Changes

[DarrylS]

Some mention of simplifying the Defense, believe it was Harmon who said they have already simplified the D and had the same results.. I know he is the golden child and will never have to buy a drink in this town, but Malcolm Butler seems completely **** the bed this year..

More Harris might be helpful, his leadership skills may be needed.. but you have McCourty and Hightower in that role.

The most disheartening thing about this team this year is both the O line and D Backfield(with the exception of Gilmore) have not had a lot of changes for them to deal with...

 

[Thelonious]

I wasn't going to post this week, since I'm so fed up w/ the NFL that it's no fun to think about 'em any more. I started some time ago to feel this way about the NBA: a lousy version of a great game played by lousy people. I haven't watched an NBA game in ten years now. Anyway:

1. David Harris: Given his reputation for diligence and football IQ, I have to assume that his minimal play is the result of the Pats' having discovered he just doesn't have the physical skills to do the job any more. I think he's done for, so the only change here would be to replace him. If he's your messiah, you're in trouble.
2. Chung is a tightly role-bound, serviceable safety. When you're "serviceable" and his age, the inevitable (tb12 excepted!) decline drops you quickly from serviceable to replaceable to replaced.
3. McCourty is what he is, a failed corner who has made of himself a solid safety. He's a sure tackler who, because of his intelligence will almost always be in the right place. But, because of the limitations which undid him as a corner, he'll often get there a little later than you'd like. The increase in long pass plays allowed might even suggest that he is at times lately not getting there at all. McCourty is fine, but there is no upside there, no schematic option which might make him more valuable than he is, so if you're looking for change to turn the d around, you'll have to look elsewhere.
4. Butler showed last year what he can be, and there is absolutely no empirical basis for thinking he cannot be that again. The Pats should have signed him rather than Gilmour. Whatever goddam snit the powers-that-be got into regarding Butler is really unfortunate. As for change this year, I do think there's hope there, although if Butler has a little inhibiting F U in his game this year based on how he was treated, I can't blame him much.
5. I studied Gilmour's interviews pretty closely, and here's what I think. Some people who are limited in their ability to understand choose not to try because if they try and then fail, that failure reveals and confirms their limitations. One way to cover for this is to affect a too-kool-for-school schtick, glibly mouthing chillax cliches. As this stance becomes a habit, it becomes ingrained laziness. Gilmour in my opinion is dumb and lazy, and the one catalyzes the other. Signing him was a mistake. His skills, which are excellent, are of no use whatever when he keeps running off to who-knows-where (he doesn't) every other play. The only change here, after a futile period of due diligence in an effort to solve the problem, is to cut your losses, not the sort of change one hopes for.
6. The front seven is modestly talented, which would be enough if they knew what they were doing and if the coaches could, at least for a while, resist the temptation to rotate players so often that it looks like a goddam Chinese fire drill, if we're still permitted to use that expression.
7. I think the d is gonna stay in the pretty lousy to really lousy range all season long, that this will result in too much pressure on the offence, leading to losses and possibly injury. I'd use the season to clean house - beginning with the entire secondary coaching staff, including you-know-who - and to try out a few youngsters to see what you've got going forward. This is NOT "giving up on the season," since it is quite possible that the newbie down-roster guys, or couple of vets not quite so grizzled as Harris, might be better than the mess you've been putting out there so far.
8. There you have it. Now I'm gonna fire up the splitter and bust up some wood, put back a few Smuttynoses as I do. Don't tell OSHA.

 

[archstanton543]

I wasn't going to post this week, since I'm so fed up w/ the NFL that it's no fun to think about 'em any more. I started some time ago to feel this way about the NBA: a lousy version of a great game played by lousy people. I haven't watched an NBA game in ten years now. Anyway:

1. I studied Gilmour's interviews pretty closely, and here's what I think. Some people who are limited in their ability to understand choose not to try because if they try and then fail, that failure reveals and confirms their limitations. One way to cover for this is to affect a too-kool-for-school schtick, glibly mouthing chillax cliches. As this stance becomes a habit, it becomes ingrained laziness. Gilmour is dumb and lazy, and the one catalyzes the other. Signing him was a mistake. His skills, which are excellent, are of no use whatever when he keeps running of to who-knows-where (he doesn't) every other play. The only change here, after a futile period of due diligence in an effort to solve the problem, is to cut your losses, not the sort of change one hopes for.

Sounds like you're just picking on the new guy because he's new. What's wrong with the D backfield isn't solely his fault. It's the fault of everyone back there. Calling him names when you don't know him is extremely unfair just because he's not showing you enough "fire in the belly" when talking to reporters. It's way too early to know if signing him was a mistake. It's only been four games. If BB ships him off to Cleveland or something during the off season then, yeah, I'll agree with you. But for this season he's not going anywhere.

 

[Thelonious]

Sounds like you're just picking on the new guy because he's new. What's wrong with the D backfield isn't solely his fault. It's the fault of everyone back there. Calling him names when you don't know him is extremely unfair just because he's not showing you enough "fire in the belly" when talking to reporters. It's way too early to know if signing him was a mistake. It's only been four games. If BB ships him off to Cleveland or something during the off season then, yeah, I'll agree with you. But for this season he's not going anywhere.

