Shock night might not be over: Butler rumours

[Ring 6]

You're also conveniently overlooking the value of obtaining a guy mid season vs. pre season.

We are talking about a guy you expect to be your franchise qb (if you are offering something more than a high 2nd and hoyer)
You don’t offer a first or more for a full first season, get rejected then at mid season say no thanks trade him somewhere else we wanted him for the first 8 games this year.

The same would go for Butler if we offered him in a trade. I think it's just common sense that a team would value Butler more if they had him for the full year (including training camp) as opposed to half the season.

100% different. Butler would go to a contender and is a trade for now not the future.

 

[brdmaverick]

You are going to take comments on this board as a source of evaluation?

So everyone was wrong to criticize Jimmy's preseason? just pointing out that if that was a consensus opinion there's a good chance there is something to it.

 

[RobertWeathers]

As I think about it, trading Jimmy G. is one thing, as (God forbid) unless Brady goes down it doesn't really impact the team, but trading Butler at this point, particularly where Gilmore has been hurt and not up to speed yet anyway, would be like giving up on this season. I don't see BB doing that.

Agree in general but I do think if some team offered BB a #1 for Malcolm he'd really have to think that one long and hard...

 

[brdmaverick]

We are talking about a guy you expect to be your franchise qb (if you are offering something more than a high 2nd and hoyer)
You don’t offer a first or more for a full first season, get rejected then at mid season say no thanks trade him somewhere else we wanted him for the first 8 games this year.


100% different. Butler would go to a contender and is a trade for now not the future.

But free agency and the amount of time under cost control makes a huge difference.

 

[Ring 6]

So everyone was wrong to criticize Jimmy's preseason? just pointing out that if that was a consensus opinion there's a good chance there is something to it.

There was absolutely nothing in his preseason that would change the opinion of a team willing to trade more than a high 2 and Brian Hoyer for him.
And yes the criticism on this board is moronic and usually wrong by being overblown 1000 times what it should be. You havent seen that?
People want to fire BB bench Brady and trade 90% of the team.
One moron said we are an 8-8 team in the first half of the first game.
If your argument is what people in this board said you might as well tell me it came to you in a dream.

 

[Ring 6]

But free agency and the amount of time under cost control makes a huge difference.

He is a free agent after this season today just as he was in the off season. Why would you think that changed anything?

 

[AvocadoIceCream]

I’d say reputation of football knowledge but you already have none.

You seem to be triggered bigly by my opinions. I’d say you need to work on that.

 

[Ring 6]

You seem to be triggered bigly by my opinions. I’d say you need to work on that.

Triggered, no. Humored, yes.

 

[brdmaverick]

He is a free agent after this season today just as he was in the off season. Why would you think that changed anything?

When he becomes a free agent has not changed, but the length of cost control to assess his true worth has.

SF is going to thrust him into a situation where he'll have 8 games to learn on the fly and build chemistry with new teammates (while learning new playcalling terminology).

vs.

Having the full offseason to acclimate him to the offense and his teammates to see what he can really do over 16 games.

The second option clearly would allow a team to have a better assessment over a player. If Garropolo succeeds for the rest of the season then I agree the 49ers are no worse off, but my point is that if he struggles it might not necessarily be because 'he's not the right guy' but because of the circumstances he was thrown into.

 

[brdmaverick]

There was absolutely nothing in his preseason that would change the opinion of a team willing to trade more than a high 2 and Brian Hoyer for him.
And yes the criticism on this board is moronic and usually wrong by being overblown 1000 times what it should be. You havent seen that?
People want to fire BB bench Brady and trade 90% of the team.
One moron said we are an 8-8 team in the first half of the first game.
If your argument is what people in this board said you might as well tell me it came to you in a dream.

Right, just like you and I right now, people are going to see things differently, but in those instances when 99% of the people are on the same page (like Dwayne Allen is a bust), then that really tells you something.

 

[Love The Drake]

Agree in general but I do think if some team offered BB a #1 for Malcolm he'd really have to think that one long and hard...

