What Do You Expect From Defensive Scheme?

[SHOWTIME15]

No. You judge the defense based on how they fair vs the offense they face and their normal.

If a team is scoring 35 a game and the D allows 27ppg then it did its job.

With a couple of exceptions, if you look at the teams they faced they consistently allowed less points than the team scored on average.

We’ll have to disagree here. You always have to account for quality of opponents when judging a defense. What good is it to shut down the Jets when you can’t do it against Philly? I for one am not satisfied with a defense if it gives up 27 points just because they won the game (unless it’s the super bowl).

 

[Ring 6]

That is a pretty fair point.

I am still amazed they improved the defense that much over the year even after losing their second most important player next to Gilmore. So even though I often use the word "over-designed" I still think 2017 was Patricias best coaching job given what he had to work with.

Look at the front 6 he had to work with and what he did with it. That unit had no business being top 5 in scoring but it was. He did a great job but was scheming on borrowed time with that group.

 

[Ring 6]

We’ll have to disagree here. You always have to account for quality of opponents when judging a defense. What good is it to shut down the Jets when you can’t do it against Philly? I for one am not satisfied with a defense if it gives up 27 points just because they won the game (unless it’s the super bowl).

You can’t pick one game and say it’s the only yardstick.
Every team plays good teams and bad teams.
When you adjust for opponent the patriots defense would have been ranked pretty much right in the same spot.
Did the Minnesota defense suck because of the Philly game?

 

[Ring 6]

Have you been watching Pats games over the last ten years?

The Pats best pass rusher is in Arizona, I will grant you that Clayborn is an upgrade over anyone they had last year, but especially against mobile QB, the Pats don't rush, they try to contain, give up easy completions, and still get beat around the edge by the QB when he runs out of the pocket.

And that ends up in wins more often than anyone else.

 

[luuked]

The bend don't break philosophy is predicated on turnovers and stops in the red zone. When one of those pieces fails, the defense becomes a liability, as we saw in the superbowl.

Not really.

The bend but don't break is built upon making the opposing team string together the maxmium amount of positive plays to score instead of going full aggressive and risk allowing big plays. The more chances you give the other team to shoot themselves into the foot the higher the probability that they eventually will. And the closer to the redzone they get and the tighter the spaces become the more risk you can take. It is more or less math.

Foles played the game of his life in the SB maneuvering the pocket well, hitting multiple tight windows & deep throws and made no mistake at all. If your opponent plays an almost perfect game sometimes you lose.

 

[luuked]

We’ll have to disagree here. You always have to account for quality of opponents when judging a defense. What good is it to shut down the Jets when you can’t do it against Philly? I for one am not satisfied with a defense if it gives up 27 points just because they won the game (unless it’s the super bowl).

By that logic the Philly and Vikings defense must really suck given how they collapsed against us and the Eagles respectively.

 

[FCB02062]

From this defense I expect difficulty getting off the field on third down, especially vs good offenses/quarterbacks...Green Bay may not have to activate their punter...I expect very little pressure...I expect a few really good teams vs crappy teams - Buffalo, NYJ, Chicago - to make their ppg look good...even worse, I expected few turnovers. The lack of impact players on defense results in fewer turnovers...

 

[luuked]

You can’t pick one game and say it’s the only yardstick.
Every team plays good teams and bad teams.
When you adjust for opponent the patriots defense would have been ranked pretty much right in the same spot.
Did the Minnesota defense suck because of the Philly game?

I just don't get why it is so difficult for some to understand that the ultimate goal in football (or any sport) is to score more points than the other team. That is literally the ONLY goal in a game.

Going into a game your entire gameplan is build around stopping the 2-3 things an opponent is doing so well that the matchup might become competitive especially because you know that your offense is capable of hanging 25-30 on anyone. So the goal is not to shut them out but to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

If they play left handed and still score 20 points to your 30 who gives a **** ?

 

[PatsFan2]

I would love to see Derek Rivers become an Edge Terror you can see his potential on tape. Rivers - Trey Flowers and Wise Rushing on 3rd Downs should be something.

 

[Ring 6]

I just don't get why it is so difficult for some to understand that the ultimate goal in this game is to score more points than the other team. That is literally the ONLY goal in a game.

Going into a game your entire gameplan is build around stopping the 2-3 things an opponent is doing so well that the game might become competitive especially because you know that your offense is capable to hang 25-30 on anyone. So the goal is not to shut them out but to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

If they play left handed and still score 20 points to your 30 who gives a **** ?

Well said.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I just don't get why it is so difficult for some to understand that the ultimate goal in football (or any sport) is to score more points than the other team. That is literally the ONLY goal in a game.

Going into a game your entire gameplan is build around stopping the 2-3 things an opponent is doing so well that the matchup might become competitive especially because you know that your offense is capable of hanging 25-30 on anyone. So the goal is not to shut them out but to prevent them from doing what they want to do.

If they play left handed and still score 20 points to your 30 who gives a **** ?

Dude this is a thread about the defense. And the question is about the defensive scheme. The offense and STs are irrelevant in this thread. And if you don’t care about how many yards and points the D gives up, then this isn’t the thread for you. The offense won’t be able to score 25-30 points in every game.

 

[maineman209]

Can anyone shed light on this "fast" term that's tossed around?

To me, "fast" may mean a couple different things.

Obviously, one is "athletically fast" - a bunch of guys who are physically capable of flying around and making plays, even in situations that they may have misjudged at the snap (make-up speed). A defense that's fast based primarily on the athleticism of it players may get "gassed" in a longer, hard-fought game if the teams doesn't have enough viable rotational subs, and/or if the conditioning of the players isn't top notch, and/or if the players don't know how to properly pace themselves.

