Why Is Innovator Bill Belichick Inflexible About Flexibility?

[patriot1136]

As a healthcare professional, the whole Guerrero method is very frustrating and goes against a lot of what I know and have learned. On the flip side, I am intrigued by it because clearly it has worked extremely well for Brady. Part of me thinks there may be a 'placebo effect' with some of Guerrero's stuff. Not to mention, eating healthy and stretching/plyometrics/agility training etc. are always beneficial and can keep a person young. I'm not sure about the whole 'nightshades vegetables' promoting inflammation though, in addition to some of these other claims. They have plenty of health benefits such as certain vitamins and antioxidants. I would need to see some credible research on that.
Anyways, the point I'm trying to make is that it works for Brady, and seems like Gronk has had success with it, so tough to argue against their methods.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Me to my fitness/yoga/physical therapy guru: "How would you go about it if you were asked to train football players?" Him: "I guess I'd do a lot of kettle bell work."

 

[holyredeemer]

What works for a 41 year old health conscious QB who eats like a vegan is not likely to work with a 320 lb OL.
The majority of nfl players need strength and conditioning work, not pliability.

*I posted something insensitive and apologize to anyone who may have read it and been offended.

 

[holyredeemer]

Armchair speculation: they may also want to minimize a possible conflict of interest since AG works for Tom and it could seem like Brady is gaining additional revenue from the Patriots organization that is not tracked in Brady's salary contract. The fact that Brady takes a salary discount would just make this seem worse.

This is one area I feel a lot of people have overlooked in all this drama. A.G. is Brady’s top employee. He makes the man money. He has a facility in the Patriots Parking lot. It just all screams conflict of interest.

 

[Ring 6]

Define what "fine" means in this context.

And, of course, it should be mentioned that Gronk not being "fine" (whatever that means) at the beginning of camp was largely irrelevant given how well he performed in the regular season.

There were reports that gronk sucked at the start of camp. I believe those reports cited that as a reason belichick had issues with Guerrero conflicting with the team training and conditioning staff

 

[Ring 6]

Saying Tom Brady eats like a vegan would be like me saying I’m gay. Both are a complete lie. One of us eats meat, and the other doesn’t. I do agree with the S&C vs Pliability statement though.

Eats like a vegan was short hand for his restrictive diet, not meant literally.

You sexual orientation is your business.

 

[Boogs]

What works for a 41 year old health conscious QB who eats like a vegan is not likely to work with a 320 lb OL.
The majority of nfl players need strength and conditioning work, not pliability.

I agree with your first statement. But athletes often need mobility work in areas where the mobility is not good. Gaining proper mobility can help injuries recover faster, prevent injuries and improve performance in some cases.
It depends on the athlete, the age, the weaknesses of the athlete, the past injuries, recovery, mobility, position, and the style in which the athlete plays the position.

This is really key for Qb's. Mobility of the body is crucial for throwers and athletes that rely on precision.

Also the longer an athlete has lifted heavy weights and the older he gets while lifting, the more he will need to focus attention on his mobility.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree with your first statement. But athletes often need mobility work in areas where the mobility is not good. Gaining proper mobility can help injuries recover faster, prevent injuries and improve performance in some cases.
It depends on the athlete, the age, the weaknesses of the athlete, the past injuries, recovery, mobility, position, and the style in which the athlete plays the position.

The stripy strength and condition staff trains for those things too.
They know what they are doing.

 

[Boogs]

The stripy strength and condition staff trains for those things too.
They know what they are doing.

The strength coaches are getting better at the mobility aspect than they used to be. Some are better than others at correcting mobility. I can't really comment on how good the Pats staff is on this aspect. But if they are deficient in some things that Tom needs, obviously he will go to outside sources to get the help he needs for his workouts and mobility etc.

 

[Joey007]

Saying Tom Brady eats like a vegan would be like me saying I’m gay. Both are a complete lie.

That is exactly something a closet gay man would say.

 

[maust]

Eats like a vegan was short hand for his restrictive diet, not meant literally.

Wait...what?? Is that actually AJ defending himself by saying something wasn't meant to be taken literally???

Bwahahahahahaha, coming from someone that parses every phrase someone else turns in order to consistently create some of the most ridiculous logical fallacy based arguments I've seen online that is rich indeed.

 

[holyredeemer]

That is exactly something a closet gay man would say.

Yeah, I shouldn’t have posted what I did. It was insensitive. And I apologize if I offended anyone. The point I was trying to make with a side of cheap humor was that anyone attaching a label to someone, when it is an inaccurate one is absurd. I tired to match that with an absurd statement. /doh

 

[Ivan]

Rumors were that Guerrero was contradicting the training staff and trying to talk players out of lifting weights.

