Celtics trade Isaiah Thomas, Brooklyn 2018 pick & players for Kyrie Irving

[RobertWeathers]

solid list. I'd take Kyrie over DeRozen or Wall

You could argue that for sure. I love Wall

 

[ALP]

I support the trade but he might not be in the top 10.

In no order...

LBJ
Steph
KD
Kawhi
Harden
Westbrook
Ant Davis
DeRozen
Wall
KAT

I'd prob take Kyrie over: westbrook, derozen, wall and KAT (not taking into account team needs, contracts, etc)..and possibly Steph
at their ages, id take Kyrie over LBJ

 

[borisman]

Thing is, none of those players were available for trade.

Yes but it still doesn't change the fact that Kyrie, right now, is not one of the top 5 players in the league. I don't see him moving up too much either but he could also be surpassed by some upcoming players as well. I love Kyrie but those are pretty much facts. If this trade goes through he'll shine in this offense and on this team. It's not a bad thing that he's not a top 5 (or 10) player but he's in the conversation for sure at the bottom of the top 10 list.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I'd prob take Kyrie over: westbrook, derozen, wall and KAT (not taking into account team needs, contracts, etc)..and possibly Steph
at their ages, id take Kyrie over LBJ

You can argue all of them.

 

[Bill Lee]

He's in the conversation for sure at the bottom of the top 10 list.

Fair enough. Seems that getting a player who's the ~10th best player in a league that has ~450 players is worth giving up some assets for, so I'm not sure what the argument is about any more.

A comment in general is that humans do OK with small numbers like top 5, but in general we get uncomfortable with dealing with much more, so we put a lot of stock in labeling someone a top 5 player, a lot more than we probably should. Getting a top 10 player is a wonderful thing. If it makes people feel better, we can say we traded for a player who is in the 98th percentile of all NBA players!

 

[borisman]

Fair enough. Seems that getting a player who's the ~10th best player in a league that has ~450 players is worth giving up some assets for, so I'm not sure what the argument is about any more.

A comment in general is that humans do OK with small numbers like top 5, but in general we get uncomfortable with dealing with much more, so we put a lot of stock in labeling someone a top 5 player, a lot more than we probably should. Getting a top 10 player is a wonderful thing. If it makes people feel better, we can say we traded for a player who is in the 98th percentile of all NBA players!

I think people were discussing whether or not an extra 1st round pick is worth to get this kind of player. Cleveland asking for J. Brown, J. Tatum or the LAL pick is kind of extortion and may be an overpay for someone whose not a top 5 player. They will not get as good of a deal as the C's have already agreed to. Saying IT4 has a hip issue is news to them? They were playing vs. him when he injured it so they saw it first hand and knew or were told he would not be ready to start the season. They'll just have to wait until December to get IT4 on the court or go do a Phoenix deal for Eric Bledsoe and a 1st (?). I don't think Kyrie would waive his trade kicker for Phoenix and also they would need to somewhat match up the salaries. I would give them a 2nd rounder or 2 but that's it.

 

[rochrist]

Going to need a source on that. I'm intensely skeptical that you can find even one NBA expert who believes that Kyrie Irving is a top 5 player in the NBA, let alone most of them.

As I've pointed out before, 'NBA Experts' believe there are /at least/ 25 'top five' players in the league.

 

[slam]

I'd like to hear LeBron chirp up right about now. If this deal goes South the Cavs will likely do a much lesser deal and he'll be wasting a valuable year of his time.

 

[Tuck]

I call ********. And Ainge should too. If I were him Id pull Thomas out of the deal, offer the celtics actual first round pick instead and watch Altman fill his pants.

 

[borisman]

I call ********. And Ainge should too. If I were him Id pull Thomas out of the deal, offer the celtics actual first round pick instead and watch Altman fill his pants.

The Cavs can void the deal if they think IT4 will be out for most of season due to injury. The C's cannot void the deal unless the meds came back negative on Kyrie. As much as DA would (VERY doubtful) like to call BS, it ain't happening. At least we'll know where we stand tomorrow (whether CLE voids it or both teams ask for an extension to discuss additional compensation). If an extension is granted then it's obvious DA has agreed to think about adding more assets to deal. He could also drag it out and then say NYET, good luck with getting a better deal.

