What Do You Expect From Defensive Scheme?

[maineman209]

Last year's defense looked like they were playing on ice skates. Guys are running all over the place wide open. I go to the games, I see what is going on, stuff you cannot see on TV.

Dude, you really didn't need to be at the game to see that ish. I saw it just fine on my TV.

If you're trying to make a point about a "talent" difference between the 2016 and 2017 defenses, you might want to consider the difference in experience first. In terms of career snaps on defense the Pats lost about 80% between 2016 and 2017 in the front six. That's not hyperbole. I actually looked up all the snap counts and did the math.

HT returning from injury literally quadruples the experience level in the LB corps, even if Bentley pays a lot of snaps. With additions of Clayborn, and even Shelton, PLUS the experience that Wise and Butler gained last season (their rookie seasons), a good chunk of that 80% experience deficit has been erased.

You claim that this D "has no playmakers" even before anyone has seen what guys like Rivers might be able to do, or even what Flowers might be able to do with a full set of four rotational DEs again (and an actual NT in the middle of the line).

You're just jumping the gun on the season.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

A lot of it actually is the RPO.

The RPO is kind of an extreme version of play-action. It was developed specifically to exploit weak, poor-tackling run-defenses (and the Pats 2017 run-D was one of the weakest I've ever seen) and to stymie the pass rush by making the rushers hesitate and guess.

Very well-executed by Philly, and it worked like a charm for both KC and Philly. The Pats may have been "ready" for it, schematically, but they simply didn't have the players to put on the field who could stop it.

I'm guessing that a bunch of other teams - especially Pats opponents this season - try to copy it (and probably eff it up). Well, the Pats now do have the players. They also have Bielema (who's had to deal with it already for a few years) consulting for the defense, focusing on the DL. IOW, he's not on the staff just because he's BB's buddy.

Odds are we'll see some of it out of the Texans on Sunday.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the RPO had nothing to do with NE giving up 143 yards rushing to the Steelers or 113 rushing to the Dolphins (in December).

I agree the pats defense was not an average defense last year. Rather, it was an above average one. But I fail to see significant improvement in the D last year from the beginning to the end. A lot of it was obviously personnel. And I agree the Pats D will be a lot better this year, especially the run D.

 

[TommyD4207]

Like I said, I cant argue with someone who "is there and sees more than what is on TV" or tries to disproves facts with goal post moving, strawmen tactics.

It's up there with "I played in high school for 3 years"

 

[Doctor DDS]

League rules have made it extremely difficult to have a consistently good defense. Not just for a season but game to game. Giving up 300 yards passing is common place and the massive reduction in interceptions keeps defenses on the field longer. Add in more roughing/helmet to helmet and what not penalties and it is tough to get off the field. Outside of the Seahawks and the Broncos for a few years every other defense has theoretically "stunk" and had significant ups and downs.

Pundits were extolling the 2016 Giants defense until it got toasted by the Packers in the playoffs. Same with the Vikings last year until the Eagles kicked their butt. Even the Pats 2014 defense that was considered highly talented was hammer by the Ravens. Minimizing points is the best we can hope for and as long as it continues to compliment a top 5 offense the Pats should once again be competing for an AFC and Super Bowl championship.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I expect them to be better. With the additions and High returning, it's hard to imagine they'd be worse.

I hope Flores makes it easier for them so they aren't in reactionary mode but can make quicker decisions. I want to see them keep the ball in front of them and not in backpedaling or ice skating mode.

 

[luuked]

Are you trying to compare Nick Foles to the GOAT?

Foles played a great SB and is a deserved MVP in that game for the Eagles.

In that single game the gap between the two of them was substantially thinner than on any other day in their lifes.

 

[Nunchucks]

That's not a bad thing, since Chandler couldn't set the edge or drop into coverage to save his life.

He was okay at setting the edge. Dropping him into coverage...who the hell cares, he is a pass rusher.

