
2010 - Gronk, McCourty, Hernandez
2011 - Solder, Cannon, Vereen, Ridley
2012 - C. Jones, Hightower, Ebner
2013 - Collins, Ryan, Harmon

Every year for 5 straight years he graded B+ or higher. 2014 - 2018 hasn’t been nearly as good.
 
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