Then there's "anticipation fast". I just made that term up, so there's almost certainly a better one.

What I mean is a defense that may be not so athletically gifted, but is physically well-conditioned, deep (in the sense that there's not an enormous dropoff between the #1s and their rotational/situational subs), very good at correctly diagnosing plays, and very well-trained in their assignments. Early and accurate reads of what the offense is attempting to do, and fewer false steps means a defense that "plays fast", even if the players aren't moving at light-speed.

One of the things I loved about watching Junior Seau in his twilight years with the Pats (well after he'd lost most of his athletic speed) was that he never seemed to be in any particular hurry, and yet he nearly always ended up in the right spot to make the play. He'd seen pretty much every play disguise an offense could throw at him, so his diagnosis was instantaneous. It's like he knew where everybody would end p before it happened. I saw running plays where, after the ball was snapped, Seau would seem to casually stroll over to a spot and just wait for the RB to run right into his open arms. That's "playing fast" without moving fast.

The relevance to this "new Flores defense" is that, there's a popular hypothesis, based primarily on comments by HT, that the defense will "play faster" this season because Flores has made their assignments (how to read and react to specific play scenarios) easier to understand and remember. Fewer "options" to think through = fewer false steps and mistakes.

I think this is probably true.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

By that logic the Philly and Vikings defense must really suck given how they collapsed against us and the Eagles respectively.

Just look at the QBs NE faced after the Carolina game and tell me with a straight face that that had nothing to do with the defensive improvement. Heck, they gave up 20 points to Blake Bortles.

 

[luuked]

Dude this is a thread about the defense. And the question is about the defensive scheme. The offense and STs are irrelevant in this thread. And if you don’t care about how many yards and points the D gives up, then this isn’t the thread for you.

Are you serious ?

Maybe you should reflect about the sport you are watching a bit because if you honestly believe that your ST and O doesn't have an effect on how your defense is called or schemed then you are an absolute moron and maybe should watch simpler sports.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We’ll have to disagree here. You always have to account for quality of opponents when judging a defense. What good is it to shut down the Jets when you can’t do it against Philly? I for one am not satisfied with a defense if it gives up 27 points just because they won the game (unless it’s the super bowl).

The Philly Super Bowl was a fisco and you know it. No one is saying the 2017 defense couldn't be improved.

I'm not talking about winning the game. Pats beat HOU 36-33 last year and everyone can agree the defense was terrible.

I'm talking about keeping a high scoring, explosive offense contained and below its regular output.

 

[luuked]

Just look at the QBs NE faced after the Carolina game and tell me with a straight face that that had nothing to do with the defensive improvement. Heck, they gave up 20 points to Blake Bortles.

As others have said. If you give up less than what your opponent scores on average it is still considered doing a good job. Nobody should give a **** how many yards you give up as long as it doesn't translate to points. I get that the concept of "context" might be too difficult to grasp for some people but giving up 200 yards can be the symptom of an issue but at the same time could also be totally meaningless.

Don't come at me with fantasy level garbage like yards given up and whatnot. You have to look at the overall picture. Hell what words have you heard BB say again and again.. situational football.

 

[Ring 6]

Dude this is a thread about the defense. And the question is about the defensive scheme. The offense and STs are irrelevant in this thread. And if you don’t care about how many yards and points the D gives up, then this isn’t the thread for you. The offense won’t be able to score 25-30 points in every game.

No it’s a thread about football.
It is completely and entirely ignorant to discuss a defensive philosophy without taking into account what your offense is.

 

[patsinthesnow]

By the numbers last year, the Patriots 3rd & 5+ pass rush was actually good & one of the more underrated units in the league. The problem is that the run defense barely got them on the field against the Jaguars nor Eagles.

Add in Clayborn & Rivers allowing Flowers to rush inside more similar to 2016 & I think our pass rush DL could surprise people:

Clayborn - Flowers - Butler - Rivers/Wise

A lot of the potential improvement on the defensive side of the ball will depend on Shelton/Bentley as improvements over Branch/Roberts. Get the pass rush DL on the field more & less 3rd and short situations.

 

[tasmlab]

no pass rush

giving up easy receptions on third and long

no turnovers

you know, the usual stuff

I expect solid run defense. Awful 3rd down defense. Awful passing yardage defense. But still top 5 in points allowed. And I expect them to have to bail us out at least once in the playoffs if we're gonna get number 6

Yup. The unspectacular, hapless non-aggressive do-nothing defense will let the opposing offense walk all over them for 60 minutes but then at the end of the game the scoreboard has the Pats up by three scores.

...and then later make it to the super bowl to win or lose by a micro-margin in the fading seconds of the game.

Love this team.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The Philly Super Bowl was a fisco and you know it. No one is saying the 2017 defense couldn't be improved.

I'm not talking about winning the game. Pats beat HOU 36-33 last year and everyone can agree the defense was terrible.

I'm talking about keeping a high scoring, explosive offense contained and below its regular output.

And I’m not talking wins and losses. I am specifically talking about the defense because that is the topic on this thread. Of course the defense in the Houston was bad but there are people here who don’t seem to care since it was a W.

As far as the super bowl, the defense in the AFCCG wasn’t stellar either. They gave up 20 points to Blake Bortles and allowed the Jaguars to have 35 minutes of possession. The super bowl wasn’t just an outlier of the defense.