I hear you, butI think I done slung a little mud elsewhere as well. I'm hell on laziness, I admit: all ex-teachers are for some reason.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I will add this Gilmore is being paid like a Shut Down CB he should start playing like one. I would also put Butler back on the Outside and live with his short coming there. Going into the Season I thought the Defensive Backfield was a Strength of this Team. Also if you can't bring pressure naturally you have to design creative Blitzes. That sit back and react D is not going to work with this current Front 7 we are too UN-Athletic there.

I don't think blitzing in general is the right answer, since I don't see blitzing solving any of the issues we've seen up to this point. If there's one bright spot I've seen on the defense to date it's that the ends get more pressure without needing to bring an extra man than I expected they would a month ago.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they bring some blitzes on Thursday. Winston's not a bad QB, but he does have a penchant for trying to win the game by himself and making ill-advised, hurried throws under pressure. Force him into a few of those and you'll probably end up with a pick or two.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I studied Gilmour's interviews pretty closely, and here's what I think. Some people who are limited in their ability to understand choose not to try because if they try and then fail, that failure reveals and confirms their limitations. One way to cover for this is to affect a too-kool-for-school schtick, glibly mouthing chillax cliches. As this stance becomes a habit, it becomes ingrained laziness. Gilmour is dumb and lazy, and the one catalyzes the other. Signing him was a mistake. His skills, which are excellent, are of no use whatever when he keeps running of to who-knows-where (he doesn't) every other play. The only change here, after a futile period of due diligence in an effort to solve the problem, is to cut your losses, not the sort of change one hopes for.

This board is full of uninformed hot takes, but this might be the worst I've seen yet, and somehow even worse because you try to pass it off as being studied and informed in some meaningful way. What interviews have you studied pretty closely? I'd really like to know. I'm no fan of Gilmore and I've been harder on him than most, but to read into a couple interviews that he must be too stupid to learn a playbook is ridiculous. He's picking things up slower than most, but he'll get there. It's not hard to learn this stuff, Jamaal Charles literally competed in the Special Olympics and even he figured it out, granted at a much easier position. It's a rare occurrence to find a guy who is simply too stupid to learn his position, and to assume that Gilmore is Cordarrelle Patteron-level dumb based on a couple interviews is asinine. And even if Belichick were to somehow conclude that Gilmore is too dumb to learn the position, he would still have value as a man-to-man defender. It would limit what we could do on defense, but would still be a nice piece to have.

Lastly, the fact that you're suggesting we cut him shows that you haven't done even a cursory review of his cap hits. Cutting him this year would add $14M to his cap hit. Cutting him next year would add $10M to his cap hit. The earliest we can even consider cutting him is 2019, and the earliest we can see meaningful savings from it is 2020. If you're wondering why Belichick guaranteed $40M to a guy who appears so out of sorts in this system, then I'm with you on that. It's risky as hell, because we're stuck paying him for 3 years and that's a lot of money to tie up in a guy who hasn't proven he can play at a high level in your defense. But in any case, you probably should have taken 20 seconds out of your intensive interview-studying time and headed on over to Spotrac before you came up with that hottest-of-hot-takes. Then again, I dunno why I'd expect someone to know a guy's cap hit when they can't even spell his name.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Sounds like you're just picking on the new guy because he's new. What's wrong with the D backfield isn't solely his fault. It's the fault of everyone back there. Calling him names when you don't know him is extremely unfair just because he's not showing you enough "fire in the belly" when talking to reporters. It's way too early to know if signing him was a mistake. It's only been four games. If BB ships him off to Cleveland or something during the off season then, yeah, I'll agree with you. But for this season he's not going anywhere.

Your avatars make this whole back-and-forth much more entertaining. Two dogs discussing football.

 

[archstanton543]

Your avatars make this whole back-and-forth much more entertaining. Two dogs discussing football.

But mine's disappointed and looks like Peyton Manning.

 

[Thelonious]

This board is full of uninformed hot takes, but this might be the worst I've seen yet, and somehow even worse because you try to pass it off as being studied and informed in some meaningful way. What interviews have you studied pretty closely? I'd really like to know. I'm no fan of Gilmore and I've been harder on him than most, but to read into a couple interviews that he must be too stupid to learn a playbook is ridiculous. He's picking things up slower than most, but he'll get there. It's not hard to learn this stuff, Jamaal Charles literally competed in the Special Olympics and even he figured it out, granted at a much easier position. It's a rare occurrence to find a guy who is simply too stupid to learn his position, and to assume that Gilmore is Cordarrelle Patteron-level dumb based on a couple interviews is asinine. And even if Belichick were to somehow conclude that Gilmore is too dumb to learn the position, he would still have value as a man-to-man defender. It would limit what we could do on defense, but would still be a nice piece to have.

