NE 2018 TC . week 4 . info

[Ring 6]

Yes a positional coach is kinda responsible for determining why Von Miller is starting his pass rush milliseconds before the center snaps the ball. If you're refusing to see why Von was beating Cannon like a drum one year and the next year Cannon becomes his daddy (hint: it's coaching) then perhaps it's you who needs to take a step back from discussing football

So you think that when an offensive play is called the OL coach is the one who calls the snap count?

At least you now understand the head bob argument was stupid.

So when Von Miller had zero sacks and 1 tackle against the patriots in 2014 was that coaching also?

How am I refusing to see when I am educating you on what actually happened. It was at home though so there was no silent snap count.
And I’m sure the fact that cannon was dealing with an injury all season and in millers big game had nothing to do with it.


But in any event, you are moving all over the place.
I’m not arguing about whether the OL coach was good bad or ugly I’m saying the head bob didn’t tip the snap, the snap count did, and the ol coach doesn’t call the snap count.
It seems you agree with that but are too triggered to say so, so you are adding things to the argument and pretending I said them.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

So you think that when an offensive play is called the OL coach is the one who calls the snap count?

At least you now understand the head bob argument was stupid.

So when Von Miller had zero sacks and 1 tackle against the patriots in 2014 was that coaching also?

How am I refusing to see when I am educating you on what actually happened. It was at home though so there was no silent snap count.
And I’m sure the fact that cannon was dealing with an injury all season and in millers big game had nothing to do with it.


But in any event, you are moving all over the place.
I’m not arguing about whether the OL coach was good bad or ugly I’m saying the head bob didn’t tip the snap, the snap count did, and the ol coach doesn’t call the snap count.
It seems you agree with that but are too triggered to say so, so you are adding things to the argument and pretending I said them.

They're one in the same. I'm actually humoring your argument and throwing you a bone that maybe it wasn't Stork's fault specifically and maybe it was a result of the snap count as you somewhat alluded to. I think (and plenty of other people making the "stupid argument") that the head bob clearly tipped off the pass rush as to when the ball would be snapped. Maybe I should be more specific and say the timing of the snap after the head bob was tipping off the pass rush (I assumed you wouldn't think I expect the center to keep his head down post snap and stare at his nutsack but that's my mistake for giving you the benefit of the doubt). That's either directly a result of the center making it blatantly obvious with his head bob or the snap count. And no, I'm not suggesting that Guge should be in the ****ing huddle calling the snap count. I'm simply suggesting that if the offensive line coach can't tell why his offensive linemen are getting beat so quickly then it is his fault. I don't know if he spotted it and tried to coach Stork or advise the OC about the snap count to no avail or if he simply didn't catch it, and neither do you. All we can do is speculate, but it's pretty clear to anyone who watched that game (and the subsequent game in 2016 with a world of difference in the OL's performance with Scar coaching them) that it was a problem with technique more than it was simply being in Denver or being outmatched.

 

[Ring 6]

They're one in the same. I'm actually humoring your argument and throwing you a bone that maybe it wasn't Stork's fault specifically and maybe it was a result of the snap count as you somewhat alluded to. I think (and plenty of other people making the "stupid argument") that the head bob clearly tipped off the pass rush as to when the ball would be snapped. Maybe I should be more specific and say the timing of the snap after the head bob was tipping off the pass rush (I assumed you wouldn't think I expect the center to keep his head down post snap and stare at his nutsack but that's my mistake for giving you the benefit of the doubt). That's either directly a result of the center making it blatantly obvious with his head bob or the snap count. And no, I'm not suggesting that Guge should be in the ****ing huddle calling the snap count. I'm simply suggesting that if the offensive line coach can't tell why his offensive linemen are getting beat so quickly then it is his fault. I don't know if he spotted it and tried to coach Stork or advise the OC about the snap count to no avail or if he simply didn't catch it, and neither do you. All we can do is speculate, but it's pretty clear to anyone who watched that game (and the subsequent game in 2016 with a world of difference in the OL's performance with Scar coaching them) that it was a problem with technique more than it was simply being in Denver or being outmatched.

The exact point of the discussion was the Stork tipped the snap count because his coach sucked.
You can’t say either it was him or the count because they are 2 very different things with 2 very different responsibilities.

Stork has to lift his head to trigger the count. (Or they could do some other trigger if they wished. A common one is the qb lifting and stomping his foot.)
When the play is called there is a count. In the case a silent one triggered by the head bob.
To blame the center would be like the red light for the car that ran it.

All of your other crap you added to deflect from what the point you were wrong about is a different discussion.

Whether the OL was good or bad has nothing to do with understanding how a silent snap count works and that it’s incorrect to blame the trigger.

Me explaining that it is not correct that stork was at fault is not a positive, negative or neutral comment about the quality of the OL coaching. That wasn’t the topic. Blaming Stork out if ignorance was.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

The exact point of the discussion was the Stork tipped the snap count because his coach sucked.
You can’t say either it was him or the count because they are 2 very different things with 2 very different responsibilities.

