I hate Jerome Boger

[RelocatedPatFan]

The Chung holding penalty at the end was utterly inexplicable. McCaffrey came at him to block and Chung grabbed him and pushed him down. That happens on EVERY SINGLE running play in NFL history. Defenders use their hands to grab and try to throw the blockers out of the way. That's all he did. I want someone to explain to me how THAT is holding. I've literally never, ever seen that call made before in my life.

The Pats' D was bad today. The refs were similarly awful. It's possible to hold those two things at the same time.

This even had the announcers scratching their heads. And while they weren't awful, they do seem to miss things that could go "the patriots way". For example, late in the game, when we had an offsides penalty, you could see the the Carolina guard pull back before our guy jumped. Would seem to be a false start, but no mention of that.

Move to when Rivera was complaining about a false start that wasn't called and they reviewed the play and said the Patriots got away with one (though they could see that it was close).

 

[Nehalem]

The Chung holding penalty at the end was utterly inexplicable. McCaffrey came at him to block and Chung grabbed him and pushed him down. That happens on EVERY SINGLE running play in NFL history. Defenders use their hands to grab and try to throw the blockers out of the way. That's all he did. I want someone to explain to me how THAT is holding. I've literally never, ever seen that call made before in my life.

The Pats' D was bad today. The refs were similarly awful. It's possible to hold those two things at the same time.

You probably haven't seen it called because it pretty much literally isn't holding

If the quarterback or the receiver of the snap demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball (i.e., hands off or pitches the ball to another player, throws a forward or backward pass, loses possession of the ball by a muff that touches the ground or a fumble, or if he is tackled) the restrictions on the defensive team prohibiting illegal contact, or an illegal cut block, against an eligible receiver will end, and a defensive player is permitted to use his hands, arms, or body to push, pull, or ward off an offensive receiver, pursuant to Rule 12, Section 1, Article 5

So basically after the QB hands off the ball there is no penalty for defensive holding.

 

[Username]

There were some horrible calls, but there were some boneheaded decisions by Patriots too, to give the refs the chance to throw a flag. Chung putting his hands on the WR on the finals drive for example.

 

[brdmaverick]

The big takeway from the game is just how awful the Pats defense is, but since we're talking officiating specifically, yes, that was bad too.

This is my pet peeve of offensive pass interference in general. Offensive players push off ALL THE TIME, and when a flag is thrown the announcers are always quick to defend the call by saying "oh, there it is. He extended his arm there."............while I'm screaming at the TV "much more contact happens on EVERY play and does NOT get called." On this specific Gronk call the replay was shown and the commentators agreed "I don't see anything there."..................if THEY don't see anything then that tells you something........that it wasn't just a bad call but a TERRIBLE one.

As for the other crucial calls you pointed out, what drives me especially crazy about them is that they had little-to-no influence over the play. All of them were crucial calls that happened away from the ball. The calls themselves were questionable but let's imagine that they were all legit calls. I know, a penalty is technically a penalty, but there are so many things that are technically penalties on any play that I would think it would be in the NFL's best interest to be more lenient on things that have zero influence on the play. Otherwise, you'll get a boring flagfest.

PS: Despite this rant I still put the loss 100% on the Pats themselves. I only pinpoint the refs in this thread because it's the topic of thread discussion.

 

[yukon cornelius]

There were some horrible calls, but there were some boneheaded decisions by Patriots too, to give the refs the chance to throw a flag. Chung putting his hands on the WR on the finals drive for example.

that's not boneheaded at all, that's basic defensive technique.....thats chucking a block 101, at every level of the game you're taught to throw that block by you......

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I think Belichick should have told the team (if he didn’t already) that this referee and his crew likes to throw flags. He should have also reiterated that during halftime.

 

[Triumph]

Your clueless. You come here and troll posters after a loss like that? The refs absolutely affected the outcome. Go pound salt.

Whining about the Refs is what losers do.

This Patriots defense is dead last in the NFL for good reason. They suck. Other teams are walking into the endzone from the 50 yard line.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

So basically after the QB hands off the ball there is no penalty for defensive holding.

I'm pretty sure that's not true. The prohibitions you cited that end when there is a demonstrated lack of intention to pass don't include defensive holding/illegal use of hands. I'm pretty sure defensive holding is illegal always.

Likewise within the 5yd chuck zone before a pass. You can contact and chuck the receiver, but you cannot hold them.

 

[Mark.]

Seems that Brady felt the same way we did.
Tom Brady doesn't appear thrilled with refs following loss to Panthers

 

[JMC00]

Was I the only one who saw that the offsides penalty (against Flowers?) that helped keep a Panthers drive alive came after a blatant false start (by the right guard, number 70?)?

Ya dude definitely twitched which by definition is a false start but them not calling Cannon kind of canceled it out.

I'm fine for refs calling it both ways but this wasn't both ways.

And no this isn't me absolving the defense but when the defense isn't playing good and they get stops on 3rd down and it's canceled out for something that can be called on pretty much every play of course people are going to zone in on it.

Are people really going to buy the idea that the Panthers did not at any time commit a hands to the face? Which had the Pats even been flagged at all this year for hands to the face? I can't recall them ever being flagged, yet yesterday it gets called twice. The first one called was definitely one the ref was looking for I mean they showed it in slow-motion and it was still questionable

I mean just look at this



The penalty is "illegal hands to the face" not "illegal finger tips on the chinstrap"

The second one



You could call this every time a CB jams a WR. Just comes off like those guys were looking for it. Seen a lot more egregious stuff go uncalled.


