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Out of curiosity: how much are our 1st and 2nd round picks worth in trade value?

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Don’t disagree that it’d be a great value, but we’re a team doesn’t have a huge window left.

This was something that was good for us to do back in 2009-2011 when we were rebuilding the roster.

Patriots biggest needs on defense:

Interior DL run-stopper
On-the-line edge defender
Off-the-line edge defender
ILB tackling machine
SS/LB hybrid who can cover the middle and the slot and tackle like a good ILB
As shown, I think there are plenty of positions available for restocking the pond, and this list doesn’t even include the prospect of CB, which was the consensus position drafted in the 1st round by many mocks.

So, that’s 6 right there on defense, and that’s not even bringing up any offensive positions (QB, RB, OT, TE). I certainly wouldn’t mind the potential to trade down and have 6 picks in the top 100 selections (and hope that 3-4 actually hit).
 
As shown, I think there are plenty of positions available for restocking the pond, and this list doesn’t even include the prospect of CB, which was the consensus position drafted in the 1st round by many mocks.

So, that’s 6 right there on defense, and that’s not even bringing up any offensive positions (QB, RB, OT, TE). I certainly wouldn’t mind the potential to trade down and have 6 picks in the top 100 selections (and hope that 3-4 actually hit).

I really don't pay much attention to mock drafts. They tend to be simplistic in their analysis of the Pats' positional needs. "The Pats desperately need a premier pass-rusher!" They often focus on a player that the Pats have lost, or are likely to lose, in free agency and instantly mock a player at that same postion a going to the Pats early.

First, the Pats' coverage schemes appear to be placing more emphasis on the safeties in the default 5 DB alignment. It was taken to an extreme in 2017 due to the loack of healthy, quality bodies at LB, but it was evident even in 2016.

From that perspective, the Pats curently have one excellent, relatively young CB, and two who seem pretty good who are both even younger (plus a guy coming back from IR, PLUS a potentially re-signable UFA special teamer who played well in 2017 as an emergeny starter for three games). Meanwhile, the Pats two long-time mainstay, template safeties both turn 31 in 2018 Camp. They have a third who's pretty good and relatively young, and, as far as we know, no one else who should see the field except perhaps on ST.

Since draft class quality depth at CB is virtually always much deeper than at safety, I'd guess that, if BB is going to draft a DB at all at #31 or #43, is more likely to be another safety than CB, though perhaps followed up with a CB in the 3rd or 4th rounds. Of course, this doesn't preclude the possible selection of a CB (or even an "LB-lite") who's had fairly extensive college experience playing a safety-ish role. The role in the scheme, and a specific prospect's potential to fit the role, are more important than the positional designation.

Then, too, the Pats have gotten by fairly well in recent years with a succession of UDFAs in a critical CB role - Arrington -> Butler -> Jon Jones (?).

Anyway, as always, we need to see what roles/holes are filled in FA first.

BTW - my latest wild-*** predictions are that the Pats re-sign Jonathan Casillas to help cover a lack of capable bodies at LB, and sign Frank Gore at vet-minimum for insurance at RB.
 
This will be an interesting year for the Pats and the draft, last year they traded #1 for Cooks.. some say it was a great move, others less so.. so we wound up with four draftees #83, #85, # 131 and #211.... only one dressed for the SB..

So am not sure that BB will rely solely on drafting players, as he might use picks to trade for players he views as a fit for this team..

What we all know is to expect the unexpected and while other fans think about who their team will draft, we have learned to think about what BB will do with the draft pick .. I do suspect big changes and lots of wheeling and dealing.
 
This will be an interesting year for the Pats and the draft, last year they traded #1 for Cooks.. some say it was a great move, others less so.. so we wound up with four draftees #83, #85, # 131 and #211.... only one dressed for the SB..

So am not sure that BB will rely solely on drafting players, as he might use picks to trade for players he views as a fit for this team..

What we all know is to expect the unexpected and while other fans think about who their team will draft, we have learned to think about what BB will do with the draft pick .. I do suspect big changes and lots of wheeling and dealing.

And we who are so wise to BB's ways and so sanguine about current teams needs will have to crawl into a hole when BB takes a WR at #31, and RB at #43, a QB at #63 and a TE at #136, leaving only the #95 and the 6th-rounder to be spent on defense.