 

[Off The Grid]

I call ********. And Ainge should too. If I were him Id pull Thomas out of the deal, offer the celtics actual first round pick instead and watch Altman fill his pants.

Seriously.

Stupid-Ass phucking Trade, unless Thomas's lost a Leg, and maybe even then.

There is such a thing as Chemistry, and the C's've gutted theirs.

Trading Bradley for Nothing ~ yeah, I know there're Cap Considerations, but this could've been done in a far better way ~ was stupid enough.

This Trade was disgustingly stupid.

No need to be Premature E's...Hold the Pix, develop the best Top Talent Top 8 Depth in the History of the Game as CleveLand and G State Fade...and then Rock.

Incredibly stupid Trade. I pray that it implodes.

*Edit: The Cavs have to trade Erving. Who has the Leverage??? We do.

Erving's Trade Value is depressed. Hello??? James is Vapor. Phuck those guys. They have to move Erving. Don't give'm a Core Piece of our Future, Ainge, you Hole.

Offer'm Thomas straight up, Doubtful Health and all.

And'f they don't like it?? Wait'm out.

They'll come around.

 

[TommyD4207]

I really wonder what CLE was thinking when they leaked the results of the physical.

They were thinking about how much smaller their Brinks Truck would be for IT after the season...if it shows up at all.

Putting this out there absolutely kills his market. Call the Celtics unloyal, but they didn't do this

 

[BlacknGold77]

Seriously.

Stupid-Ass phucking Trade, unless Thomas's lost a Leg, and maybe even then.

There is such a thing as Chemistry, and the C's've gutted theirs.

Trading Bradley for Nothing ~ yeah, I know there're Cap Considerations, but this could've been done in a far better way ~ was stupid enough.

This Trade was disgustingly stupid.

No need to be Premature E's...Hold the Pix, develop the best Top Talent Top 8 Depth in the History of the Game as CleveLand and G State Fade...and then Rock.

Incredibly stupid Trade. I pray that it implodes.

*Edit: The Cavs have to trade Erving. Who has the Leverage??? We do.

Erving's Trade Value is depressed. Hello??? James is Vapor. Phuck those guys. They have to move Erving. Don't give'm a Core Piece of our Future, Ainge, you Hole.

Offer'm Thomas straight up, Doubtful Health and all.

And'f they don't like it?? Wait'm out.

They'll come around.

Chemistry is the most overrated cliche people use about sports.

You know what breeds chemistry? WINNING.

For all that wonderful heart warming chemistry, the team last year was a non factor. Big deal, they got to the ECF, they also got their heads smashed in. They were painfully below the level of Cleveland/GSW/SA

Bradley trade was a good one, cap space was needed for Hayward. Also Bradley is getting a max deal after this year. You want to pay him 25+ mill?

IT4 for Kyrie is a good swap. I love Thomas but he is undersized and his game is based on quickness. Not a good recipe for a 29yr old with hip issues. Yes the Brooklyn pick was a premium to pay, but its worth it to move your window back 3 years and get the better player back.

and FYI, Thomas's trade value was damaged just as much as Irving's. Everyone knows his hip is in bad shape and everyone knows he's going to look for a max deal as an undersized 30 yr old with said bad hip

 

[TommyD4207]

If Cavs are going to have Crowder and IT in their facility and aren't going to accept the trade, Ainge should file tampering charges.

I love this. They're both FAs at the end of the year. It's totally tampering.

 

[TommyD4207]

Seriously.

Stupid-Ass phucking Trade, unless Thomas's lost a Leg, and maybe even then.

There is such a thing as Chemistry, and the C's've gutted theirs.

Trading Bradley for Nothing ~ yeah, I know there're Cap Considerations, but this could've been done in a far better way ~ was stupid enough.

This Trade was disgustingly stupid.

