Brady and Gronk - Do They Care About The Money Being Given?

[Tony2046]

His cap hit (not total money) is usually around $15M. This year and next it's sitting at $22M.

To put that into perspective Tom is the 12th highest paid QB in the league at this point. Positional Spending | Over the Cap



He was the 13th highest paid in 2014:



He was 16th in 2015


He was 18th in 2016


20th last year

 

[patfanken]

Just going by what's posted on OTC:

Tom Brady Contract Details, Salary Cap Charges, Bonus Money | Over The Cap

If I read this correctly, one of the key things I get from his current contract and what everyone in the media has missed is that Brady got $40MM up front on this current deal, and THAT is why his salary and cap numbers have been so low up to now.

He has NEVER taken short money to play for the Pats, but he's never demanded a Manning contract either. Like I have said on a number of occasions. Up to last season no QB put more actual money in the bank than Tom Brady. (reportedly Rodgers just passed him in 2017). Just like Deflategate is a myth that some people believe anyway, the myth that Brady has taken a lot less to play for the Pats is also a myth that EVERYBODY still believes

As for the OP -

Cut the crap that Gronk is "criminally underpaid". The Pats volunteered to pay him MILLIONS more. And this isn't the first time. They took the shot and tore up his rookie deal LONG before it came due. And let's not forget that these mediots ALWAYS think their binkies are being underpaid. Why wouldn't they? Most of their sources are the player's agents. Gronk is the top TE in the league and the Pats are paying him like it.

And just another thought on Gronk. If you are "thinking" about retirement, then you are well on the way to retirement. I wouldn't invest more than a year or two on Gronk at this point. In fact, I think they can squeeze another great year out of him, but I'd be looking to move on from him after this season. He might not be close to done physically, but he IS mentally.

As for Brady, like I said, he has nothing to b!tch about what the Pats have paid him over the years, and the fact is he never has. Again its the media pukes who are stirring the fire with all their speculation that "something is wrong with the Patriot Way"

 

[supafly]

Gronk is the top TE in the league and the Pats are paying him like it.

That depends on whether or not you feel that he’s getting paid like the top receivers are, or at least something in the middle of a WR and TE, which is almost certainly how he feels. It’s kind of similar to the Le’Veon Bell argument, just not to the same extreme or the same arrogant, childish and demanding nature (yet). You don’t feel as if Gronk can change a game like say, Jarvis Landry (16m), Sammy Watkins (16m), or Dez Bryant (12.5m)?

They made it right last year by adding in some extra money via incentives. They can make it right again if they want to. Even Belichick can be flexible with once in a generation type of players if he wishes to be. Gronkowski is a dominant force and is on his way to potentially being the best TE to ever play the game if he can go another several years. He’s battled through some terrible surgeries and long term rehabs to work hard and produce. While I agree with you that he should shut up and honor his current pact, it’s not difficult to see why he may consider leaving the game, especially if he’s getting pushback about his training methods and what he can do to try and stay on the field and produce.

The same goes for Brady, and probably to an even greater degree. The fact that he’s holed up in some upper level suite and has to put up makeshift blinds for fear of privacy just to try and play through significant injuries is stupid. Whether he’s right or not about the training methods it will still be seen as a sign of disrespect. For all he’s done for the organization, they should consider naming the damn stadium after him (not literally). Instead, he appears to feel like he’s being treated like a second class citizen. Right or wrong, I can see their points, and while Belichick’s shrewd ways have helped to shape this team, he’d simply be cutting off his nose to spite his face at this point. They need to make it right, stay together for another handful of years, and ride off into the sunset as the greatest at their positions (coach, QB, TE), which would basically be a given with one more SB. Now is not the time for Belichick to get into a pissing match, especially at this point of his career. He doesn’t need to prove his “toughness” or Parcells-like ways at this stage of the game.

 

[maineman209]

If I read this correctly, one of the key things I get from his current contract and what everyone in the media has missed is that Brady got $40MM up front on this current deal, and THAT is why his salary and cap numbers have been so low up to now.

He has NEVER taken short money to play for the Pats, but he's never demanded a Manning contract either. Like I have said on a number of occasions. Up to last season no QB put more actual money in the bank than Tom Brady. (reportedly Rodgers just passed him in 2017). Just like Deflategate is a myth that some people believe anyway, the myth that Brady has taken a lot less to play for the Pats is also a myth that EVERYBODY still believes

As for the OP -

Cut the crap that Gronk is "criminally underpaid". The Pats volunteered to pay him MILLIONS more. And this isn't the first time. They took the shot and tore up his rookie deal LONG before it came due. And let's not forget that these mediots ALWAYS think their binkies are being underpaid. Why wouldn't they? Most of their sources are the player's agents. Gronk is the top TE in the league and the Pats are paying him like it.

