2018 Training Camp Thread - Day 12 (8/13/18)

[Captain Cliche]

Quite a few of us were wrong about Edelman.

I recall that McDaniels kept going to Edelman instead of Welker.
I thought they were screwing with Welker over incentives, or upcoming free agency.
Edelman must have been tearing it up in practice.

It took Edelman a while to click.
Another championship trait other teams lack...patience to stick with your convictions and develop players that show potential and work ethic, as opposed going with names, draft position, and favoritism.

I know a hockey player in college that kept getting passed over for playing time because the coach played his favorites and ass kissers. It's not always merit based.

Of course Welker left in free agency and the sky was falling.
He must be either a knucklehead or head case to pass up such a good thing.
Don't recall him tearing it up with Denver.
He only had a couple years left in the tank.
Again, there is so much we don't have access to as fans.

But I still drink my daily "Don't Bonk".

 

[Ring 6]

That is kinda what I was attempting to say. The team will want to limit guarantees to points where they feel comfortable they can do an informed projection of him ( e.g. via OTAs or even camp) whereas he will want them guaranteed as soon as possible. If they can find some compromise (injury splits, incentives) then I see no reason why they can't continue multiyear extensions but it sounds like the current adjustment with those 5m incentives was already a months long struggle.

I hadn’t heard anything about this raise being a struggle. Can you fill me in on the info you have?

 

[bormio]

Quite a few of us were wrong about Edelman.

But only some are willing to admit it - and some act like their opinions are infallible.

 

[maineman209]

But only some are willing to admit it - and some act like their opinions are infallible.

Just a reminder ...

As a rookie in 2009, Edelman caught 37/54 (68.5%) for a 9.7 ypc. He also had 6 PR for a 10.5 avg, and 11 KR for a 21.9 avg.

In his first game as a targeted receiver, on September 20th, he caught only 8 of 16 tgts for 98 yds. I'm sure some folks had some, er, misgivings. However, in his next game he caught 3 of 5 for 20. In the succeeding five games, he went 15 of 15 for 110 yds and a TD.

In the disastrous WC game against the Ravens, Edelman (subbing for the injured Welker) caught 6/8 and 2 TDs from Brady (the Pats' only two TDs of the game). He also had a 28-yd PR.

Pretty good start for a receiver/returner who'd been a QB the season before.

 

[RobertWeathers]

But only some are willing to admit it - and some act like their opinions are infallible.

I don't know if i really had an opinion on him. I'd like to think I'm optimistic about every player thinking they have a chance to stick here. I bet my take on him was.....

April, 2009- "Who? Meh. Whatever"
August, 2009- "Hmm. Seems good in the return game. Looks like he can catch the ball. Pretty fast dude"
February, 2010- "He belongs in the NFL"
August, 2013- "I can't see him replacing or being better than Welker."
February, 2014- "Jules is awesome"
February, 2015- "Jules is a Top 20 WR"
February, 2017- "Jules is God"

 

[luuked]

I hadn’t heard anything about this raise being a struggle. Can you fill me in on the info you have?

Whats the point ? You will call ******** on any media report anyway.

Here it is:



Some beat guys were saying that Brady didn't particularly like the incentives approach so the second move that turned 10m of his base salary into a bonus was a compromise.



But I will not go through 7 days of Twitter to find you those tweets.

 

[Ring 6]

Whats the point ? You will call ******** on any media report anyway.

Here it is:



Some beat guys were saying that Brady didn't particularly like the incentives approach so the second move that turned 10m of his base salary into a bonus was a compromise.



But I will not go through 7 days of Twitter to find you those tweets.

Why would I call bs on something when you can back it up?

I don’t think converting salary to signing bonus had anything to do with Brady caring because it doesn’t mean anything to him, he gets the same money either way.
It’s to the teams benefit to push the cap hit out, in fact they probably had no choice but to, since it would have cut deep into their available cap space.

 

[luuked]

Why would I call bs on something when you can back it up?

I don’t think converting salary to signing bonus had anything to do with Brady caring because it doesn’t mean anything to him, he gets the same money either way.
It’s to the teams benefit to push the cap hit out, in fact they probably had no choice but to, since it would have cut deep into their available cap space.

There was no change to the cap. The only difference is Brady has earned the money now and not in 17 installments (i.e. injury might cost him some incentives but in turn he has more security through the 10m).

Why would I call bs on something when you can back it up?

Because of how you dismissed anything controversial towards Brady coming from the media during the entire offseason.