No need to be Premature E's...Hold the Pix, develop the best Top Talent Top 8 Depth in the History of the Game as CleveLand and G State Fade...and then Rock.

Incredibly stupid Trade. I pray that it implodes.

*Edit: The Cavs have to trade Erving. Who has the Leverage??? We do.

Erving's Trade Value is depressed. Hello??? James is Vapor. Phuck those guys. They have to move Erving. Don't give'm a Core Piece of our Future, Ainge, you Hole.

Offer'm Thomas straight up, Doubtful Health and all.

And'f they don't like it?? Wait'm out.

They'll come around.

The thing is, and someone else said it in the thread, IT is only in the deal to make the money work. The deal's for the Brooklyn pick. The rest is just to even the money.

 

[supafly]

Saying IT4 has a hip issue is news to them?

No one is claiming that IT's hip is "news to them." Everyone knew about his hip issue.

It seems as though there are differing opinions as to the timetable of his recovery and severity of his injury. Let's remember that he didn't have surgery and the hope was to heal sufficiently on its own.

He's in his last year under contract and possibly/probably the last year with LeBron. There's a big difference from Isiah being ready by say, November (Ainge's opinion), and being ready in January or February, where he'd potentially miss half the season. Of course that's a big difference. It's enormous. A matter of 6-8 weeks could change a lot. There's also the possibility that Cleveland's doctors feel that he may have issues upon return, or feel as though he may still have a chance of needing surgery down the road if it lingers.

Why are people failing to grasp this insanely simple concept? Different doctors can often have differing opinions on the timetable and recovery process. That happens all day, every day in real life. I'm not saying CLE is correct (Gilbert's shady as hell), but why on earth do people keep parroting how the Cavs supposedly didn't know about the hip, etc? That has nothing to do with this situation.

 

[borisman]

No one is claiming that IT's hip is "news to them." Everyone knew about his hip issue.

It seems as though there are differing opinions as to the timetable of his recovery and severity of his injury. Let's remember that he didn't have surgery and the hope was to heal sufficiently on its own.

He's in his last year under contract and possibly/probably the last year with LeBron. There's a big difference from Isiah being ready by say, November (Ainge's opinion), and being ready in January or February, where he'd potentially miss half the season. Of course that's a big difference. It's enormous. A matter of 6-8 weeks could change a lot. There's also the possibility that Cleveland's doctors feel that he may have issues upon return, or feel as though he may still have a chance of needing surgery down the road if it lingers.

Why are people failing to grasp this insanely simple concept? Different doctors can often have differing opinions on the timetable and recovery process. That happens all day, every day in real life. I'm not saying CLE is correct (Gilbert's shady as hell), but why on earth do people keep parroting how the Cavs supposedly didn't know about the hip, etc? That has nothing to do with this situation.

If they think he's gonna miss most of the year they would've voided the deal by now and moved on. It's a labrum injury and not an ankle sprain. They've had weeks to figure out the severity and time tables of such injuries. They knew what they were getting into.

 

[supafly]

They've had weeks to figure out the severity and time tables of such injuries. They knew what they were getting into.

You very well may be right, but this statement also contradicts your earlier quote that I responded to, which claimed:

"saying IT has a hip issue is news to them?"

Again, you may be right, and I agree that Dan Gilbert can be a slimy ass dude, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that one doctor disagreed with another upon actual physical examination, and that their recovery timelines and suggested treatments may differ a bit.

Also, I'm not suggesting that anyone feels that he could miss "most of the season," but rather 6-8 weeks more than Ainge and the C's doctors thought. That would make a significant difference if one felt November and the other feels beginning of 2018.

 

[Jackson 2]

To me, one of two things happened: 1) for some reason, de facto GM Lebron put the kibosh on this, or 2) some other team whispered in their ears: " We would have given you more. "

 

[RobertWeathers]

To me, one of two things happened: 1) for some reason, de facto GM Lebron put the kibosh on this, or 2) some other team whispered in their ears: " We would have given you more. "

I'm not sure who else could offer more.

I just think Gilbert has traders remorse