And just another thought on Gronk. If you are "thinking" about retirement, then you are well on the way to retirement. I wouldn't invest more than a year or two on Gronk at this point. In fact, I think they can squeeze another great year out of him, but I'd be looking to move on from him after this season. He might not be close to done physically, but he IS mentally.

As for Brady, like I said, he has nothing to b!tch about what the Pats have paid him over the years, and the fact is he never has. Again its the media pukes who are stirring the fire with all their speculation that "something is wrong with the Patriot Way"

Agree about Brady, 100%.

WRT Gronk ...

When he was given the 6-year extension to his rookie deal way back in 2012 (after only 2 years in the league), it was considered to be HUGE, and not just for a TE. At the time, many top WRs hadn't gotten that much on their second contracts. IOW, beginning in 2014, he would be getting paid like a top WR.

It's not difficult to imagine that this was at least part of the impetus for Jimmy Graham's suit to be reclassified as a WR for Franchise Tag purposes. Ironically, while the NFL denied Graham's demand back in the summer of 2014, since then, it's become fairly clear that many newer "receiving TEs" are TEs in name only because they don't really block much, if at all.

Anyway, even though the Pats have adjusted Gronk's extension recently, in the interim, WR contracts have skyrocketed past his pay rate, and not just for the top guys.

Gronk's average receiving production for the past four seasons (in spite of missing half of the 2016 season) is significantly greater than WRs who have been getting contracts in the $13M-$16M APY range with $14M-$30M guaranteed. Gronk's APY for the final two years of his (now) six-year-old deal is $11.5M, and he has no new guaranteed money coming.

The Pats have already sort of acknowledged this with the $5.5M in new incentive bonuses they added for last season. While he fell just short on the statistical production requirements (he missed two games and wasn't targeted in another), he earned the maximum by being named to the Pro Bowl first team and bumped his 2017 cash payout to ~$12M. But then, too, in spite of missing the time (and the statistical incentives), he still finished the regular season ranked ..

8th - receiving yards per game
8th (t) - receiving TDs
8th (t) - number of 20yd+ receptions
9th - receiving 1st downs
10th - total receiving yds
12th - yards/catch

These rankings (and higher) have been typical for Gronk in a "healthy" season. And, had Gronk actually achieved his statistical incentives, he'd have been ranked 5th or 6th in most of these receiving production categories.

So, while the notion that he's "criminally underpaid" is a ludicrous exaggeration, a fairly reasonable argument can be made that he's not being paid at a market rate commensurate with his receiving production (not to mention the value he adds as a real blocker who elevates the ground game - something the WRs who are getting paid far more can't offer). Taking the emotion out of it, then, an extension-restructure that provides $15M in new guaranteed money and that increases his APY from $11.5M to $14M doesn't seem at all out of line.

And that pay rate would still only be equivalent to that of the 12th-highest-paid WR.

 

[Jackson 2]

Brady and Gronk don't care about money as much as having a stress free
work environment.

No such "work" environment exists.

 

[mgteich]

Q1) Do the patriots want to extend Brady and/or Gronkowski?

Q2) Given the CURRENT cap environment, what are the patriots willing to pay on a NEW contract.

We are not discussing restructures which move money within a contract to have lower caps up front and lower caps in the future.

IMO, it is reasonable for Brady to expect $50M more money for a 2 year extension.

With regard to Gronk, I just don't know what Belichick is willing to do; and I don't know what's reasonable.

 

[Jimke]

You just said he only deserves a moderate salary with performance bonuses.

Why you think there is a 20 mill dead money in 4 or 5 years I don’t know but how you think no brady is better than that worst case boggles my mind.

My position is brady is the best QB in the nfl and if you need to pay him like it, you do it.

Tom Brady should be receiving the highest salary in the NFL because he is its best
player. He has been willing to play at a cut rate because he enjoys winning more
than making tons of money. Like General Custer's soldiers, he likes riding to glory.
Don't expect any more concessions from him; however, because he has to be very
upset at the current state of affairs. An unhappy Gronk, the loss of many old friends
to free agency, and especially the failure to provide him with pass protectors.

