Cyrus Jones still struggling on returns

[Biffins]

i cant believe we have a 3 pg thread on if a 2nd year player, drafted in the 2nd round is going to make the roster...

100% he is making the roster, if anyone wants to bet otherwise, put your money where your mouth is, otherwise stop wasting time and posting in this thread and find another to "contribute"

I think the thread is more about that the player is going to turn out to be a bust and will end up wasting a roster spot again this year before getting cut. I agree BB will keep him for 2 seasons like he does most top picks (Easley, Dowling, Darius Butler, etc) that don't work out.

 

[supafly]

Gilmore replacing Ryan doesn't affect where C Jones is on the depth chart.

It could quite possibly move Butler into a nickel role if Rowe mans the other outside position, which the beat writers and forum members have talked about occurring at times in certain situations.

Any way you look at it, Cyrus seems to be at least the CB4 and possibly the CB5 with plenty of competition in front of him. He's going to have to earn the right to win that position, and with Butler possibly taking some reps away and Coleman having more experience, he'll have his work cut out for him. That's not even bringing up J.Jones, who was working as the slot CB all last week.

We'll see how he looks in TC.

 

[supafly]

The thing that you and a lot of others are missing is that he was reportedly doing fine with punt returns in practice.

Except he wasn't, at least not in TC. You can find articles stating that he was struggling in both coverage and the return game throughout training camp from day one, with the exception seeming to occur during Saints joint practice week/preseason game. And even if he turned things around and started having better practices (I certainly believe you), that's still much different than real game settings.

Belichick had him in with the ones from the very first day, and also had him as the lead punt returner. He was allowing him the opportunity to try and work through his mistakes time and again. We all remember it. After the 4th muffed punt he benched him and made him inactive for a stretch. When he returned late in the season to address an injury (week 13) and give the starters a rest in the blowout (week 15), he promptly muffed a 5th punt. Even during the blowout in the Jets game, he still only saw 7 defensive reps. After that he never saw the field again.

And yes, the addition of Gilmore may allow Butler some slot work at times. It's actually expected.

 

[supafly]

i cant believe we have a 3 pg thread on if a 2nd year player, drafted in the 2nd round is going to make the roster...

100% he is making the roster, if anyone wants to bet otherwise, put your money where your mouth is, otherwise stop wasting time and posting in this thread and find another to "contribute"

NESN has their latest projection today with him missing the cut. The idea of him not making the team may have a low likelihood of happening, but it's certainly being discussed in places outside of this forum.

Patriots 53-Man Roster Projection: Will Cyrus Jones Make The Cut?

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

Still, as you point out, the likelihood of him getting cut is probably pretty low unless there's something going on behind the scenes that we're unaware of.

As horribly inept as Cyrus looked in games, I recall that he won practice player of the week at least once last season. Not that it means that there's nothing going on behind the scenes, but it does point to an acknowledgment on the part of the coaching staff that he is putting in the effort.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I would be really surprised if they don't give him one more season. He's struggling but at least he is taking responsibility for it and working to fix it. They should take him off returns and let him focus solely upon playing CB for now, they can let him try again once he's confident playing CB.

 

[Oswlek]

Fans are overly optimistic and quick to forgive players based on their higher draft status.

Couldn't the optimism be rooted in the potential that inspired the second round selection rather than the selection itself? Said otherwise, it isn't because of where they were drafted, it's that the motive for the optimism and the selection is the same.

I also don't think Harper is a great comparison. He never would have been promoted from the PS if not for the rash of injuries, so he was already on a short leash to begin with. Then you have the fact that Harper was far more likely to not get claimed than Jones was/is.

Except he wasn't, at least not in TC.

I have no link to provide, but I remember it being explicitly stated by someone on the team that Jones wasn't having the same problems in practice.

 

[Deus Irae]

I have no link to provide, but I remember it being explicitly stated by someone on the team that Jones wasn't having the same problems in practice.

Rookie cornerback Cyrus Jones muffed another punt in 11-on-11 special teams work. He has muffed a number of punts over the course of training camp. After practice, he stuck around to catch punts with one hand.

James White and Tyler Gaffney get opportunities with running-back injuries

In the early days of camp, Cyrus Jones muffed a few punts, and was beat in coverage regularly in 1-on-1’s and team drills. But on the final day of open practice at training camp in Foxborough on Wednesday, Jones was practicing with the starting defense at cornerback.

Cyrus Jones says he’s trying to prove to Patriots coaches he deserves to play with starting defense

 

[fightingirish595]

I've also questioned how much Cyrus can develop. Still do.

 

[FourierSeries]

Hard to get a feel for corner play in OTAs. We'll know a lot more about that when they put on the pads in TC.

Would be great if the kid could show something at slot CB over the summer. The battle of the Joneses at that position should be interesting.

 

[maineman209]

No, he didn't play decently as a rookie, which is my point. He appeared in 10 games -- zero passes defended, three tackles and four assisted tackles. He underachieved.