 

[luuked]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the RPO had nothing to do with NE giving up 143 yards rushing to the Steelers or 113 rushing to the Dolphins (in December).

You are looking at it backwards.

It was not that RPOs exposed our run defense but our run defense was so bad throughout the year that the RPOs when executed well became an extremely bad matchup because of that run D to the point where you could not afford to lose many (if any) of the 50/50 plays.

 

[luuked]

He was okay at setting the edge. Dropping him into coverage...who the hell cares, he is a pass rusher.

The Patriots D scheme does. It is arguably more important than the pass rush aspect.

 

[Nunchucks]

The Patriots D scheme does. It is arguably more important than the pass rush aspect.

He was as good or better than Flowers or Wise

 

[Ring 6]

Flores has distinctly used a different approach than Patricia did. It is an illusion to think otherwise. You are clearly not paying attention.

They have not played a fame yet.

Backers playing closer to the line does not mean that they are ON the line- what I've noticed is that Flores isn't quite having them play the traditional depth of a backer. What exactly defines the distance a backer is positioned off the line is a matter of philosophy and every DC is different, and Flores is clearly taking a different approach to this than Patricia has.

This is Both nonsensical and inaccurate.
You say Patricia played a 5-1 which he did but but Flores plays a 4-2 but the linebackers are closer to the line. That’s literally impossible.
There has been no difference.

You are hell bent on proving that either I'm wrong or incompetent that you're just flat out ignoring the indications, the clues. You're also dismissing Hightower's remarks which is hysterical to me. The guy is the captain of the defense and he has been around for 6 years.

No I have no interest in “proving you wrong”. You are wrong there is no proof necessary. However I have no interest in discussing what you are wrong about with you because you have proven you are not well educated about football and disinterested in learning, being only interested in finding a way to argue something you don’t even understand is correct.
Case in pint you continue to use Hightower’s comments about play calling in OTAs as a public pronouncement of a new philosophy and act like using reason and understanding it’s a throwaway comment at a unimportant time, is calling Hightower a liar. Of course thiscytam has a long history of discussing strategy in interviews

I have no interest in you explaining your misunderstandings. I am simply responding to incorrect information that you post as if you are passing along insight and information so that readers will understand it’s a load of crap.

 

[Joker]

my girlfriend is extremely pliable...

 

[Bruins29]

He was as good or better than Flowers or Wise

Jones had a cap hit 10 mil last year 15.5 mil this year and 19.5 next year and was known for disappearing in the playoffs.

Flowers cap hit last year was $755K and will be 2 million next year.

Flowers had 6.5 sacks last year and 62 tackles and assists last year combined.
Jones had 17 sacks last year and 58 tackles and assists combined.

Jones also plays on a team that lets him go after the QB instead of focusing on setting the edge. Setting the edge for NE seems like it been successful hence less aggressive ends and more wins. You know, wins????

I'll take Flowers all day at 750K cap hit and his production and potential (which he has a lot) VS Jones sexy sack numbers and a 10 mil cap hit.

Lets not even get into the value that Flowers gives you with a 2 mil cap hit vs Jones 15.5 cap hit when their stats are going to be similar given the way they are used.

Let me know when you want to post something intelligent.

 

[Ring 6]

That's not a bad thing, since Chandler couldn't set the edge or drop into coverage to save his life.

Jones was a good run defender and rateky list contain.

 

[Ring 6]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the RPO had nothing to do with NE giving up 143 yards rushing to the Steelers or 113 rushing to the Dolphins (in December).

I agree the pats defense was not an average defense last year. Rather, it was an above average one. But I fail to see significant improvement in the D last year from the beginning to the end. A lot of it was obviously personnel. And I agree the Pats D will be a lot better this year, especially the run D.

The improvement was the first few weeks there were communication issue that caused blown assignments. Once they straightened that out they played much better.
Of course like ever team ever, they were better against bad teams than they were against good teams which you seem to think is some kind of anathema

 

[PP2]

They have not played a fame yet.