 

[Soliel]

Why not just toss gronk like ten million in bonus money or something? In a way that doesn’t go on the cap. If it was possible, I’d try to reduce his hit for this year, pay him X amount of money up front and then take away his damn phone privileges

 

[patfanken]

That depends on whether or not you feel that he’s getting paid like the top receivers are, or at least something in the middle of a WR and TE, which is almost certainly how he feels. It’s kind of similar to the Le’Veon Bell argument, just not to the same extreme or the same arrogant, childish and demanding nature (yet). You don’t feel as if Gronk can change a game like say, Jarvis Landry (16m), Sammy Watkins (16m), or Dez Bryant (12.5m)?

They made it right last year by adding in some extra money via incentives. They can make it right again if they want to. Even Belichick can be flexible with once in a generation type of players if he wishes to be. Gronkowski is a dominant force and is on his way to potentially being the best TE to ever play the game if he can go another several years. He’s battled through some terrible surgeries and long term rehabs to work hard and produce. While I agree with you that he should shut up and honor his current pact, it’s not difficult to see why he may consider leaving the game, especially if he’s getting pushback about his training methods and what he can do to try and stay on the field and produce.

The same goes for Brady, and probably to an even greater degree. The fact that he’s holed up in some upper level suite and has to put up makeshift blinds for fear of privacy just to try and play through significant injuries is stupid. Whether he’s right or not about the training methods it will still be seen as a sign of disrespect. For all he’s done for the organization, they should consider naming the damn stadium after him (not literally). Instead, he appears to feel like he’s being treated like a second class citizen. Right or wrong, I can see their points, and while Belichick’s shrewd ways have helped to shape this team, he’d simply be cutting off his nose to spite his face at this point. They need to make it right, stay together for another handful of years, and ride off into the sunset as the greatest at their positions (coach, QB, TE), which would basically be a given with one more SB. Now is not the time for Belichick to get into a pissing match, especially at this point of his career. He doesn’t need to prove his “toughness” or Parcells-like ways at this stage of the game.

While I don't disagree with your opinion that Brady and Gronk COULD have a reason to be upset with the organization, that doesn't necessarily mean that they ARE upset. Nor does it mitigate the media's contention that the speculation is now reported as fact.

I still question Brady's supposed discomfort. Do you really think he's the kind of guy at 40 who would be pissed that he didn't get the "player of the week" t-shirt? What in his past would make you think he'd be that small. And what would make you think that he'd get pissed at being yelled at during practice when over his entire career he has shown that he has relished being coached hard. The one thing we KNOW about Brady is that he gets the concept that Coaches coach, and players play. He both understands and respects that critical dynamic. Sure he wants HIS input into the process to be respected and clearly, it is. (as we have seen from any of the "behind the scenes" looks at the Pats from "Do your Job" to "Tom vs Time") So to me, this whole, "Brady is pissed" narrative is just blue smoke and mirrors.

Your Gronk premise COULD be more likely to be true, since his situation is different from Brady. It's not just Gronk the individual, it's Gronk INC. that you have to deal with. While Gronk himself might not have an issue with his contract, I don't doubt there are members of his vast entourage who have bought into the mediot narrative that $12MM/yr isn't enough, and he should have to "earn it" to get it. Besides I don't think the Pats have the cap flexibility to give him another 4 or 5MM per year.

My biggest worry about Gronk isn't about his contract. Like I said if he was really contemplating retirement this offseason, then I believe he already has one foot out the door mentally. I believe they can still get a great year or two out of him, but his outside interests might be getting so broad, that they will erode his focus and start to diminish his effectiveness.

Again this is all just my opinion.

 

[Ring 6]

Tom Brady should be receiving the highest salary in the NFL because he is its best
player. He has been willing to play at a cut rate because he enjoys winning more
than making tons of money. Like General Custer's soldiers, he likes riding to glory.
Don't expect any more concessions from him; however, because he has to be very
upset at the current state of affairs. An unhappy Gronk, the loss of many old friends
to free agency, and especially the failure to provide him with pass protectors.

He is upset at the state of affairs that has had him in the Sb 3 of the last 4 years and to at least the afccg 7 years in a row?

When did he tell you this?

 

[patfanken]

Agree about Brady, 100%.

WRT Gronk ...

When he was given the 6-year extension to his rookie deal way back in 2012 (after only 2 years in the league), it was considered to be HUGE, and not just for a TE. At the time, many top WRs hadn't gotten that much on their second contracts. IOW, beginning in 2014, he would be getting paid like a top WR.

It's not difficult to imagine that this was at least part of the impetus for Jimmy Graham's suit to be reclassified as a WR for Franchise Tag purposes. Ironically, while the NFL denied Graham's demand back in the summer of 2014, since then, it's become fairly clear that many newer "receiving TEs" are TEs in name only because they don't really block much, if at all.

