2018 Training Camp Thread - Day 10 (8/7/18)

[A Defiant Goose]

Well when your contribution to the discussion is “only time will tell” that’s pretty conclusive that you feel there is nothing to discuss because no matter what opinion anyone has, your position is “only time will tell”.

My point being finding one out of thousands of longshots that made it to use as the argument that a longshot has a strong chance of beating out a proven veteran is not a realistic argument but just a “hey anything could happen” And it kind of sells Edelman short for the work and dedication it took to be that one of thousands.

My point was, despite Britt showing NFL success for however many years it doesn't mean it will translate to NE, regardless of what late round short white WR you're comparing him to. It's not a matter of overhyping Braxton or Berrios because of their height it's just that results outside of NE don't usually translate to results in NE. Literally we won't know until it all plays out. That shouldn't be read as "Stop talking about it because we don't know," it was just meant to be a friendly reminder that especially in NE the past doesn't matter

 

[Ring 6]

My point was, despite Britt showing NFL success for however many years it doesn't mean it will translate to NE, regardless of what late round short white WR you're comparing him to. It's not a matter of overhyping Braxton or Berrios because of their height it's just that results outside of NE don't usually translate to results in NE. Literally we won't know until it all plays out. That shouldn't be read as "Stop talking about it because we don't know," it was just meant to be a friendly reminder that especially in NE the past doesn't matter

But the same argument holds for Berrios or McCarron as well.
Results outside of New England hold up just as well as latecroubf draft choice or udfa short white WRs making it, in face better because there are zero of the later to note. Welker is an example of the former not the latter.

 

[Love The Drake]

Its so hard to tell I read Berrios makes a diving catch on a underthrown Hoyer ball.
Im like yes Braxton!
Then next line Jordan Richards was in coverage and I go dont know if that is impressive or not now.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

But the same argument holds for Berrios or McCarron as well.
Results outside of New England hold up just as well as latecroubf draft choice or udfa short white WRs making it, in face better because there are zero of the later to note. Welker is an example of the former not the latter.

You have to be fair to the comparisons though. We've seen vet WRs come in and fail here (Galloway, Ocho, Holt??) and underdog short white guys succeed (Welker, Jules, to a lesser extent Dola since I don't think he was an underdog per se). So it's understandable but you're right that the "rules" apply to late round longshots as well

 

[jimnance]

Don't you understand that he's the next Edelman because this board decided he was?

Anyone who lives in reality knows he's an EXTREME longshot to make the 53.
Maybe the PS, but I even see that as a battle for him.

 

[Ring 6]

You have to be fair to the comparisons though. We've seen vet WRs come in and fail here (Galloway, Ocho, Holt??) and underdog short white guys succeed (Welker, Jules, to a lesser extent Dola since I don't think he was an underdog per se). So it's understandable but you're right that the "rules" apply to late round longshots as well

Galloway Ocho and Holt were all guys trying to hang on for another year after they were over the hill (although that wasn’t known about ocho until after he got here). Others such as Lloyd, gaffney, Welker, cooks came here and played well.

Welker was established as was Amendola. Edelman isn’t a short guy. He is 6’.

What I am saying is because we picked up 2 guys who are short, shifty slot receivers and one was the best ever and the other a regular season bust but big time post season guy at times doesn’t mean and short white guy is going to succeed because of it. Those 2 had produced in the nfl. These 2 were mediocre receivers in college.
It’s just a thing I have an issue with. Welker and Amendola succeeding against long odds after establishing themselves has absolutely nothing to do with these long shot rookies.

I guess my point is having shown success in the NFL may not guarantee anything but it shows you are capable of success at this level and gives you a much better chance than someone who has not, and especially someone who didn’t even show much at the college level.

 

[Ring 6]

Anyone who lives in reality knows he's an EXTREME longshot to make the 53.
Maybe the PS, but I even see that as a battle for him.

@DaBruinz thinks he is making the 53 and would never make it to the practice squad because teams would be lining up to put him on their 53

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Galloway Ocho and Holt were all guys trying to hang on for another year after they were over the hill (although that wasn’t known about ocho until after he got here). Others such as Lloyd, gaffney, Welker, cooks came here and played well.

Welker was established as was Amendola. Edelman isn’t a short guy. He is 6’.

What I am saying is because we picked up 2 guys who are short, shifty slot receivers and one was the best ever and the other a regular season bust but big time post season guy at times doesn’t mean and short white guy is going to succeed because of it. Those 2 had produced in the nfl. These 2 were mediocre receivers in college.
It’s just a thing I have an issue with. Welker and Amendola succeeding against long odds after establishing themselves has absolutely nothing to do with these long shot rookies.

I guess my point is having shown success in the NFL may not guarantee anything but it shows you are capable of success at this level and gives you a much better chance than someone who has not, and especially someone who didn’t even show much at the college level.

