Rapoport: Patriots quietly bring in Lamar Jackson for Pre Draft Visit

[manxman2601]

Can any of those guys legitimately read a defense. Maybe mike Vick. The other 2... no

At least Jackson comes from a system based upon the same philosophy. That might give him a hands up.

 

[manxman2601]

Ben Volin hinted/speculated that McDaniels was runnng the QB project in a podcast I listened too whilst noting that he had been invisible during pro days.

 

[sircole]

At least Jackson comes from a system based upon the same philosophy. That might give him a hands up.

Mike White did too.

 

[rochrist]

It's not a video game and this isn't an RPG character. Jackson doesn't need to allocate limited skill points to develop his running ability. If the Patriots draft Lamar Jackson, they're not going to throw out their offense and start running the wishbone and the triple option, which is what a lot of people seem to imply with the "running quarterback" thing. He'll be a pocket passer, just like he was in college; he'll play similarly to Russell Wilson.

My point to the Flutie and Gannon examples was that there's no one profile for quarterbacks who play into their 40s. There's only a handful of these guys in league history and they're widely divergent in how they played football or what they were like coming into the NFL. Plenty of mobile quarterbacks entering the league like Gannon have reinvented themselves into traditional pocket passers as they got into their 30s. Eagles Vick was much less of a runner than Falcons Vick, and Vick played 15 years in the league. McCown's an interesting example because he was a proficient runner when he first came out and had 3 or 4 attempts per game when he was a starter in Arizona. He still had 3 rushing attempts per game last season in New York and scrambled well, scoring 5 rushing TDs.

There's running, and then there's running. Having that ability doesn't mean you have to turn into a RB at the first opportunity. What it can do though, is add immeasurably to a QBs escapability and his ability to extend plays. Half of Rogers' success is due to his being able to extend plays with his feet causing the defense to break down.

 

[manxman2601]

One thing I would say is that I can’t ever remember a Patriots pick being telegraphed like this Jackson one is. Maybe Harvey Langi but he was a UDFA ultimately. There was that Navy QB whose name escapes me, Su’a Cravens and Tyrann Matthieu that we’re heavily linked to the Pats pre-draft but of corse, they went elsewhere.

 

[VJCPatriot]

So the search for Steve Young begins? IE Montana->Young; Brady-> ???

 

[SHOWTIME15]

One thing I would say is that I can’t ever remember a Patriots pick being telegraphed like this Jackson one is. Maybe Harvey Langi but he was a UDFA ultimately. There was that Navy QB whose name escapes me, Su’a Cravens and Tyrann Matthieu that we’re heavily linked to the Pats pre-draft but of corse, they went elsewhere.

If the pats want him badly, they are going to have to trade ahead of Baltimore or Arizona who are looking QB as well.

 

[rochrist]

Rating doesn't tell you much. Brissett had a lower yards/attempt, threw for far fewer touchdowns, and took nearly twice as many sacks (one every 10 dropbacks). He also had a top-10 wide receiver in Hilton and a good tight end in Doyle to throw to, while Newton was stuck with Funchess and Byrd. McCaffrey was Newton's safety valve and his yards per attempt have sank from a league high in his MVP season as he's lost his downfield threats (Smith, LaFell, Ginn, etc.)

Newton does throw too many picks, and that hurts his QB rating. He's certainly not Brady as a passer, but that's not a fair comparison either because the number of passers who are Brady's level can be counted on one hand, maybe one finger. But it's worth noting that Cam's only 28 and Brady didn't turn into the all-world QB we know and love until his age 29-30 seasons, either. Note that Brady also had interception percentages around 3% until 2006 or so, as well, when he was a year older than Newton will be this year.

And 2017 Brady wouldn't have been 2017 Brady if he was throwing to the likes of Funchess and Byrd instead of Gronk and Cooks and Amendola, either. Supporting cast matters and, despite the insistence of Andy Johnson, the Panthers' skill position players have been wanting most of his career.

Eh. Brady's upsurge in performance at 29-30 had as much to do with the changing of the pass defense rules as it did changes in Brady.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

One thing I would say is that I can’t ever remember a Patriots pick being telegraphed like this Jackson one is. Maybe Harvey Langi but he was a UDFA ultimately. There was that Navy QB whose name escapes me, Su’a Cravens and Tyrann Matthieu that we’re heavily linked to the Pats pre-draft but of corse, they went elsewhere.

Keenan Reynolds out of Navy who ended up switching to Wr for the Ravens.

 

[manxman2601]

Keenan Reynolds out of Navy who ended up switching to Wr for the Ravens.

Thanks, I always get stuck on that name. I still think they may have drafted him until that trade forward with Seattle happened. Although the fact we didn’t sign him after he was cut may suggest otherwise.

 

[manxman2601]

If the pats want him badly, they are going to have to trade ahead of Baltimore or Arizona who are looking QB as well.

Arizona have been looking outside of the first round too like us (Lauletta etc). Baltimore could but this is Ozzie’s last draft isn’t it. Will he leave the Ravens with a QB or a final ‘Bama player

But of course, you could be right.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Thanks, I always get stuck on that name. I still think they may have drafted him until that trade forward with Seattle happened. Although the fact we didn’t sign him after he was cut may suggest otherwise.

Yeah he was a popular pick for a slot wr conversion due to his navy ties. We do need to look at slot wr this wkend. Berrios and trey Quinn would be my two faves personally

 

[manxman2601]

Yeah he was a popular pick for a slot wr conversion due to his navy ties. We do need to look at slot wr this wkend. Berrios and trey Quinn would be my two faves personally

I have a sneaky hunch for DaeSean Hamilton who could step into the Jordan Matthews role next year. Anthony Miller is another I love. If you get a chance, watch him block.