This is Beth nonsensical and inaccurate.
You say Patricia played a 5-1 which he did but but Flores plays a 4-2 but the linebackers are closer to the line. That’s literally impossible.
There has been no difference.

No I have no interest in “proving you wrong”. You are wrong there is no proof necessary. However I have no interest in discussing what you are wrong about with you because you have proven you are not well educated about football and disinterested in learning, being only interested in finding a way to argue something you don’t even understand is correct.
Case in pint you continue to use Hightower’s comments about play calling in OTAs as a public pronouncement of a new philosophy and act like using reason and understanding it’s a throwaway comment at a unimportant time, is calling Hightower a liar. Of course thiscytam has a long history of discussing strategy in interviews

I have no interest in you explaining your misunderstandings. I am simply responding to incorrect information that you post as if you are passing along insight and information so that readers will understand it’s a load of crap.

From the article:

What exactly a Flores defense looks like won’t become clear until the regular season begins this Sunday against the Houston Texans, but based on what we saw this summer, he seems to favor a more traditional four-man front over the five-man hybrid looks Patricia typically employed

Or are the folks at NESN idiots, who know nothing? Or is Cox the idiot?

Hightower didn't just comment in OTA's he has been making comments like that all summer right up through TC.

And as far as linebackers playing closer to the line, yes that's possible. After all this is a game of inches. Again, what defines a 40 or 50 tech is really up to the DC. Every DC has their opinion and preferences.

 

[Ring 6]

From the article:



Or are the folks at NESN idiots, who know nothing? Or is Cox the idiot?

Hightower didn't just comment in OTA's he has been making comments like that all summer right up through TC.

And as far as linebackers playing closer to the line, yes that's possible. After all this is a game of inches. Again, what defines a 40 or 50 tech is really up to the DC. Every DC has their opinion and preferences.

So you are quoting people at NESN as your opinion. Lol. Yes, they are wrong often. Patricia didn’t play a 5 man front.
But lol at your response.

 

[PP2]

So you are quoting people at NESN as your opinion. Lol. Yes, they are wrong often. Patricia didn’t play a 5 man front.
But lol at your response.

It was something I noticed, and they also noticed it too. And yes, Patricia often played an hybrid 5 man front. HT was often the man on the line.

But of course, everyone else is an idiot except you. Especially Hightower. Keep on tooling.

And when this defense turns out to be different, you're going to malign the meaning of "aggressive."

 

[PScottman]

Everyone loves aggressive blitzing until it is ineffective blitzing then you have shorthanded coverage getting burned.

Your earlier pressure stat quotes really back this up as well as highlight that the common lament (easy completions) are likely correlations - there's a common desire for a blitzing aggressive defense that by it's very design leaves LESS IN COVERAGE which means easy completions if said blitz doesn't get home.

It's always interesting to me that we don't reflect upon the very things our own Patriots' offense exploits in examining the why of their defensive methodology.

 

[Nunchucks]

Jones had a cap hit 10 mil last year 15.5 mil this year and 19.5 next year and was known for disappearing in the playoffs.

Flowers cap hit last year was $755K and will be 2 million next year.

Flowers had 6.5 sacks last year and 62 tackles and assists last year combined.
Jones had 17 sacks last year and 58 tackles and assists combined.

Jones also plays on a team that lets him go after the QB instead of focusing on setting the edge. Setting the edge for NE seems like it been successful hence less aggressive ends and more wins. You know, wins????

I'll take Flowers all day at 750K cap hit and his production and potential (which he has a lot) VS Jones sexy sack numbers and a 10 mil cap hit.

Lets not even get into the value that Flowers gives you with a 2 mil cap hit vs Jones 15.5 cap hit when their stats are going to be similar given the way they are used.

Let me know when you want to post something intelligent.

Wow, you would prefer flowers 6.5 sacks over Jones 17?

Enough said.