I think he would move him for a third we don't have to like it but BB would think about it.

 

[Ring 6]

When he becomes a free agent has not changed, but the length of cost control to assess his true worth has.

SF is going to thrust him into a situation where he'll have 8 games to learn on the fly and build chemistry with new teammates (while learning new playcalling terminology).

vs.

Having the full offseason to acclimate him to the offense and his teammates to see what he can really do over 16 games.

The second option clearly would allow a team to have a better assessment over a player. If Garropolo succeeds for the rest of the season then I agree the 49ers are no worse off, but my point is that if he struggles it might not necessarily be because 'he's not the right guy' but because of the circumstances he was thrown into.

Any team trading a high second plus hoyer or more isn’t evaluating him for a season they are offering an immediate long term contract.
That is what SF is already doing.

You need to stop grasping at straws and realize they got now pretty much what they would have gotten in April and they also got 8 games of injury insurance.

 

[Ring 6]

Right, just like you and I right now, people are going to see things differently, but in those instances when 99% of the people are on the same page (like Dwayne Allen is a bust), then that really tells you something.

It wasn’t 99% of the people and it wasn’t people saying he sucked and should be devalued.
You are grasping at straws or tilting at windmills or whatever phrase you want to use for finding inconsequential reasons to support a flawed position.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I think he would move him for a third we don't have to like it but BB would think about it.

I dunna know. They'll get a 3rd in comp when he walks. Rather keep him as the defense is better with him than w/o him

 

[brdmaverick]

It wasn’t 99% of the people and it wasn’t people saying he sucked and should be devalued.
You are grasping at straws or tilting at windmills or whatever phrase you want to use for finding inconsequential reasons to support a flawed position.

Grasping at straws? You're the one trying to deny that he had a bad camp. Regardless of what other people said even you yourself should be able to acknowledge that he had a bad camp. Sure, you can argue that it shouldn't affect his stock, but to deny he had a bad camp would just be crazy.

....and I know we're going down a side road here with that but my overall point stands that what we got in trade value yesterday isn't necessarily the best offer we've had on the table.

 

[Bruins29]

Right, just like you and I right now, people are going to see things differently, but in those instances when 99% of the people are on the same page (like Dwayne Allen is a bust), then that really tells you something.

Are you saying that this forum and many member's opinion should be highly valued because they are all on the same page with Duane Allen Sucking?

Yikes.

 

[brdmaverick]

Are you saying that this forum and many member's opinion should be highly valued because they are all on the same page with Duane Allen Sucking?

Yikes.

Good job trying to spin it, but that's not what I said. You took the wrong lesson from that comment.

All it means is that if 99% of the people are on the same page about Dwayne Allen sucking..........it probably means Dwayne Allen sucks.

 

[Ring 6]

Grasping at straws? You're the one trying to deny that he had a bad camp. Regardless of what other people said even you yourself should be able to acknowledge that he had a bad camp. Sure, you can argue that it shouldn't affect his stock, but to deny he had a bad camp would just be crazy.

He was fine.

....and I know we're going down a side road here with that but my overall point stands that what we got in trade value yesterday isn't necessarily the best offer we've had on the table.

There is nothing backing up that it wasn’t.
And again if the Cleveland rumor we’re true (because that’s the only speculation that was out there) the browns would have offered Houston’s 1 in a heartbeat.

 

[Ring 6]

I dunna know. They'll get a 3rd in comp when he walks. Rather keep him as the defense is better with him than w/o him

He only goes if he is gumming up the world like jc91, err jcsr51

 

[Love The Drake]

I dunna know. They'll get a 3rd in comp when he walks. Rather keep him as the defense is better with him than w/o him

Yeah but maybe BB values the pick more that uncertainty and knowing if he will be taking up cap.
My take is if he thinks he can go with Gilmore Rowe Bad Moose and J Jones with C Jones coming back he may value a pick In that range.
Anything less than a third and I wouldn't understand it.