Anyway, even though the Pats have adjusted Gronk's extension recently, in the interim, WR contracts have skyrocketed past his pay rate, and not just for the top guys.

Gronk's average receiving production for the past four seasons (in spite of missing half of the 2016 season) is significantly greater than WRs who have been getting contracts in the $13M-$16M APY range with $14M-$30M guaranteed. Gronk's APY for the final two years of his (now) six-year-old deal is $11.5M, and he has no new guaranteed money coming.

The Pats have already sort of acknowledged this with the $5.5M in new incentive bonuses they added for last season. While he fell just short on the statistical production requirements (he missed two games and wasn't targeted in another), he earned the maximum by being named to the Pro Bowl first team and bumped his 2017 cash payout to ~$12M. But then, too, in spite of missing the time (and the statistical incentives), he still finished the regular season ranked ..

8th - receiving yards per game
8th (t) - receiving TDs
8th (t) - number of 20yd+ receptions
9th - receiving 1st downs
10th - total receiving yds
12th - yards/catch

These rankings (and higher) have been typical for Gronk in a "healthy" season. And, had Gronk actually achieved his statistical incentives, he'd have been ranked 5th or 6th in most of these receiving production categories.

So, while the notion that he's "criminally underpaid" is a ludicrous exaggeration, a fairly reasonable argument can be made that he's not being paid at a market rate commensurate with his receiving production (not to mention the value he adds as a real blocker who elevates the ground game - something the WRs who are getting paid far more can't offer). Taking the emotion out of it, then, an extension-restructure that provides $15M in new guaranteed money and that increases his APY from $11.5M to $14M doesn't seem at all out of line.

And that pay rate would still only be equivalent to that of the 12th-highest-paid WR.

Nothing I disagree with on the surface, MM, except I have no clue what WRT and IOW mean.

Like I said to Sup, dealing with Gronk is different than Brady since it's not like you are dealing with an individual, but rather the entire entourage of Gronk Inc. So I'm sure most of this mediot narrative is coming, not from Gronk, but one of his minions. And again, the NARRATIVE as you lay it out is not absurd, its just not the big deal everyone seems to make it. There are a number of players who could make statistical cases that they are "underpaid", and if everyone got their wishes the Pats, as well as every other team in the league, would have to go way over the cap to satisfy everyone. As it is with the latest flurry of activity, I would guess the Pats are going to have just around $10MM left in cap room and that's not counting what they need to pay the draftees.

I also don't discount the possibility that the whole narrative is just being used as an excuse so he doesn't have to show up for much of the voluntary offseason stuff in April and May. This isn't something that is unusual across the league.

 

[Ivan]

No such "work" environment exists.

Yes it does.

 

[Ring 6]

If I read this correctly, one of the key things I get from his current contract and what everyone in the media has missed is that Brady got $40MM up front on this current deal, and THAT is why his salary and cap numbers have been so low up to now.

40 mill is included in the cap number not in addition

He has NEVER taken short money to play for the Pats, but he's never demanded a Manning contract either. Like I have said on a number of occasions. Up to last season no QB put more actual money in the bank than Tom Brady. (reportedly Rodgers just passed him in 2017). Just like Deflategate is a myth that some people believe anyway, the myth that Brady has taken a lot less to play for the Pats is also a myth that EVERYBODY still believes

Aaron Rodgers has been a starter for 10 years, brady for 17. If Rodgers passed him brady has been taking a ton less.
Look at the list above he is paid the middle of the pack and he is the GOAT.

As for the OP -

Cut the crap that Gronk is "criminally underpaid". The Pats volunteered to pay him MILLIONS more. And this isn't the first time. They took the shot and tore up his rookie deal LONG before it came due. And let's not forget that these mediots ALWAYS think their binkies are being underpaid. Why wouldn't they? Most of their sources are the player's agents. Gronk is the top TE in the league and the Pats are paying him like it.

And just another thought on Gronk. If you are "thinking" about retirement, then you are well on the way to retirement. I wouldn't invest more than a year or two on Gronk at this point. In fact, I think they can squeeze another great year out of him, but I'd be looking to move on from him after this season. He might not be close to done physically, but he IS mentally.

As for Brady, like I said, he has nothing to b!tch about what the Pats have paid him over the years, and the fact is he never has. Again its the media pukes who are stirring the fire with all their speculation that "something is wrong with the Patriot Way"

Brady has WILLINGLY taken less for many years. So no he has nothing to ***** about.