CJ played a total of 147 defensive snaps, 14% of the season total. He only had a significant percentage of defensive snaps in four of the nine games in which he appeared on defense:
... Wk-3, HOU, 33 snaps (46.5%)
... Wk-5, CLE, 18 snaps (28.6%)
... Wk-12, Rams, 18 snaps (35.3%)
... Wk-13, BAL, 48 snaps (68.6%)

The thing is, if a DB's coverage his good enough, the opposing QB won't throw his way very often and he won't have many chances to get PDs or INTs. So, the question to ask is, "How many times was he thrown at?" out of those 147 snaps? The only way to put his lack of stats into context is to know how many plays were run at him.

 

[maineman209]

Cyrus Jones did not play well at corner last year. He fought for, and sometimes lost, the final game day spot to Justin Coleman, who did not have a good year, and has zero special teams value.

Coleman, only one year older, is odds on not to make a roster spot this year. Unless Jones is an Eric Rowe caliber CB, he better bring special teams to his game to make it with the Patriots.

After week-10 (SEA), Coleman had a grand total of four defensive snaps the rest of the season, all of them at the end of the season finale at Miami.

Meanwhile, CJ had 18 snaps in week-13, 48 snaps in week-14, and 7 at the end of the Jets game in week-16.

 

[Tunescribe]

CJ played a total of 147 defensive snaps, 14% of the season total. He only had a significant percentage of defensive snaps in four of the nine games in which he appeared on defense:
... Wk-3, HOU, 33 snaps (46.5%)
... Wk-5, CLE, 18 snaps (28.6%)
... Wk-12, Rams, 18 snaps (35.3%)
... Wk-13, BAL, 48 snaps (68.6%)

The thing is, if a DB's coverage his good enough, the opposing QB won't throw his way very often and he won't have many chances to get PDs or INTs. So, the question to ask is, "How many times was he thrown at?" out of those 147 snaps? The only way to put his lack of stats into context is to know how many plays were run at him.

The operative stat for Jones is number of snaps. If the coaches had confidence in him he would've played more.

 

[mgteich]

After week-10 (SEA), Coleman had a grand total of four defensive snaps the rest of the season, all of them at the end of the season finale at Miami.

Meanwhile, CJ had 18 snaps in week-13, 48 snaps in week-14, and 7 at the end of the Jets game in week-16.

If Coleman wasn't injured, one conclusion is that we might very well carry 5 corners, including the Jones brothers.

 

[maineman209]

The line of highly drafted CB's who haven't worked out in the Belichik era include, among others: Terrence Wheatley, Darius Butler, Jonathan Wilhite, Ras-i Dowling. All four of these guys were given at least 2, and up to 3 years before getting jettisoned. Based just on this, I think Belichick would give him at least another season to catch on - he has proven to be surprisingly patient in situations like this.

Wilhite was a 4th-round pick.

Wheatley and Dowling were first-round talents who dropped into the second due to injury risks. BB took a flyer on both - and lost.

Athletically, Butler was kind of the Byron Jones of his day, but he turned out to be uncoachable in the Pats' scheme. He went on to a decent career as a slot corner in Indy.

Tavon Wilson didn't work out at Safety for the Pats, and got passed on the depth chart, but became and excellent special teamer. Then, last season in Detroit, he was their starting strong Safety and second-leading tackler.

 

[maineman209]

The operative stat for Jones is number of snaps. If the coaches had confidence in him he would've played more.

And replaced who? Rowe? Butler? Ryan? Harmon?

 

[maineman209]

Do you remember the vitriol for Chris Harper when he fumbled that punt return in Denver, which arguably cost us a Super Bowl appearance? The team cut him the next day

You mean the fumble in week-12?

Harper had shuttled back an forth between the PS and the 53-man at least a couple times before that game. Yes, he was "cut the next day". And then he was re-signed to the PS as soon as he cleared waivers.

 

[Tunescribe]

And replaced who? Rowe? Butler? Ryan? Harmon?

Situational rotation.

 

[TheFlyingWedge]

Wilhite was a 4th-round pick.

Wheatley and Dowling were first-round talents who dropped into the second due to injury risks. BB took a flyer on both - and lost.

Athletically, Butler was kind of the Byron Jones of his day, but he turned out to be uncoachable in the Pats' scheme. He went on to a decent career as a slot corner in Indy.

Tavon Wilson didn't work out at Safety for the Pats, and got passed on the depth chart, but became and excellent special teamer. Then, last season in Detroit, he was their starting strong Safety and second-leading tackler.

Yes of the guys I mentioned, only Wilhite wasn't a 2nd rounder so one could argue that he wouldn't be considered "highly drafted".

 

[mgteich]

Situational rotation.

nice words

The fact is that neither of the Jones brothers should have been on field in place of Butler, Ryan, Rowe or Harmon.

There are no situations where they would have been the stronger player.

But that's fine. Those are only 3 corner positions. There are 2-3 more positions open this year.