 
I really don't pay much attention to mock drafts. They tend to be simplistic in their analysis of the Pats' positional needs. "The Pats desperately need a premier pass-rusher!" They often focus on a player that the Pats have lost, or are likely to lose, in free agency and instantly mock a player at that same postion a going to the Pats early.

First, the Pats' coverage schemes appear to be placing more emphasis on the safeties in the default 5 DB alignment. It was taken to an extreme in 2017 due to the loack of healthy, quality bodies at LB, but it was evident even in 2016.

From that perspective, the Pats curently have one excellent, relatively young CB, and two who seem pretty good who are both even younger (plus a guy coming back from IR, PLUS a potentially re-signable UFA special teamer who played well in 2017 as an emergeny starter for three games). Meanwhile, the Pats two long-time mainstay, template safeties both turn 31 in 2018 Camp. They have a third who's pretty good and relatively young, and, as far as we know, no one else who should see the field except perhaps on ST.

Since draft class quality depth at CB is virtually always much deeper than at safety, I'd guess that, if BB is going to draft a DB at all at #31 or #43, is more likely to be another safety than CB, though perhaps followed up with a CB in the 3rd or 4th rounds. Of course, this doesn't preclude the possible selection of a CB (or even an "LB-lite") who's had fairly extensive college experience playing a safety-ish role. The role in the scheme, and a specific prospect's potential to fit the role, are more important than the positional designation.

Then, too, the Pats have gotten by fairly well in recent years with a succession of UDFAs in a critical CB role - Arrington -> Butler -> Jon Jones (?).

Anyway, as always, we need to see what roles/holes are filled in FA first.

BTW - my latest wild-*** predictions are that the Pats re-sign Jonathan Casillas to help cover a lack of capable bodies at LB, and sign Frank Gore at vet-minimum for insurance at RB.

If they sign Frank Gore I’ll turn them off for the season.

Hyperbole?

Yes

But they might as well bring back Steven Jackson. Gore is awful. Completely done. I would rather see them get the ball to Bolden 40 tines a game.
 
If anything, this is likely going to be the year of the trade down. We have a relatively high second round pick and the depth at the quarterback position will likely force a run there which should push some quality talent at positions of need down.
 
If they sign Frank Gore I’ll turn them off for the season.

Hyperbole?

Yes

But they might as well bring back Steven Jackson. Gore is awful. Completely done. I would rather see them get the ball to Bolden 40 tines a game.

Gore ...

2015: 16 starts .. 260/967, 6 TDs rushing .. 34/58 for 267, 1 TD receiving
2016: 16 starts .. 263/1025, 4 TDs rushing .. 38/47 for 277, 4 TDs receiving
2017: 16 starts .. 261/961, 3 TDs rushing .. 29/38 for 245, 1 TD receiving

All of the above with a mediocre (or worse) OL, and with Matt Hasslebeck, Josh Freeman, Scott Tolzien and Jacoby Brissett as his starting QB for 26 of those 48 games. Awful? That record beats the crap out of what a lot of RBs have accomplished over the past three seasons.

Anyway, I'm not recommending that the Pats sign him as their starting RB for the 2018 season. I'm suggesting that they might sign him as a $900k insurance policy for the off-season and Camp.

That's not hyperbole.
 
Gore ...

2015: 16 starts .. 260/967, 6 TDs rushing .. 34/58 for 267, 1 TD receiving
2016: 16 starts .. 263/1025, 4 TDs rushing .. 38/47 for 277, 4 TDs receiving
2017: 16 starts .. 261/961, 3 TDs rushing .. 29/38 for 245, 1 TD receiving

All of the above with a mediocre (or worse) OL, and with Matt Hasslebeck, Josh Freeman, Scott Tolzien and Jacoby Brissett as his starting QB for 26 of those 48 games. Awful? That record beats the crap out of what a lot of RBs have accomplished over the past three seasons.

Anyway, I'm not recommending that the Pats sign him as their starting RB for the 2018 season. I'm suggesting that they might sign him as a $900k insurance policy for the off-season and Camp.

That's not hyperbole.

He’s another old, broken down mediocre player that I just don’t want them wasting a roster spot on. Give the spot to a younger, more athletic, and more promising back. I want them to release Gillislee but I would still rather have him than Gore.
 
