OT- How good is Peyton Manning all time?

[jmt57]

Not a dig, NoT trying to diminish the player - actually curious about how people on here feel : How would Elway perform in today's NFL ? Do we think he'd be better /worse / same as he was in his era ?

Elway tore the hearts out of Patriots fans many, many times. I know there is a knock on him for not being clutch because of the Super Bowl losses, but those Denver teams were not at all close to the best in the NFC at that point in time. He willed those teams to get as far as they did.

The comebacks were not just limited to the two playoff games against the Browns either. You simply never assumed that Denver was going to lose as long as Elway was the quarterback.

I am sure Elway would flourish in today's NFL if he could be transported through time and play now. Aside from having a strong and accurate arm - and having great mobility - Elway seemed to really excel with the mental aspect of the game too.

 

[neali]

I'll take five rings over "I'd rather have..." any day. When Brady is gone, they'll realize how gullible they were to believe another player can win at .778 ever again, in any era, with any coach. Brady's winning percentage and postseason records are about as unbreakable as anything in American sports. "The system" though. In other words, I have nothing left but need to get in the last word.

.735 win pct in the playoffs. Unreal.

 

[Uptown]

Peyton Manning had a Top 10 defense 8 TIMES in his career. I'll have none of this BS "Peyton didn't have Brady's defenses" nonesense. AND he played in a DOME!

 

[BobDigital]

I just want to make clear. This thread is not about comparing Manning to Brady. That is done. It is about Manning vs every HOF or future HOF QB and seeing where he stacks up.

As amazing as he was at times imo he was more of a front runner. Yes he had a lot of comebacks but generally vs worse teams and in unimportant spots. 2006 Pats is the only example of him having a truly good comeback and it is a game against an inferior team on the whole at home. That is the only playoff game that really sticks out in his entire career. He had better stat games vs crap Ds but who cares. Brady lite up the the Broncos with Tebow for 6 TDs. Does anyone care about that in retrospect? Nope. I feel the same way about the few games in the playoff Manning ran it up vs trash Ds. A few of those games help mask what is a near 1:1 TD/Int ratio vs everyone else.

I sometimes put Manning in my top 10 and sometimes not. As amazing as he was at times he you play to win the superbowl and when i ask "which 10 QBs give me the best chance to do that" I have a hard time putting him in the top 10.

If you are not judging with that question in mind you are judging the wrong things.

 

[Alternator]

2nd of his era, I'd say that "Marino with a ring" is about right for a comparison. Maybe #5-6 for the last three decades?

Brady, Montana, Young, Elway, Manning, Marino seem a pretty convincing top 6, with some quibbling about the order. Going back much further and it's really hard to confidently compare QBs, since the passing rules are so much different.

 

[jmt57]

If we are talking all time, then I have to place Johnny Unitas and Otto Graham ahead of Manning. I would also have to consider Bart Starr, Sid Luckman, Norm Van Brocklin and Roger Staubach as well.


If we are going to take the article that started this conversation, and their 1978 as a starting point, then we can leave the old timers out and evade comparing very different eras.


For me:

1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Dan Marino
5. Peyton Manning
6. Drew Brees
7. Dan Fouts
8. Aaron Rodgers
9. Warren Moon
10. Brett Favre

 

[captain stone]

At the Very Least, both Brees AND Rodgers are better than the Fivehead in the above list. I would also be willing to listen to arguments in favor of Warren Moon ahead of the entitled hillbilly.

 

[supafly]

Elway tore the hearts out of Patriots fans many, many times. I know there is a knock on him for not being clutch because of the Super Bowl losses, but those Denver teams were not at all close to the best in the NFC at that point in time. He willed those teams to get as far as they did.

The comebacks were not just limited to the two playoff games against the Browns either. You simply never assumed that Denver was going to lose as long as Elway was the quarterback.

I am sure Elway would flourish in today's NFL if he could be transported through time and play now. Aside from having a strong and accurate arm - and having great mobility - Elway seemed to really excel with the mental aspect of the game too.

Elway was one of the top QBs in the league at the time, but his 300--227 TD/INT ratio is almost laughable. I don't even think he'd be any better than someone like Brees, for example, and that may even be a stretch because I think Brees is a better pure passer with less WR talent and very little running game to support his strengths.

I fully agree with you that he had a lot of heart and grit and could will teams back, etc. I'd compare him to someone like Brett Favre. Just my opinion, of course. Perhaps I'm biased because he's always been such an arrogant ass, from his "Eli-like" refusal to go to the team that drafted him, to his pretty boy diva persona coming from Stanford. Again, if someone asked for a comparison, I'd probably look to a gritty, fiery competitor like Favre. That said, I wouldn't have him in my top 5, and may not even have him in my top 8.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

I'd put Peyton around 6th all time behind Brady, Montana, Starr, Graham, and Elway. Like Marino, most of Mannings seasons fell short in the playoffs when playing more complete football teams with strong defenses. Peyton never had a defense in Indy. That '06 defense that some might argue was "very good" was the 7th worst defense at stopping the run - in all of NFL history!

Ultimately Indy's front office failed him by failing to build a more balanced and multi-dimensional team around him - on both offense and defense. Bill Polian is to blame for this.

 

[deroc5050]

Its hard for me to rank I am not old enough I was born in 80. Joe Montana was sort of an idle of mine growing up a house hold name. Legendary. And now Tom has pretty much obliterated his legend. I remember Marino and Montana but I was young.

