Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[farn]

I'm so tired of all this Butler trade talk, this seems like it's been going on for years!!!! Can we just keep Butler and have one of the best
secondary's in the league?

Pretend the Butler situation is the gameday thread & shut er down !

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

 

[Pessimistic Pete]

I'm so tired of all this Butler trade talk, this seems like it's been going on for years!!!! Can we just keep Butler and have one of the best
secondary's in the league?

This. This off-season would be an A+ if not for this crap.

"Here's today latest of update of how the best defensive player on our team in the prime of his career is going to be traded! The latest development makes it suck even more!

The Patriots will receive the Saints 11, trade it back for the 32nd pick which will then be swapped back in exchange for the Saints 5th round draft pick and the rights to the Malcolm Butler motion picture"

It goes without saying the Pats can overcome this and will still be rightfully heavy favorites to win #6 this year with or without Butler. But it just seems so unnecessary.

I want this kid locked up for the prime of his career here. Butler makes us one of the best secondaries in the league, without him, it suddenly becomes a huge question mark (How will Gilmore be as the #1 here? How the hell will our #2 guy be? etc).

 

[CelticPatriot]

Butler gets offer sheet, we don't match, we get the Saints #11 pick, THEN we trade back to the Saints that #11 pick for #32, #forty-whatever (Saints 2nd), and a conditional late-rounder next year.

Cleanest way to do it.

Discuss with the Saints "if we somehow were to get a pick in the 10-12 range in this draft, we will trade it to you for #32, #forty-whatever (Saints 2nd), and a conditional late-rounder next year."

Butler's name never comes up!

Why would the Pats make that trade? It's terrible value.

 

[jboston19]

Is there a rule that forbids a third team from signing a RFA and trading him? For instance, Atlanta has 6 picks in this draft. If they signed Butler and traded him for 32 and some other picks to New Orleans, they'd be moving only one slot down in the first, gaining a few extra selections, and be none the worse for wear. Is that legal through the CBA or no?

 

[mosslost]

Why would the Pats make that trade? It's terrible value.

yeah why wouldn't we keep the 11 at that point?

 

[mosslost]

This. This off-season would be an A+ if not for this crap.

"Here's today latest of update of how the best defensive player on our team in the prime of his career is going to be traded! The latest development makes it suck even more!

The Patriots will receive the Saints 11, trade it back for the 32nd pick which will then be swapped back in exchange for the Saints 5th round draft pick and the rights to the Malcolm Butler motion picture"

It goes without saying the Pats can overcome this and will still be rightfully heavy favorites to win #6 this year with or without Butler. But it just seems so unnecessary.

I want this kid locked up for the prime of his career here. Butler makes us one of the best secondaries in the league, without him, it suddenly becomes a huge question mark (How will Gilmore be as the #1 here? How the hell will our #2 guy be? etc).

This. This off-season would be an A+ if not for this crap.

"Here's today latest of update of how the best defensive player on our team in the prime of his career is going to be traded! The latest development makes it suck even more!

The Patriots will receive the Saints 11, trade it back for the 32nd pick which will then be swapped back in exchange for the Saints 5th round draft pick and the rights to the Malcolm Butler motion picture"

It goes without saying the Pats can overcome this and will still be rightfully heavy favorites to win #6 this year with or without Butler. But it just seems so unnecessary.

I want this kid locked up for the prime of his career here. Butler makes us one of the best secondaries in the league, without him, it suddenly becomes a huge question mark (How will Gilmore be as the #1 here? How the hell will our #2 guy be? etc).

The only reason we would give up the 11 as you describe is that we already agreed to in some way linked to the Cooks deal. So, whether you like Cooks or not, you have to factor his value into whatever ends up happening. Everyone wants to say they are separate but they are linked. You can hate Cooks for Butler, that is fine.. but that is part of the value calculation.. definitely.

 

[pherein]

The Patriots will receive the Saints 11, trade it back for the 32nd pick which will then be swapped back in exchange for the Saints 5th round draft pick and the rights to the Malcolm Butler motion picture"
.

I paid pete to say that sorry, Deal looks great to me. Only you trade us back the 5th for a bag of nachos, and not ranch.

 

[ausbacker]

This. This off-season would be an A+ if not for this crap.

"Here's today latest of update of how the best defensive player on our team in the prime of his career is going to be traded! The latest development makes it suck even more!

The Patriots will receive the Saints 11, trade it back for the 32nd pick which will then be swapped back in exchange for the Saints 5th round draft pick and the rights to the Malcolm Butler motion picture"

It goes without saying the Pats can overcome this and will still be rightfully heavy favorites to win #6 this year with or without Butler. But it just seems so unnecessary.

I want this kid locked up for the prime of his career here. Butler makes us one of the best secondaries in the league, without him, it suddenly becomes a huge question mark (How will Gilmore be as the #1 here? How the hell will our #2 guy be? etc).

Butler isn't the best defensive player on this team. IMO, it's Hightower or McCourty.

 

[XLIX]

Is there a rule that forbids a third team from signing a RFA and trading him? For instance, Atlanta has 6 picks in this draft. If they signed Butler and traded him for 32 and some other picks to New Orleans, they'd be moving only one slot down in the first, gaining a few extra selections, and be none the worse for wear. Is that legal through the CBA or no?

I suppose it's legal but keep in mind that Butler is under no obligation to just accept any offer sheet that any other team presents and the Patriots can choose to match any offer he does accept.

