2018 Training Camp Thread - Days 4 & 5 (7/29-30/18)

[PatsFan2]

I have my doubts that his football career is going to be a long one regardless. His knees have absorbed a lot of damage already.

Mitchell has shown that he's Tough especially in his Rookie year...they seem to be holding out some hope but I agree he might be an injury away from the end. I hope his latest procedure yields some positive results but I am not holding my breath.

 

[long distance]

This was not the game for the big nickel. It was a game to match up your 3 best CBs against their 3 wide outs, to match your underrated SS against their TE, and let your captain and best defensive center fielder use his range, instincts and tackling skills to cover over the top while also trying to stop 20 yard runs from turning into 4o yard runs.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, Kenneth, but Belichick started the season against KC with the same exact big nickel scheme. Even after watching it fail miserably against their RPO attack, he went back to it in the biggest game of the year, so he must have felt that there was a good reason to go back to it.

I think he was concerned with their ability to run the ball down NE’s throats, which they ended up doing in both games, anyway.

Not only did they play a lot of big nickel . they went pretty heavy on “7 dwarfs“ (4S 7DB) defence . possibly as their theoretical answer against growing RPO game. They invested lots of resources in that DB D (max contracts for Gilmore and D-Mac, keeping Butler, extensions and raises for Chung and Harmon, 2nd round pick for Richards) so clearly they wanted this vision to succeed. In theory its a good idea (and some others are using it as well) but with Richards not being able to step up as solid “star“ option and the meltdown of run D due to disappointing Branch, injured Brown and missing Hightower - it failed - at the beginning with Butler and without him at the end.

After it failed miserably vs KC - they backed a little bit, slowly bringing in M.Flowers as “star“ option and somehow weathered the storm through the season - with simplified DB play that finally produced Gilmore's island - only to come back to it in SBLII in a way most people still don't understand. Maybe solid run D performance vs Titans and Jaguars gave them false confidence (also going against their own leftover LGB who replied w 90 yds and a TD) - we might never know.

Apart from all the analytics and dramas - as Lombardi said already going into conference games weekend - PHI was always the worst matchup for Pats D mainly bc Pats D played too slow for them.

Going in 2018 BB&co did address some of key issues - bringing in Shelton, Clayborn, drafting Dawson, 2 LBs and bringing back M.Flowers in addition to returning Hightower, Rivers, K.Davis, Langi so we'll see how it goes. At least one thing was very obvious in first week of TC - baring multiple injuries 2018 run and GL D will be legit. Add reported simplified hence faster D and BB might be on to something..

 

[long distance]

This 2018 Patriots OL have the making to be the best ever....

Brown - Wynn - Andrews - Mason - Cannon

That's a sick OL who cover the bases so to speak in both Pass Protection and Run Blocking. I don't see Brady getting hit alot behind that OL. It has the potential to be like that Raider OL that protected Rich Gannon years ago he barely got touched at times you couldn't even see him behind them. P.s. you can see that BB thinks very highly of Wynn, if that Line holds up health wise Brady can definitely play three more.

If Cannon is healthy and they’re kicking Wynn inside to guard, I wouldn’t mind Thuney competing with Andrews for the C job.

At the moment Dante's line is clearly:

T.Brown - Thuney - Andrews - Mason - Cannon

with Wynn playing exclusively LT in second unit and coming in for T.Brown at times.
He was put at LG when Thuney was out but never again after that.
He can play that of course if needed but he is clearly competing for starting LT position and looks to be Pats LT of the future.

 

[PatsFan2]

At the moment Dante's line is clearly:

T.Brown - Thuney - Andrews - Mason - Cannon

with Wynn playing exclusively LT in second unit and coming in for T.Brown at times.
He was put at LG when Thuney was out but never again after that.
He can play that of course if needed but he is clearly competing for starting LT position and looks to be Pats LT of the future.

I get what you're saying but why move Mount Brown if he's playing well...isn't Bigger always better??

 

[maineman209]

Don't recall that, don't have it in my notes. Even when Chung came in for Amendola in preseason game 2 Burkhead came in for Chung as personal protector. Maybe he did some KR . at times he was fully healthy that is.. Certainly something to monitor though.

You may be correct that it was KR reps for Burkhead, rather than PR. But I'm pretty sure he took some reps as a returner in at least one practice. IIRC, it wasn't extensive or any kind of regular thing - more to see whether or not they could put him on the list of backups.

 

[maineman209]

Maybe these 2 play well in a contract year but with the way they’ve played up to this point do you think Shelton and brown deserve a raise from 1.5-2 mil a season to 7 mil year 5?

There are DTs in the league who were about as productive as Shelton over the last three season and NOT as productive as Brown, who are already making $10M+ this year. Might be a bargain at $7M each.