So my list goes

Tom Brady #1 QB of all time
Joe Montana #2

After that I will defer to other opinions. I saw some really impressive games that Peyton played in. Peytons touch pass has to be top 3 of all time. To me he never really had a rocket arm but just had that perfect intermediate / long ball.

I would have to put Peyton #3
#4 Elway/Rodgers
#5 Marino/Brees

I guess..

 

[Ring 6]

Starr sort of sticks out like a sore thumb on this list. Although you can't deny his form on the toss sweep, I guess.

Brady
Montana
Elway
Staubach
Graham
Unitas
Manning
Young
Marino

Marino is probably physically the most gifted QB on that list, however.

Starr dominated an era. You have to accept the game had changed. I would bet that if you laid Starr's numbers against the average in those those years and did the same with manning you would be very surprised.

Marino didn't win and that why you play the fans. Take a look at marinos numbers in the playoff losses. He was the reason they lost many times.

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

I put Manning 4th or 5th all time. His individual stats are undeniable. Also, the amount of audibles and control over the offense he had was unheard of before him, he really went towards revolutionizing the position in that aspect. And he does have some post season success, even with an overall spotty at best postseason career.

At his best, he's Dan Marino with a ring.

Brady
Montana
Starr
Marino
Manning

Brady-Marino-Montana- Manning (in that order) are the best QB's I've seen in my lifetime.

Can't really speak to Starr or Staubach.

Don't understand why Otto Graham doesn't get more love.

 

[BlacknGold77]

Brady-Marino-Montana- Manning (in that order) are the best QB's I've seen in my lifetime.

Can't really speak to Starr or Staubach.

Don't understand why Otto Graham doesn't get more love.

for the same reason George Mikan doesnt get talked about when discussing NBA greats.

His accomplishments were well before the modern era of the league and because of that aren't looked at in the same light as others.

I mean, Im all for including that era for NFL...if for nothing else, then because Providence RI gets some recognition for having an NFL Championship (1928, the Steam Roller)

funny enough, the Providence Grays also won whats accepted as the 1st World Series (1884)

 

[sean10mm]

Peyton never had a defense.

If you exclude the top 10 scoring defenses they fielded in 2002, 2005, 2007, 2008 and 2009.

Plus Denver in 2012 and 2015.

Nobody is saying he should have won rings with trash fire defenses. Bu the truth is he played on multiple teams that were loaded ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL and chocked a bunch.

 

[Joey007]

Well, I can easily put Brady and Montana ahead of him. It can't be denied though how great his stats were in regular seasons. Playoffs mean the most, but still his accomplishments are far from worthless.

If I'd go since 78, I could definitely see him being fourth behind Brady, Montana, and Elway.

It definitely gets tricky if we go all-time. I know some, but not enough about the older QB's. Unitas, Staubach, Graham, and Starr would all have strong cases. So Manning would be anywhere from 4-8 on my list.

 

[Joey007]

When it comes down to it, history judges NFL quarterbacks on ONE major category.

Is Dan Fouts often mentioned among the league's most legendary quarterbacks?

What is the one thing that's said about Dan Marino every time his name is brought up?

Do people talk a lot about Joe Montana's passer rating or pro bowl selections?

Do you happen to know the statistical prowess or all-pro award count for Bart Starr, Otto Graham, or Roger Staubach?

Everything else is essentially a footnote. It's all about the ring count. Unless you are trolling around comments sections looking for negativity, you'll find a near unanimous consensus that Brady is the greatest QB ever, and this is less than a year removed from his BS suspension.

Only problem here is, where's Aikman and Bradshaw on these lists if it always comes down to just rings?

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

Don't understand why Otto Graham doesn't get more love.

Agreed - he played 10 years and took his team to 10 consecutive championships (winning seven of them) under legendary coach (and Belichick's idol) Paul Brown. he still holds a few statistical records including career win/loss record as well. The fact that he played in the pre-super bowl era works against him. I more heavily favor QBs with championships in my list (have him of Marino and Manning) and this guy has the trophies and clearly dominated his era..

 

[Ring 6]

If we are talking all time, then I have to place Johnny Unitas and Otto Graham ahead of Manning. I would also have to consider Bart Starr, Sid Luckman, Norm Van Brocklin and Roger Staubach as well.


If we are going to take the article that started this conversation, and their 1978 as a starting point, then we can leave the old timers out and evade comparing very different eras.


For me:

1. Tom Brady
2. Joe Montana
3. John Elway
4. Dan Marino
5. Peyton Manning
6. Drew Brees
7. Dan Fouts
8. Aaron Rodgers
9. Warren Moon
10. Brett Favre

Interesting.
I think you have to put manning ahead of Marino. Mannings problem is choking in big games and Marino was worse at that.
Moon seems too high and you left out aikman who should be top 5 and Steve young. In my opinion of course.

 

[Ring 6]

Only problem here is, where's Aikman and Bradshaw on these lists if it always comes down to just rings?

Aikman belongs.
Bradshaw gets dissed because at the beginning his team won in spite of him but the last 2 he earned.

 

[glm]

Agreed - he played 10 years and took his team to 10 consecutive championships (winning seven of them) under legendary coach (and Belichick's idol) Paul Brown. he still holds a few statistical records including career win/loss record as well. The fact that he played in the pre-super bowl era works against him. I more heavily favor QBs with championships in my list (have him of Marino and Manning) and this guy has the trophies and clearly dominated his era..

Otto Graham actually won 7 championships, he made it to 10. And 4 of those championships were in the AAFC which was vastly inferior to the NFL. He only has 3 NFL championships. Not trying to knock him, just putting things into perspective.