 

[supafly]

I don't doubt there are members of his vast entourage who have bought into the mediot narrative that $12MM/yr isn't enough, and he should have to "earn it" to get it. Besides I don't think the Pats have the cap flexibility to give him another 4 or 5MM per year.

I’m not sure where you’re getting the 12m dollar figure from, but Gronkowski is scheduled to make 9m dollars this year. That’s a big difference.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

I doubt Brady cares about money at this point in his career. Just championships. I have no clue about Gronk.

Tommy just wants to be appreciated and have fun.

 

[Ring 6]

Agree about Brady, 100%.

WRT Gronk ...

When he was given the 6-year extension to his rookie deal way back in 2012 (after only 2 years in the league), it was considered to be HUGE, and not just for a TE. At the time, many top WRs hadn't gotten that much on their second contracts. IOW, beginning in 2014, he would be getting paid like a top WR.

It's not difficult to imagine that this was at least part of the impetus for Jimmy Graham's suit to be reclassified as a WR for Franchise Tag purposes. Ironically, while the NFL denied Graham's demand back in the summer of 2014, since then, it's become fairly clear that many newer "receiving TEs" are TEs in name only because they don't really block much, if at all.

Anyway, even though the Pats have adjusted Gronk's extension recently, in the interim, WR contracts have skyrocketed past his pay rate, and not just for the top guys.

Gronk's average receiving production for the past four seasons (in spite of missing half of the 2016 season) is significantly greater than WRs who have been getting contracts in the $13M-$16M APY range with $14M-$30M guaranteed. Gronk's APY for the final two years of his (now) six-year-old deal is $11.5M, and he has no new guaranteed money coming.

The Pats have already sort of acknowledged this with the $5.5M in new incentive bonuses they added for last season. While he fell just short on the statistical production requirements (he missed two games and wasn't targeted in another), he earned the maximum by being named to the Pro Bowl first team and bumped his 2017 cash payout to ~$12M. But then, too, in spite of missing the time (and the statistical incentives), he still finished the regular season ranked ..

8th - receiving yards per game
8th (t) - receiving TDs
8th (t) - number of 20yd+ receptions
9th - receiving 1st downs
10th - total receiving yds
12th - yards/catch

These rankings (and higher) have been typical for Gronk in a "healthy" season. And, had Gronk actually achieved his statistical incentives, he'd have been ranked 5th or 6th in most of these receiving production categories.

So, while the notion that he's "criminally underpaid" is a ludicrous exaggeration, a fairly reasonable argument can be made that he's not being paid at a market rate commensurate with his receiving production (not to mention the value he adds as a real blocker who elevates the ground game - something the WRs who are getting paid far more can't offer). Taking the emotion out of it, then, an extension-restructure that provides $15M in new guaranteed money and that increases his APY from $11.5M to $14M doesn't seem at all out of line.

And that pay rate would still only be equivalent to that of the 12th-highest-paid WR.

Didn’t Gronk sign the contract?
Didn’t the patriots unprecedentedly give him a raise during it?

 

[patfanken]

I’m not sure where you’re getting the 12m dollar figure from, but Gronkowski is scheduled to make 9m dollars this year. That’s a big difference.

Does that include makable incentives or is it $9MM base plus incentives?

 

[Observer]

I doubt Brady cares about money at this point in his career. Just championships. I have no clue about Gronk.

Given the way that the championship was lost last year, I bet he cares about the money.

 

[patfanken]

40 mill is included in the cap number not in addition

Oh I agree. I just pointed out that he got $4oMM up FRONT, which is a point that most mediots fail to either understand or acknowledge

Rodgers has been a starter for 10 years, brady for 17. If Rodgers passed him brady has been taking a ton less.
Look at the list above he is paid the middle of the pack and he is the GOAT.

Sorry I didn't articulate my point well. The stat I saw, which was back in 2016, covered just the previous 4 or 5 years and mentioned that Rodgers would surpass Brady in 2017, but it was an apples to apples comparison covering the same time frame

Brady has WILLINGLY taken less for many years. So no, he has nothing to ***** about.

EVERYONE should be agreeing with this point. And for this reason alone, there should be no reason for the "Brady is pissed about his contract" narrative to ever exist....except as an attention grabber.

The whole "the Pats are doomed because their 2 best players hate their coach" narrative is just another reworked version of the old "they hate their coach" line from 2003. It certainly creates interest, but I doubt the substance behind it.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

TB12 is very passive agressive lately.

I don't know what they hell he wants.

It's just possible that he doesn't know either.