That's the problem with these refs zero consistency from crew to crew.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Seems that Brady felt the same way we did.
Tom Brady doesn't appear thrilled with refs following loss to Panthers

Surprised. I think tommy's frustrated with the inconsistency of the refs.

 

[PatriotsNumero1Fan]

Ya dude definitely twitched which by definition is a false start but them not calling Cannon kind of canceled it out.

I'm fine for refs calling it both ways but this wasn't both ways.

And no this isn't me absolving the defense but when the defense isn't playing good and they get stops on 3rd down and it's canceled out for something that can be called on pretty much every play of course people are going to zone in on it.

Are people really going to buy the idea that the Panthers did not at any time commit a hands to the face? Which had the Pats even been flagged at all this year for hands to the face? I can't recall them ever being flagged, yet yesterday it gets called twice. The first one called was definitely one the ref was looking for I mean they showed it in slow-motion and it was still questionable

I mean just look at this



The penalty is "illegal hands to the face" not "illegal finger tips on the chinstrap"

The second one



You could call this every time a CB jams a WR. Just comes off like those guys were looking for it. Seen a lot more egregious stuff go uncalled.


That's the problem with these refs zero consistency from crew to crew.

Looking at the play there was no need for Gilmore to do that. Ughhhh

 

[Nehalem]

Ya dude definitely twitched which by definition is a false start but them not calling Cannon kind of canceled it out.

I'm fine for refs calling it both ways but this wasn't both ways.

And no this isn't me absolving the defense but when the defense isn't playing good and they get stops on 3rd down and it's canceled out for something that can be called on pretty much every play of course people are going to zone in on it.

Are people really going to buy the idea that the Panthers did not at any time commit a hands to the face? Which had the Pats even been flagged at all this year for hands to the face? I can't recall them ever being flagged, yet yesterday it gets called twice. The first one called was definitely one the ref was looking for I mean they showed it in slow-motion and it was still questionable

I mean just look at this



The penalty is "illegal hands to the face" not "illegal finger tips on the chinstrap"

The second one



You could call this every time a CB jams a WR. Just comes off like those guys were looking for it. Seen a lot more egregious stuff go uncalled.


That's the problem with these refs zero consistency from crew to crew.

The commentators were much WTF about the call in the 4Q. If you have WTF calls clearly determining the outcome of the game you have a problem. And that wasn't enough. They had another WTF call to give them an extra 5 yards on the FG.

Meanwhile the last time the Panthers and Patriots played Boger let Kuechley bearhug Gronk in the endzone...

 

[Mark.]

The commentators were much WTF about the call in the 4Q. If you have WTF calls clearly determining the outcome of the game you have a problem. And that wasn't enough. They had another WTF call to give them an extra 5 yards on the FG

Meanwhile the last time the Panthers and Patriots played Boger let Kuechley bearhug Gronk in the endzone...

I think that was Clete Blakeman, but it seems that bad things happen when we play the Panthers. Well, except for Superbowl 38.

 

[luuked]

I think Belichick should have told the team (if he didn’t already) that this referee and his crew likes to throw flags. He should have also reiterated that during halftime.

So after watching DJY2 and how Patricia was informed by other team scouts about player and referee tendencies you believe this didnt happen why ?

Also you gotta expect a minuscule amount of rational thinking from those players. If you cant trust them to stay on the legal side of things consistently then you will never be able to trust them to run more sophisticated coverages.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The problem is this dumb grading system the NFL uses to determine who gets to ref in the post season. If you miss a call or two, the league immediately downgrades you. The result is that some of these refs get too flag happy.

 

[JMC00]

You probably haven't seen it called because it pretty much literally isn't holding



So basically after the QB hands off the ball there is no penalty for defensive holding.

Any competent crew would have picked up the flag. One of three things would be the only reason why they didn't

- They came to the conclusion that Chung's contact is the reason why Newton handed off. Which would be STUPIDITY. Because if Chung is getting flagged for a passing penalty it wouldn't have been an "added to the end of the run" penalty. Which it was. Go look it up. LOS was the 41, Stewart ran 2 yards to the 39, ref spotted the ball at the 34 for the flag.

-They don't know the rule. Which would be INCOMPETENCE.

-They know the rule and still called it. Which would be CORRUPTION.

As it states in the rule the second Newton handed it off McCaffery became a blocker which Chung is allowed to fight off.

Any competent ref picks up the flag and says "there is no foul for defensive holding"


If the flag is picked up and the same thing happens on the next two plays that it did yesterday Carolina picks up only 4 more yards from the 39. Putting them at the 35. Which ends up being a 52 yard FG instead. Maybe he nails it, maybe he doesn't. But Gano is 56% from 50+ in his career. From 40-49 he's 78.5%

 

[Silver Blue&Red]

Brady thinks so too? Oh no. That can't be . We are just a bunch of losers, whining over the refs. ... They are not the reason we lost. The Defense sucked. ...BUT , the refs absolutely changed the outcome of the game. And I believe it was intentional. Booger is Goodell's *****

 

[luuked]

The problem is this dumb grading system the NFL uses to determine who gets to ref in the post season. If you miss a call or two, the league immediately downgrades you. The result is that some of these refs get too flag happy.

I somehow doubt that throwing out too many flags (even if perfectly justified) sits well with them either. Otherwise those bozo officials that directed the travesty in London would soon be superstars.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Another Pats/Panthers controversial ending all in favor of Carolina *fp*