So what is your actual stance on why the OL sucked that day? I'm trying to figure out if you have a point or if you're arguing for the sake of it

 

[luuked]

No i am just stating facts here but you’re one of the biggest homers on this board. The wr situation is very thin. Need to hope Edelman and hogan stay healthy the rest of the season. Also hope Jules is the same player before the injury.

rofl

If you can't challenge arguments based on rationality because most of your Pimpin posts are panicky garbage just call people homers. But go on panicking.. only to overreact about something completely different after we start 4-0 or 3-1.

The offense is more than just WRs. One would think after following this team for a while you would realize it by now.

 

[Ring 6]

So what is your actual stance on why the OL sucked that day? I'm trying to figure out if you have a point or if you're arguing for the sake of it

I was discussing the argument that stork was giving away the snap count by bobbing his head for no reason.

How they played that day and why, is a different discussion that I am not going to have right now.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

I was discussing the argument that stork was giving away the snap count by bobbing his head for no reason.

Ok. I typed out a few sentences and realized I actually don't care anymore. I'll just leave it at that

 

[luuked]

I was discussing the argument that stork was giving away the snap count by bobbing his head for no reason.

How they played that day and why, is a different discussion that I am not going to have right now.

Lombardi went into detail on that topic. The head bob thing is a red herring that is not true.

Key Super Bowl Advantages, the Kirk Cousins Sweepstakes, Prop Bets, and the Future of Football | GM Street (Ep. 233) — The Ringer NFL Show — Overcast

I even timestamped the portion of the podcast where he shortly goes into the infamous Denver game.

In short: Stork was playing injured, he didn't hear the snap count and they could not find a way to set it up and essentially snapped every time on 1. Lombardi goes out of his way of saying none of this was Storks fault.

 

[Ring 6]

Lombardi went into detail on that topic. The head bob thing is a red herring that is not true.

Key Super Bowl Advantages, the Kirk Cousins Sweepstakes, Prop Bets, and the Future of Football | GM Street (Ep. 233) — The Ringer NFL Show — Overcast

I even timestamped the portion of the podcast where he shortly goes into the infamous Denver game.

In short: Stork was playing injured, he didn't hear the snap count and they could not find a way to set it up and essentially snapped every time on 1. Lombardi goes out of his way of saying none of this was Storks fault.

That’s what I’ve been saying.
Plus the entire ol was injured. Remember how the season ended, we could barely find 5 guys to put out there.

 

[PP2]

Your article is wrong and was debunked years ago.

By who?

Now you are moving the goalposts. “Have their influence”. Before you said the defense will have Flores philosophy.

You're the only one moving the posts and putting words in other people's mouths. I'm not the only poster to point this out.

Yup make up something I didn’t say.
Hightower said BASED ON PLAY CALLING IN AN OTA Flores is more aggressive. I’m sure that comment is right. I’m also sure okay callling in an ota (just like in a preseason game) tells you nothing.

Hightower said it in OTA's and then he said it again last week, per the Lazar tweet. Is Hightower wrong? You know more than he does?

 

[PP2]

And I explained exactly why your comment was wrong. But you don’t want to listen you just want to look like you won an argument.

Boy, talk about projection. I'm kinda fascinated with this- I have no problem with this marathon, to see how far we can go before this thread gets shut down or you quit.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Lombardi went into detail on that topic. The head bob thing is a red herring that is not true.

Key Super Bowl Advantages, the Kirk Cousins Sweepstakes, Prop Bets, and the Future of Football | GM Street (Ep. 233) — The Ringer NFL Show — Overcast

I even timestamped the portion of the podcast where he shortly goes into the infamous Denver game.

In short: Stork was playing injured, he didn't hear the snap count and they could not find a way to set it up and essentially snapped every time on 1. Lombardi goes out of his way of saying none of this was Storks fault.

So let me get this straight. In short, they snapped on 1 (meaning right after the head bob) every time for whatever reason, and somehow the head bob thing is a red herring? It's literally the same damn thing we've been trying to say the past however many pages

 

[Kontradiction]

"The head bob is a trigger," is probably the worst defense of poor OL play/poor coaching I have ever seen. The head bob also becomes a trigger to the defense when they eventually figure it out (which is why offenses will typically go into a silent count, with the QB telling the rest of the offense what the count is). That they couldn't register that Denver had figured out the head bob is absolutely a bad mark against Guge. Whether or not it proves that Belichick doesn't micromanage is up for interpretation, but it's absolutely damning of Guge and is more than likely why he got shown the door.

 

[PP2]

No you said you are certain he is not in one breath and then said you claim to know nothing about the internal management of the team in another.

B.B. is more detail oriented than any coach in the league.
He watches film to catch tells on players.
He runs drills in practice
He personally coached players on technique
He has a written manual for everything

That is a micromanager. Micromanager does not mean he personally addresses every detail because that would be impossible. It means he manages every detail, through his people by teaching them what he wants and demanding it of them.