Other than 6' not being short in your eyes we're probably mostly in agreement. I just "get" the comparisons and the optimism regarding the fit of short shifty (yea, we can probably drop the black vs white **** while we're at it) WRs vs. pessimism with bigger veteran WRs. FWIW I anticipate Britt being one who can actually break that mold and not follow in the steps of Ocho, Galloway, Holt, Wayne, etc and find a niche here. I think McCarron and Berrios probably follow the Sudfeld mold of good preseason, serious hype, picked up by the Jets and then are never heard from again

 

[maineman209]

Hmm, begins with a "D" and ends with an "ez."

My bad. I didn't realize that "Dez" is a plural noun.

 

[PatsFan2]

Other than 6' not being short in your eyes we're probably mostly in agreement. I just "get" the comparisons and the optimism regarding the fit of short shifty (yea, we can probably drop the black vs white **** while we're at it) WRs vs. pessimism with bigger veteran WRs. FWIW I anticipate Britt being one who can actually break that mold and not follow in the steps of Ocho, Galloway, Holt, Wayne, etc and find a niche here. I think McCarron and Berrios probably follow the Sudfeld mold of good preseason, serious hype, picked up by the Jets and then are never heard from again

WR Riley McCarron have been working with the ones take it for what it's worth.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Edelman was measured at 5103 for pro day. Impressive growth spurt after he was drafted!

 

[Tony2046]

Huge thing to ask for out of anyone, much less these two guys but if Braxton or Berrios (holy **** it was hard to type Berrios and not Berries) can replace half of what Amendola did in the clutch it'd be a homerun pick

Funny rating for the berries comment. Liked the post.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Funny rating for the berries comment. Liked the post.

I seriously had to try like 4 times to type Berrios.

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

I'd like Webb, Berrios, and McCarron to all be available for the practice squad.

Oddly, it may be good if none of them shines too much in the preseason games.

 

[Clonamery]

WR Riley McCarron have been working with the ones take it for what it's worth.

This would mean something I suppose if it was leading up to Preseason Game #3.

 

[jimnance]

@DaBruinz thinks he is making the 53 and would never make it to the practice squad because teams would be lining up to put him on their 53

Consider the source.

 

[maineman209]

I'd like Webb, Berrios, and McCarron to all be available for the practice squad.

Oddly, it may be good if none of them shines too much in the preseason games.

Young guys who look fairly legit in Pats' Camp and pre-season almost never clear waivers during final cuts.

 

[Ring 6]

Young guys who look fairly legit in Pats' Camp and pre-season almost never clear waivers during final cuts.

Recently a few have been picked up but historically most don’t.

 

[rochrist]

Interesting. Several other observers said it was his best practice.

 

[long distance]

ST news from:
Day 10 Blogservations: PUPs start barking


--- The kickoff team featured a first line of (l-r) Devin McCourty, Cordarrelle Patterson, Marquis Flowers, Eddie Pleasant, and Brandon Bolden to the left of kicker Stephen Gostkowski. Nicholas Grigsby, Patrick Chung, Geneo Grissom, Brandon King, and Jordan Richards lined up to the kicker’s right. Several other players rotated in for the next few reps, including Stephon Gilmore, Jason McCourty, rookies Duke Dawson and Ja’Whuan Bentley, Jacob Hollister, Mike Gillislee, Jeremy Hill, and others. With the new NFL kickoff rules taking effect this season, five players must line up on either side of the kicker on every kickoff, including onside kicks.

--- McCarron and rookie Braxton Berrios took turns fielding the kickoffs on the scout return team, and continued in that capacity when the kickoff return team became the focus of the next special teams period. From a coverage perspective, the new kickoff rules dictate that at least eight players on the receiving team must be within a 15-yard “setup zone” near and around midfield. That leaves just three other players to line up deep to receive the kickoff. Rex Burkhead, Jordan Richards, Jeremy Hill, and Dwayne Allen rotated as the up men for McCarron and Berrios in this particular period.

--- From the back of the end zone, Cyrus Jones took mental reps during the kickoff period as he watched McCarron and Berrios handle the actual chores on the field.

--- Richards served as the primary personal protector for punter Ryan Allen during the punt coverage period. In previous camp practices this summer, Demarius Travis has come in to replace Richards. Today, when rookie punter Corey Bojorquez subbed in for Allen, Chris Hogan stepped in to spell Richards as personal protector. It was noteworthy not only because this was the first time we’ve spotted Hogan in such a role, it’s also unusual to see such a high-profile player taking snaps in that spot. Travis eventually took a few reps at personal protector during the drill.

--- McCarron, Berrios, Burkhead, and Edelman fielded the punts on the scout punt return team.

--- Allen held placekicks for Gostkowski during all the field goal work Tuesday. Bojorquez has had his chances on previous days, but this time it was Allen’s turn in the rotation. As the incumbent in the punting job battle, Allen seems to have a lead over his rookie rival through 10 days of practice. Gostkowski, by the way, nailed all of his field goal attempts from various distances and positions on and between the hash marks.