 

[Ring 6]

But only some are willing to admit it - and some act like their opinions are infallible.

I was skeptical of Edelman but as of the start of 2013 how could you not be?
He was coming off 32 receptions over 3 seasons and and 35 games.

 

[Ring 6]

There was no change to the cap. The only difference is Brady has earned the money now and not in 17 installments (i.e. injury might cost him some incentives but in turn he has more security through the 10m).

Yes there was change to the cap. It pushed 5 mill to next year out to offset the 5 million extra in incentives.
Had they not converted the salary there would have been a 5 mill cap hit.

If you think Brady cares whether he gets 10 million today vs in his season paychecks I’m
not sure what to tell you.
He has no more security in the 10million at all, the only difference is timing. If he gets injured he would get it all either way.

 

[Ring 6]

Because of how you dismissed anything controversial towards Brady coming from the media during the entire offseason.

As I said why would I dismiss something that can be backed up.
Of course I dismissed the bs reports that weren’t.

 

[luuked]

Yes there was change to the cap. It pushed 5 mill to next year out to offset the 5 million extra in incentives.
Had they not converted the salary there would have been a 5 mill cap hit.

Nothing was pushed anywhere. Those incentives are all NLTBE and will affect next year's cap if they are reached. And those 10m were always charged to this year. I honestly have no idea what you are on about.

 

[Kontradiction]

I was skeptical of Edelman but as of the start of 2013 how could you not be?
He was coming off 32 receptions over 3 seasons and and 35 games.

Skeptical is one thing. Calling the guy "not an NFL caliber WR" is another thing completely.

 

[Ring 6]

Nothing was pushed anywhere. Those incentives are all NLTBE and will affect next year's cap if they are reached. And those 10m were always charged to this year. I honestly have no idea what you are on about.

You are wrong. The incentives are all LTBE and all hit the cap this year. $5,000,000 increase in cal hit.
The conversion of salary to bonus takes 10,000,000 salary and makes it a bonus that amortized over the remaining 2 years, 5 mill this year 5 mill next.

Do you understand what converting a salary to signing bonus means?

 

[luuked]

You are wrong. The incentives are all LTBE and all hit the cap this year. $5,000,000 increase in cal hit.
The conversion of salary to bonus takes 10,000,000 salary and makes it a bonus that amortized over the remaining 2 years, 5 mill this year 5 mill next.

Do you understand what converting a salary to signing bonus means?

Last thing I read about this was the cap people agreeing that by tieing the incentives to the SB win they had become NLTBE. Miguel even liked the post where I wrote exactly that two days ago. I guess all of them were wrong / worked with incomplete information back then.

 

[Ring 6]

Last thing I read about this was the cap people agreeing that by tieing the incentives to the SB win they had become NLTBE. Miguel even liked the post where I wrote exactly that two days ago. I guess all of them were wrong / worked with incomplete information back then.

No you are wrong.
The incentives are not tied to winnng the SB. Thet are LTBE. They can individually double by winning the Sb but still cap at 5 mill.

If they were NLTBE then converting 10 mill of salary to signing bonus would mean the patriots lowered this years cap number by 5 million. They haven’t

 

[Ring 6]

Last thing I read about this was the cap people agreeing that by tieing the incentives to the SB win they had become NLTBE. Miguel even liked the post where I wrote exactly that two days ago. I guess all of them were wrong / worked with incomplete information back then.

Tom Brady

Contract Notes:

• 2018 Incentives: $1M each for
  Top 5 in passer rating (LTBE)
  Top 5 in completion percentage (LTBE)
  Top 5 in yards per attempt (LTBE)
  Top 5 in touchdown passes (LTBE)
  Top 5 in passing yards (LTBE)
• 2018 Salary Advance ($10M/ 2 years)
• 2018 Per Game Active Bonus: $62,500 ($1M)
• 2019 Per Game Active Bonus: $62,500 ($1M)

 

[captain stone]

I agree on McCarron but it’s too early to make that proclamation for Berrios.

Both his hand size and arm length are below even league minimum standards. Unless he develops a "Jerry Rice" grip, how in the world is he ever going to reach out and catch passes vs game day active-quality NFL competition?

 

[Kontradiction]

Both his hand size and arm length are below even league minimum standards. Unless he develops a "Jerry Rice" grip, how in the world is he ever going to reach out and catch passes vs game day active-quality NFL competition?

Hopefully the same ways that Wes Welker and Darren Sproles did.