 

[PatsFan2]

Word on the streets in Foxboro MA is that Shelton have been working extensively with the ones. And is tossing Interior linemen left and right. Have BB found Shelton's secret motivation button?? The Games will tell...in other news Malcom Brown have been dormant.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

I get what you're saying but why move Mount Brown if he's playing well...isn't Bigger always better??

Even with the fastest pass rushers, it would take 4 seconds just to get around Brown. I hope they can lock him up long term before he becomes too expensive.

 

[long distance]

I get what you're saying but why move Mount Brown if he's playing well...isn't Bigger always better??

Mount Brown it is!

Id be surprised if he stays here more than one season though. If he plays well and consistent at LT - he'll get 10-15 apy elsewhere (and probably pulls a Branch after that). If he doesn't, Wynn steps up at any point in time.

Last year, BB was happy to have 4 solid LTs for the season and ended up using them all.
After losing Solder and unluckily Garcia (+Jelks) he still might end up upgrading that depth this yr despite what looked like non-existent OT market and bad draft class. And saving some 10M cap space (not to mention adding to draft capital) in the process.

Cannon - T.Brown - Wynn - Waddle (+ Croston who looks bigger, stronger and could still well have the future here) seems much more solid depth at the start of this training camp compared to last year's > Cannon - Solder (inj) - Waddle (inj) - Fleming.

Its just unbelievable how seamless he builds teams from the toughest position year in year out.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Im a little concerned about Bradys under throw getting picked off.
I dont know if it is just getting the timing down with Patterson or if Brady didnt have enough strength behind it.
Anyone see it care to give their thought

So one pass in TC has some here concerned. Seriously?
Why do they HAVE TC? Is this the beginning of TC or is it the 3rd pre-season game?
QBs under throw, overthrow and miss open receivers.

 

[PatsFan2]

Even with the fastest pass rushers, it would take 4 seconds just to get around Brown. I hope they can lock him up long term before he becomes too expensive.

I still cannot believe they let the Great Dante Scar refine a toy like Trent Brown. I hear BB said Brown is not your average Big Guy he can bend and get low with the best of them. If he plays with that kind of leverage DE's/LB's are going to be at a lost.

 

[luuked]

Why was is a blunder? Hicks went back to the GM who drafted him and basically guaranteed more playing time. Like they always do, Bill countered as its common practice not to bid against themselves but Hicks's mind was already made up.

Believe me, losing Hicks sucked but I'm not going to bash the team's personnel philosophy when it works 95% of the time.

I am not bashing anything. I am happy with the general approach of how the roster is managed to the point where I get called out on it by some posters. In this case -- after hearing what Lombardi said about simply underestimating the market -- I just think that they screwed it up and ended up having to pay someone notoriously known to have conditioning issues almost the same amount of money that Hicks got.

But whatever like you said pointless to lament that.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I still cannot believe they let the Great Dante Scar refine a toy like Trent Brown. I hear BB said Brown is not your average Big Guy he can bend and get low with the best of them. If he plays with that kind of leverage DE's/LB's are going to be at a lost.

He could be better than Solder.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

I still cannot believe they let the Great Dante Scar refine a toy like Trent Brown. I hear BB said Brown is not your average Big Guy he can bend and get low with the best of them. If he plays with that kind of leverage DE's/LB's are going to be at a lost.

I think trading for Trent Brown, we got a steal!

Ohhh and my insider who broke the edelman suspension before everyone else just told me that the Patriots are keeping an eye on Giants QB Davis Webb.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

People

Trent Brown is way better than Nate Soldier. You will see but mark my words

 

[Hammer of Thor]

People

Trent Brown is way better than Nate Soldier. You will see but mark my words

I hope so. But if that’s the case, why did the 49ers give up on him? They’re not the Browns; Lynch and Shanahan seem to know what they’re doing.

 

[jah]

I hope so. But if that’s the case, why did the 49ers give up on him? They’re not the Browns; Lynch and Shanahan seem to know what they’re doing.

What makes you say that? They've handed out some pretty awful contracts since taking over. Lynch specifically.

Besides, even if the 49ers knew what they were doing as you say, that's just not how football works. Sometimes it's the system. Sometimes it's a player's motivation for one team vs another. There's too many variables.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

What makes you say that? They've handed out some pretty awful contracts since taking over. Lynch specifically.

Besides, even if the 49ers knew what they were doing as you say, that's just not how football works. Sometimes it's the system. Sometimes it's a player's motivation for one team vs another. There's too many variables.

The talent on their roster is deeper than 2 years ago. Yes, they’ve been drafting in high positions, but that doesn’t always translate - like Cleveland.

If they traded him due to scheme differences then fine, I just don’t recall hearing that during the draft.

 

[Uptown]

He could be better than Solder.

He’s better than Solder.

 

[captain stone]

Ohhh and my insider who broke the edelman suspension before everyone else just told me that the Patriots are keeping an eye on Giants QB Davis Webb.

As a #3, or #2?