You are seriously trying to argue that a coach who has overwhelming chosen to set his defense up as e trendily conservative, with not allowing big plays being the most important factor, because he knows he wins more games that way is going to allow a lb coach who isn’t even a coordinator and is calling plays for the first time to decide on his own what level of conservative or aggressive the defense will play, and let him roll “until there is a problem”. That’s ludicrous.
Flores will call the plays. But he will call them based upon a game plan (philosophy) that is what Belichick wants.
If Belichick and Flores differ philosophically I believe Belichick gets his way, you are saying Flores can run his philosophy until there is a problem. You are flat out wrong.

Then why didn't he catch Stork's tell which was already on film as far ago as the KC game? Hali was already getting a jump on it.

Please do yourself a favor and read this link throughoutly:

Horrible Passing: The KC Recap - Inside The Pylon

They show videos and stills to show CLEARLY how Hali was already firing off the LOS before everyone else. How is it possible to "debunk" this kind of evidence?

Film doesn't lie.

 

[PP2]

No they didn’t.
They tees off on the snap count after the trigger.
Stork is required to lift his head to tell his own team the silent count starts. He can’t not lift his head.
Are you seriously telling me that you think the OL coach is responsible for calling the snap count? If you are going to say things like that let’s just forget about football and talk about movies or something because that is an insane misunderstanding of coaching responsibilities.

Brady got hit 20 times, and sacked 4 times in that game. Von Miller himself has said it was because of Stork.

Hard to believe it was caused by the silent count when they just kept doing the exact same thing over and over again, allowing Von Miller, Ware, and the others to get into a real good rhythm.

Why didn't they vary the silent count?

 

[A Defiant Goose]

"The head bob is a trigger," is probably the worst defense of poor OL play/poor coaching I have ever seen. The head bob also becomes a trigger to the defense when they eventually figure it out (which is why offenses will typically go into a silent count, with the QB telling the rest of the offense what the count is). That they couldn't register that Denver had figured out the head bob is absolutely a bad mark against Guge. Whether or not it proves that Belichick doesn't micromanage is up for interpretation, but it's absolutely damning of Guge and is more than likely why he got shown the door.

Exactly. And I say exactly knowing that the bolded is probably directed at me. But let me clarify that when I say "the head bob gave it away" I mean the head bob and subsequent consistent timing of the snap afterwards, as I think most of us do. Stork was giving away the snap count. Whether it's his fault or Guge (I lean toward Guge) is a different point

 

[PP2]

Lombardi went into detail on that topic. The head bob thing is a red herring that is not true.

Key Super Bowl Advantages, the Kirk Cousins Sweepstakes, Prop Bets, and the Future of Football | GM Street (Ep. 233) — The Ringer NFL Show — Overcast

I even timestamped the portion of the podcast where he shortly goes into the infamous Denver game.

In short: Stork was playing injured, he didn't hear the snap count and they could not find a way to set it up and essentially snapped every time on 1. Lombardi goes out of his way of saying none of this was Storks fault.

He conveniently leaves out the KC game, and also doesn't mention the other games that season where that became a trouble. Stork was not injured in the KC game.

How else was Von Miller ready to jump all over it in the AFCC game? He had seen it on film previously.

 

[Ring 6]

Then why didn't he catch Stork's tell which was already on film as far ago as the KC game? Hali was already getting a jump on it.

Because it’s not a tell. It’s a silent snap TRIGGER. You have to have one. How many times do I have to explain this to you.

Please do yourself a favor and read this link throughoutly:

Horrible Passing: The KC Recap - Inside The Pylon

They show videos and stills to show CLEARLY how Hali was already firing off the LOS before everyone else. How is it possible to "debunk" this kind of evidence?

Film doesn't lie.

Oh my god.
So if Brady had a verbal snap count and calls every play on 1, going down, set, hut as the cadence you think that “set” is a tell?
The head bob is LITERALLY the silent equivalent of “set”.

 

[Ring 6]

He conveniently leaves out the KC game, and also doesn't mention the other games that season where that became a trouble. Stork was not injured in the KC game.

How else was Von Miller ready to jump all over it in the AFCC game? He had seen it on film previously.

It is a silent snap count. It has nothing to do with his injury.
You really can’t be this dense.

Please explain how you think a silent snap count works.

 

[PP2]

The exact point of the discussion was the Stork tipped the snap count because his coach sucked.
You can’t say either it was him or the count because they are 2 very different things with 2 very different responsibilities.

Stork has to lift his head to trigger the count. (Or they could do some other trigger if they wished. A common one is the qb lifting and stomping his foot.)
When the play is called there is a count. In the case a silent one triggered by the head bob.
To blame the center would be like the red light for the car that ran it.

All of your other crap you added to deflect from what the point you were wrong about is a different discussion.

Whether the OL was good or bad has nothing to do with understanding how a silent snap count works and that it’s incorrect to blame the trigger.

Me explaining that it is not correct that stork was at fault is not a positive, negative or neutral comment about the quality of the OL coaching. That wasn’t the topic. Blaming Stork out if ignorance was.

No the point is why BB didn't catch this. Why didn't he do anything about it? You are the one who says that he micromanages.