He’s another old, broken down mediocre player that I just don’t want them wasting a roster spot on. Give the spot to a younger, more athletic, and more promising back. I want them to release Gillislee but I would still rather have him than Gore.

Doesn't make sense to me from a roster-building perspective, but okey-dokey.
 
Doesn't make sense to me from a roster-building perspective, but okey-dokey.

I don’t want players on their last legs to “ build the roster,” especially at skill positions. Frank Gore was done when he went to Indy, and he’s completely done now. RB, in particular, is a position where you can find young players to build with. I have less opposition to bringing in veterans at DT or OL, as you can still squeeze play out of them, but I prefer younger more athletic players at skill positions. Amendola is an outlier in this regard as he is an older player but his skill set has been crucial to them, and letting him go while Edelman is in recovery would be a dumb move. I would try to get a two year deal with him done, and I would guarantee as much as possible to get that done.
 
I don’t want players on their last legs to “ build the roster,” especially at skill positions. Frank Gore was done when he went to Indy, and he’s completely done now. RB, in particular, is a position where you can find young players to build with. I have less opposition to bringing in veterans at DT or OL, as you can still squeeze play out of them, but I prefer younger more athletic players at skill positions. Amendola is an outlier in this regard as he is an older player but his skill set has been crucial to them, and letting him go while Edelman is in recovery would be a dumb move. I would try to get a two year deal with him done, and I would guarantee as much as possible to get that done.

Again, it's the 90-man, off-season/Camp-competition roster and "insurance" that I'm concerned with here, NOT the final 53-man, regular season roster.

And how is it that Gore was able to play in every game for the past three seasons and put up those stats on a crappy offense if he was "done"?

Sure, a team can find young RBs to build with, just as I can win a $2 consolation prize in the Lotto. But there's no guarantee for either. Veteran "insurance" signings are the backstop for failing to find that young RB.

Sorry, maybe I'm terminally dense, but I'm just not seeing anything rational in your argument.
 
I'm not sure what to think about quantity x quality. Bill doesn't work with the concept of rebuild like other teams do, he is always rebuilding on the fly.

He also (I think) doesn't work with the concept of window so I don't expect any draft decision based on timing, history shows he never did that even though it seems like last year he kind of made a huge bet on that direction, and it didn't pay off. So I'm not sure he will "chase the money" this year.

That said, rebuildings and windows aside, I think this team is on the verge of a deep rebuilding, like the classic definition of rebuild not the year to year thing. More like that transition after 2009-2011 because the core of the team is on their last legs. McCourthy, Chung, Ninkovich, Edelman, Solder, even Gronk. I'm not sure what to say about Brady, I think he will keep playing anyway there's a need for the next heir.

I think BB will trade down our 1st round pick, we have few draft picks again and there's really a need to draft the next generation of players. I don't think we made steps on that direction last draft.
 
Again, it's the 90-man, off-season/Camp-competition roster and "insurance" that I'm concerned with here, NOT the final 53-man, regular season roster.

And how is it that Gore was able to play in every game for the past three seasons and put up those stats on a crappy offense if he was "done"?

Sure, a team can find young RBs to build with, just as I can win a $2 consolation prize in the Lotto. But there's no guarantee for either. Veteran "insurance" signings are the backstop for failing to find that young RB.

Sorry, maybe I'm terminally dense, but I'm just not seeing anything rational in your argument.

That’s because you like these player’s, I don’t, I don’t want them on the team, period. And in Gore’s case you said to let Lewis and Burkhead go and sign Gore, that doesn’t sound like an “ end of the roster” move.

Like anyone else there are player’s I like and don’t like, and I want players I like and want to see on the team, and those people don’t like not getting those spots.
 
Out of curiosity: how much are our 1st and 2nd round picks worth ?


Cooks and a guy that was cut before the season started
 
Don’t disagree that it’d be a great value, but we’re a team doesn’t have a huge window left.

This was something that was good for us to do back in 2009-2011 when we were rebuilding the roster.

Brady doesn't have much of a window left.

The Patriots literally reject the notion of a team window in their mission statement.
 
Out of curiosity: how much are our 1st and 2nd round picks worth ?


Cooks and a guy that was cut before the season started

Oh, FFS, how many times does it need to be said?

The Patriots traded #64 for Kony Ealy and #72.

So they traded it for Kony Ealy and Derek Rivers (and some extra change).
 
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