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

I have a sneaky hunch for DaeSean Hamilton who could step into the Jordan Matthews role next year. Anthony Miller is another I love. If you get a chance, watch him block.

I too like Hamilton. Guy looks like a chain mover. Miller haven’t studied him too much, his build looks similar to dj Moore, who I thinking is a Deion branch type comp

 

[Nunchucks]

I think there's a lot of arguing from the conclusion that happens when people evaluate work ethic at the NFL level. A few people can coast on talent but not very many, most of the athletes at the NFL are working their asses off all the time.

There's a tendency to ascribe success to hard work, which has a strong basis in fact, but then to also argue the reverse and assume that lack of success was due to lack of hard work, when that's far from the case. A guy like Josh McCown works his tail off to be average because that's the most his talent can do for him. Matt Cassell by all accounts was a workaholic and managed to leverage not much talent into a moderately successful career as an NFL journeyman.

I'm just saying, while hard work combined with talent can lead to elite performances, and hard work on its own will improve your skills no matter what level you're at, hard work alone is not a panacea if it's not matched with the ability to put a good suite of skills out there at the NFL level. Lots of guys worked hard and never got close to the pros.

Both Cassell and McCown have had to fight through a host of injuries that have derailed their careers.

 

[manxman2601]

I too like Hamilton. Guy looks like a chain mover. Miller haven’t studied him too much, his build looks similar to dj Moore, who I thinking is a Deion branch type comp

Funnily enough I haven’t watched Moore. When I watched Miller’s highlights I saw a slower Brandin Cooks but he’s a slot receiver type too. But it was his effort and blocking that really impressed me. One of the best blocking WRs I’ve seen. As for DaeSean, his character is supposed to be outstanding and Matt Harmon, the guy who does Reception Perception really likes him.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I too like Hamilton. Guy looks like a chain mover. Miller haven’t studied him too much, his build looks similar to dj Moore, who I thinking is a Deion branch type comp

Similar build/size. Miller is a tough s.o.b. hes a faster/quicker Landry imo. Very physical, tough player that can work the middle, seems & like manx said hes a legit blocking WR.

Moore btw is also excellent blocking. Hes younger & tested better than Ridley while putting up big time production with a acast of terrible QB's for years.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Can Jackson rush the passer??

If the pats want him badly, they are going to have to trade ahead of Baltimore or Arizona who are looking QB as well.

I don't think the ravens are taking a QB but who knows

 

[Ras-IR Dowling]

Similar build/size. Miller is a tough s.o.b. hes a faster/quicker Landry imo. Very physical, tough player that can work the middle, seems & like manx said hes a legit blocking WR.

Moore btw is also excellent blocking. Hes younger & tested better than Ridley while putting up big time production with a acast of terrible QB's for years.

Well then sign me up for miller r2. Moore has a shot to be the first wr off the board, possibly ravens 16 or cowboys 19. Better value for miller.

 

[Brandon_Cox]

Interesting Ringer article on qualities NFL gms should be looking at in quarterbacks (didn't see it posted)

Richner believes that though most of the keys to projecting quarterbacks lie in the numbers, traditional indicators like the ability to perform in a collapsing pocket, keeping your eyes up during a throw, and comfort with audibles are all still key components of the evaluation process. Richner’s biggest key, however, is completion percentage, particularly on third down, when passing windows are tightest—and that is where he differs greatly from many NFL evaluators. He believes Mayfield’s numbers resemble Drew Brees’s and that he’s well worth a high pick, and he also has USC’s Darnold as a first-round pick. He thinks Allen, he of the 56 percent completion rate, is not a prospect, and he believes that UCLA’s Rosen is “awful” because of the dip in his completion percentage from second to third down. He said the 12 percentage point dip is on par with Gabbert, Jimmy Clausen, and Locker. None of whom was … good. On the other side of the spectrum: Seattle’s Russell Wilson is the best collegiate passer on third down since 2009.

Will NFL Teams Ever Get Smarter About Drafting Quarterbacks?

here's another "uneducated" Ringer article which also addresses Jackson:

I keep seeing Jackson listed as the fifth-best quarterback in this draft class, after (in some order) Mayfield, Josh Allen, Sam Darnold, and Josh Rosen. I can’t imagine watching college football over the past few years and coming away thinking that Jackson is the fifth best of those players at anything.

If Mayfield is the QB who was best at distributing the ball to his teammates, Jackson was the best at scoring his damn self. Lacking a strong supporting cast, he became a one-man show for Louisville, tallying 51 total touchdowns en route to a runaway Heisman Trophy victory as a sophomore and adding a piddly 45 touchdowns as a junior. One of my favorite games from the past few seasons was Clemson’s 42-36 win over Louisville in 2016, a high-flying duel between Jackson and Deshaun Watson. They combined for 854 yards of total offense and eight touchdowns.

For some reason, NFL scouts seem to believe that a quarterback’s ability to run the football effectively amounts to evidence that said QB is not good at passing. Watson’s success as a rookie was a rebuke of that. And yet here we are: Jackson is a gifted passer, and a former NFL general manager went on TV to say that he should play receiver because he also happens to be fast.

Personally, I think it’s a bonus that Jackson can not only throw a football well—something few humans on the planet are capable of!—but also can hurdle people, dodge sprinting defenders with ease, and outrun anybody pesky enough to try to pressure him. Sometimes quarterbacks have to do those things—in fact, it can be a very useful part of modern NFL strategy!

Baker Mayfield Should Be the Top Pick in the 2018 Draft