I think that’s where the disconnect happened. And it was more than a rumor, you can hear them trying to talk Edelman out of doing squats in Tom versus Time,

I think these guys have every right to use their own trainers to keep them healthy, but it has to be balanced with the team programs. I think Brady is the exception to that rule.

 

[luuked]

I realize that the sample size is very small at this time

This pretty much ends you entire argument right there. You are using an essentially infinitely small sample size against over what ? 40 years of his personal experience in the NFL ?

Also you are asking the wrong question. BB has had a perfect place for AG as a specialist for soft tissue injuries and he was even an unofficial member of the staff doing that. He respects his work when it comes to that area. What he had an issue with last year is someone overstepping their bounds and telling his players to stop listening to the strength and conditioning staff. The entire Guerrero situation is about the NFL equivalent of "chain of command" and not about his success or failures as a external health specialist. For that the sample size is too low to know anything.

That being said he is not inflexible by any means about health and modern approaches otherwise the team would have not invested a lot of money into e.g. those floatation beds and even shipped them to the SB venue.

Patriots keep up with floatation therapy throughout run to Super Bowl LI

But as any reasonably thinking person should BB seems to actually require scientific evidence (i.e. published articles that went through the effort of statistical testing) for bigger changes to occur.

Some people here use the completely anecdotal history of Brady and last season of Gronk as if it was not essentially totally statistically irrelevant. If Clowney hits Brady just a second earlier towards the end of the Texans game there is a good chance given Bradys posture that he would suffer a serious injury and be out. And then suddenly AGs "success rate" is down the drain. Lets not forget Edelman is also a AG customer but somehow still tore his ACL the same way any other non-contact ACL on any other team looked like.

 

[luuked]

I think that’s where the disconnect happened. And it was more than a rumor, you can hear them trying to talk Edelman out of doing squats in Tom versus Time,

I think these guys have every right to use their own trainers to keep them healthy, but it has to be balanced with the team programs. I think Brady is the exception to that rule.

Brady is only an exception because of his position. Which is why the entire theatre with Gronk happened in the first place. He looked like total garbage in training camp and it took him the first quarter of the season to get somewhat back to look like an average NFL TE and even longer to be himself. As we all know BB ripped him for going the AG route in one of the training camp post-mortem sessions for being as ineffective as he was and refusing to do the weight training work. Rightfully so.

As brutal as it sounds lets also not forget that a coach's immediate goals (i.e. having an effective player, winning games/titles) are not necessarily something that line up with the long-term health goals of players. Just look how the use of painkillers and whatnot was rampant through the league. It is the same with training methods. Just because AGs methods might make Gronk feel better than he ever did in terms of his back doesn't mean that they necessarily will make him a better player. Not doing the strength work might make him a less capable blocker which is exactly what BB mocked about him during camp. According to Perry and Curran he got regularly blown up in running drills when blocking to the point where he was on the floor most of the time.

 

[Joey007]

Yeah, I shouldn’t have posted what I did. It was insensitive. And I apologize if I offended anyone. The point I was trying to make with a side of cheap humor was that anyone attaching a label to someone, when it is an inaccurate one is absurd. I tired to match that with an absurd statement. /doh

That’s nice to say and all. But that didn’t answer the question on your closet status

 

[Tony2046]

*I posted something insensitive and apologize to anyone who may have read it and been offended.

I'm offended that you won't share what you thought offended someone. I thought we were brothers man. WTF?

 

[The Brandon Five]

I'm offended that you won't share what you thought offended someone. I thought we were brothers man. WTF?

I am offended that you were not offended by something that might have offended someone else. How dare you?

 

[holyredeemer]

That’s nice to say and all. But that didn’t answer the question on your closet status

Aw, my bad brother. You didn’t ask.

 

[Ivan]

Brady is only an exception because of his position. Which is why the entire theatre with Gronk happened in the first place. He looked like total garbage in training camp and it took him the first quarter of the season to get somewhat back to look like an average NFL TE and even longer to be himself. As we all know BB ripped him for going the AG route in one of the training camp post-mortem sessions for being as ineffective as he was and refusing to do the weight training work. Rightfully so.

As brutal as it sounds lets also not forget that a coach's immediate goals (i.e. having an effective player, winning games/titles) are not necessarily something that line up with the long-term health goals of players. Just look how the use of painkillers and whatnot was rampant through the league. It is the same with training methods. Just because AGs methods might make Gronk feel better than he ever did in terms of his back doesn't mean that they necessarily will make him a better player. Not doing the strength work might make him a less capable blocker which is exactly what BB mocked about him during camp. According to Perry and Curran he got regularly blown up in running drills when blocking to the point where he was on the floor most of the time.

I agree, especially that Brady’s position gives him the exception. And he’s proven his way is the right way for him