Lastly, the fact that you're suggesting we cut him shows that you haven't done even a cursory review of his cap hits. Cutting him this year would add $14M to his cap hit. Cutting him next year would add $10M to his cap hit. The earliest we can even consider cutting him is 2019, and the earliest we can see meaningful savings from it is 2020. If you're wondering why Belichick guaranteed $40M to a guy who appears so out of sorts in this system, then I'm with you on that. It's risky as hell, because we're stuck paying him for 3 years and that's a lot of money to tie up in a guy who hasn't proven he can play at a high level in your defense. But in any case, you probably should have taken 20 seconds out of your intensive interview-studying time and headed on over to Spotrac before you came up with that hottest-of-hot-takes. Then again, I dunno why I'd expect someone to know a guy's cap hit when they can't even spell his name.

I acknowledged the need for an effort over time to see if he could get it. My view, though, is that it will not work. If he ever contributes anything to the team, I will in return bother to learn how to spell his name. As for the cost of getting rid of him, that will be somewhat balanced by the obvious cost, based on his performance thus far, of keeping him. Besides, we may get something for him, since he's apparently quite an attractive bauble, given that even the usually savvy Belichick was seduced by his "promise," as apparently are you.

 

[Thelonious]

But mine's disappointed and looks like Peyton Manning.

Mine's an illegal refuge from Puerto Rico and has a nicer hairdo.

 

[archstanton543]

Besides, we may get something for him, since he's apparently quite an attractive bauble, given that even the usually savvy Belichick was seduced by his "promise," as apparently are you.

The dude made the Pro Bowl last year. Gilmore's not some flashy rookie they're taking a flyer on or a using a high draft pick on.

 

[skspikex2]

They need to change the name of the Patriots plane to Tom Brady. Since he’s the one carrying the whole team.

 

[SVN]

Dont expect many changes on a short week. Maybe 10 days after this.

 

[Raymond]

This might sound a little silly but our defenders need to have a pizza party or some sort of casual meeting together some night. *IF* the team pulls out a win Thursday, they will have a day or two to consider such a gathering.

 

[Thelonious]

The dude made the Pro Bowl last year. Gilmore's not some flashy rookie they're taking a flyer on or a using a high draft pick on.

So he's a bauble with a bauble: same point.

 

[jimnance]

And I realize there will be a bunch of cut Gilmore stuff, but let's be realistic. He is the most talented corner on the roster and is just 4 games jntona long term commitment.

Andy- What's your definition of "talent"?
Mine is based on results,not "potential".
Malcolm Butler is the most talented cbs on the Patriots and it's not really close.
Let's go back even to mbs rookie year, when Brady said he gave him more problems than anyone,including Revis.
Let's compare big plays since then,not close.
Let's compare success vs. top wrs. Not close. Never heard any top wr say Gilmore shut them down like Antonio Brown said of Malcolm.
Malcolm: 2 pro bowls, 1 All-Pro selection.
Gilmore: 1 Pro bowl,0 All-Pro selections.
Gilmore is not and never had been,in butler's class. Yet. Gilmore best is among the best in the nfl- but, " consistency" is a talent. Butler had been more consistently good than Gilmore over his career. Gilmore has been consistently inconsistent.
That being said, I still liked the signing.( tho feel he was overpaid). I still believe he will be very good by dec. He might even be as good or better than malcolm by then. He had tools. But Andy, don't confuse tools with talent.2 different things. Look I know we disagree on this.
But I agree almost 100% with the rest of your post. Especially about returning Dmac to cf where he belongs as one of the best. Problem there is chung ain't looking so good this year and Harmon can't play in the box at all. I think BB was just tinkering,trying to find what works.
Call me crazy, but I still think this will be a top D by end of year.

 

[K. Dog]

I studied Gilmour's interviews pretty closely....The only change here, after a futile period of due diligence in an effort to solve the problem, is to cut your losses, not the sort of change one hopes for.

I analyzed Gilmore's interviews in July and concluded he would hurt the defense, particularly the chemistry. But I don't recall anyone agreeing with my analysis at the time; quite the contrary.

That said, how do you propose to "cut your losses" here? Logan Ryan is gone, he'd have happily stayed for a fraction of what Gilmore got. If we cut Gilmore we get a $22M salary cap hit the next two years. And we still would need another corner.

That's why I said before the season, the Gilmore signing jeopardizes the dynasty. There's no way to recover from it, not this season, not next season, not the season after that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Agree but over the last 3 years the limited use got him on the field 99% of the time . Now I guess he's more limited

Having to cover more downfield, and for longer, really exposes his coverage deficiencies.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Having to cover more downfield, and for longer, really exposes his coverage deficiencies.

Yep. Ive been saying for years anything past 15 yards of the LoS hes exposed.

He was like that when he first got here.

Now it seems its within 10 yds but not sure.

 

[mgteich]

James Ihedigbo - Unsigned Free Agent - 2017 Player Profile - Rotoworld.com

This guy's available. I saw him recently on one of the shows. He seems ready to go. He played for us. He plays SS. And, if nothing else, he is a solid special teamer.