So in order to sign Butler in the first place, the Falcons would have to offer a big enough contract to induce Butler to sign it - not to mention big enough that the Patriots won't match it. Presumably that would include a large signing bonus and/or a lot of guaranteed money. Of course, it would also have to be small enough that the Saints were willing to adopt the contract. I can't imagine a situation where it is worth going through all that trouble to pick up a 4th rounder.

Plus I'd bet Butler could file a grievance against that if he wanted to so he would have to be on board with the whole plan as well.

 

[reflexblue]

Pretend the Butler situation is the gameday thread & shut er down !

Amen........

 

[mgteich]

There are no decisions for now. I trust that the team will keep $6-$10M available in case it wants to match a one-year offer 0f $10-14M instead of taking the 1st.

Otherwise, we will wait until April 23rd and decide then what offers we think the team should accept for Butler's services. Perhaps, at that point, the patriots would rather have Butler for one year than take the offers available.

 

[Uptown]

Butler isn't the best defensive player on this team. IMO, it's Hightower or McCourty.

Agree & soon to be Flowers

 

[IllegalContact]

I do not believe this is correct. I would have to check the CBA to verify this. My impression has always been that if he actually signs the tender, he is then considered under contract with the Patriots, which limits his ability to talk freely with other teams, receive formal offer sheets, visit facilities, etc.
Yes we have already established several days ago that officially this is correct, but unofficially a sign-and-trade is what, for all intents and purposes, could happen (similar to the Welker trade).
Of course they can. You are not allowed to tender a player in bad faith for the purposes of restricting their movement, but NE and NO most certainly can discuss hypotheticals such as "would you take the #32 for Butler if we come to a separate contract agreement with him?"

Unofficially nothing........both these teams were officially punished for unofficial things

I am sure they don't want to wind up on the end if that stick again

 

[ivanvamp]

The only reason we would give up the 11 as you describe is that we already agreed to in some way linked to the Cooks deal. So, whether you like Cooks or not, you have to factor his value into whatever ends up happening. Everyone wants to say they are separate but they are linked. You can hate Cooks for Butler, that is fine.. but that is part of the value calculation.. definitely.

The other scenario is if BB believes that Butler will be so discontented with playing for $3.9 million under the first round tender that BB feels it necessary to move him. And if New Orleans (or anyone else for that matter) is unwilling to part with a first round pick, then the Patriots - IF BB feels what's best for the team is trading Butler no matter what - will indeed have to take less than a first round pick to make that happen.

Of course, none of us knows anything about how BB feels about the situation.

 

[ashley]

Pretend the Butler situation is the gameday thread & shut er down !

Oh Farn, you are too much lol

 

[kennyb]

The only reason we would give up the 11 as you describe is that we already agreed to in some way linked to the Cooks deal. So, whether you like Cooks or not, you have to factor his value into whatever ends up happening. Everyone wants to say they are separate but they are linked. You can hate Cooks for Butler, that is fine.. but that is part of the value calculation.. definitely.

Completely WRONG.

Pats are entitled to 11 only if the saints sign butler to an offer sheet.

Sants haven't done that and most likely won't. Saints are trying to negotiate a trade and are not offering the 11th pick.

The pats aren't entitled to anything other than the what is offerred in the trade. PERIOD. That's it. Take the trade or keep butler, or negotiate further.

Number 11 is available ONLY IF NO signs him to an offer sheet. They AREN'T DOING THAT. It is thus IRRELEVANT.

 

[moosekill]

I want to make sure I understand this.

Option 1 is Butler agrees to a contract with the Saints. If this happens then
1a. The Patriots match the offer then Butler stays in New England at the agreed upon contract and the Saints get nothing.
1b. If the Pats don't match the offer, the Pats get NO's pick #11 and Butler goes to NO. This hasn't happened in the league in a long time because I guess teams value their #1 picks more than signing a free agent to a contract higher than their original team is willing to pay, and having to give up their first round pick.

Option 2 Butler doesn't agree with NO and signs the RFA thingy and then is back to the Patriots for $3.9 mill this year.
2a. Patriots could sign him to a long term deal if they want.
2b. Patriots could trade him to another team for whatever they can get. Which could be NO's 32 pick, a second round, or whatever another team is willing to pay.
2c. Patriots could do him nothing and let him play here this year for $3.9 million then either he walks, he works out a long term contract, or he is franchised for 2018.

Am I missing anything or is this right, I got lost in the long discussion about the collective bargaining and the teams discussing stuff before hand, and teams working stuff out, and the Cook wink wink nod nod stuff.

I must admit, having the Saints spend all this time working out a contract with Butler while thinking the Patriots will turn around and trade him for a lower pick than #11 seems a little far fetched, but I guess we will see.

 

[luuked]

Am getting tired of this #11 ******** hanging around. It won't happen and everyone knows it except the media doesn't want to let it go for drama's sake.

In this draft I'd rather have #42 and #76 than #32. There is only minimal difference between the players you get after #20ish up until the end of the second round.

 

[moosekill]

Am getting tired of this #11 ******** hanging around. It won't happen and everyone knows it except the media doesn't want to let it go for drama's sake.

In this draft I'd rather have #42 and #76 than #32. There is only minimal difference between the players you get after #20ish up until the end of the second round.

I think the odds are small but it either will or it won't, but we shall see.