Patriots Rumor Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[Marqui]

That logic is whacked.
A team has limited cap room and is negotiating with a player. That makes them desperate? So every player a team negotiates with is someone they are desperate for?

If they're willing to continue screwing up their cap for them, yes.

 

[RayClay]

That's true but remember that BB doesn't seem to tolerate malcontents or players that will give him some problems.

He had all the leverage with Collins, but dealt him mid season during a Super Bowl run for a third round pick. That's it.

None of us knows if Butler is, or will be, a malcontent. Or if he will give BB problems if he is "forced" to play for the Pats under the $3.9m tender.

But it Belichick (whose opinion is the only one that matters) THINKS that could happen, he's quite likely to trade him away, even if it means getting less than what he SHOULD get for him.

On the face of it, Collins is worth way more than a third round pick. But BB wanted him gone and if that was the price, so be it.

If he feels that Butler is going to be a problem, he'll trade him away for less than what we think he should get, even though he (BB) had all the leverage.

No, Collins was going to be a FA and they'd get nothing. I'll apologize if I'm wrong, but the two situations were nothing like each other.

 

[Ring 6]

If they're willing to continue screwing up their cap for them, yes.

Why would you be screwing up your cap by signing a top player at a position of need?
And why would that make you desperate? It's almost the opposite.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

If NE has leverage over Butler and NO wants Butler desperately, then NE has leverage over NO. It's not that complicated.

NE has the same leverage over NO (or any team) re: Butler that they have re: any non-RFA or under-contract player. There is no extra leverage at all. If Butler was under contract to NE then NE would have the same amount of leverage (actually, they'd have a bit more) on NO as they do now.

 

[RayClay]

NE has the same leverage over NO (or any team) re: Butler that they have re: any non-RFA or under-contract player. There is no extra leverage at all. If Butler was under contract to NE then NE would have the same amount of leverage (actually, they'd have a bit more) on NO as they do now.

Except that if New Orleans wants to sign him, they have to give us a 1st. Otherwise, they need to hope we make a deal.

 

[Soliel]

Butler will be a patriot...that's all there is to it. Here's why.

There are many in the draft and all that but whats going to happen is he gets signed. Then ne pulls offa denver like defense

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Except that if New Orleans wants to sign him, they have to give us a 1st. Otherwise, they need to hope we make a deal.

That's why NE has *less* leverage over NO re: Butler than with someone under contract. NE can't force NO to give up more than the #11 whereas they (in theory) could with a player under contract.

 

[ivanvamp]

No, Collins was going to be a FA and they'd get nothing. I'll apologize if I'm wrong, but the two situations were nothing like each other.

I didn't say they were the same situation. Just that BB is more than happy to move on from a guy that he deems to be more trouble than he's worth.

And Collins quite possibly would have netted them a 3rd round pick anyway if he left via free agency.

 

[RayClay]

That's why NE has *less* leverage over NO re: Butler than with someone under contract. NE can't force NO to give up more than the #11 whereas they (in theory) could with a player under contract.

I thought you said any non rfa [as in an udfa]. I misread your post. Of course Deion Branch might disagree. Seattle only had to pay a #24 pick and Branch was under contract.

#11 pick plus a big contract is a lot of leverage for the Patriots without all the stuff they had to do to get anything for Branch. I don't think Branch is worth that, few players are. The #11 pick itself would come with an affordable contract for years.

 

[chasa]

That's why NE has *less* leverage over NO re: Butler than with someone under contract. NE can't force NO to give up more than the #11 whereas they (in theory) could with a player under contract.

#11 would be a steal for butler.

 

[RayClay]

I didn't say they were the same situation. Just that BB is more than happy to move on from a guy that he deems to be more trouble than he's worth.

And Collins quite possibly would have netted them a 3rd round pick anyway if he left via free agency.

"He had all the leverage with Collins". A player with a half year on his contract you're lucky to get anything for. Also, there's no evidence Butler is a problem. Reiss made an unfortunate point that could be read into, then clarified that there was no evidence of problem with Butler. Butler's agent is way over his head and put his client in an embarrassing position.

 

[RayClay]

#11 would be a steal for butler.

I'm thinking so too.

 

[ohiopatsfan]

One thing standing in the way of a Butler trade is that NO only has about $12M of cap space left. That might be one reason why it's taking so long to complete the transaction. NO may need to sign Butler to a lower level contract for 2017 and increase it in 2018. If they want him badly enough, something can be worked out.

 

[Froob]

No, Collins was going to be a FA and they'd get nothing. I'll apologize if I'm wrong, but the two situations were nothing like each other.

Seemed like Collins was a guy they didn't want on the team at all, period. Where as Butler isn't a guy they want to get rid of.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

I tell you, I just finished rewatching the second Pat's-Bills game. Gilmore got abused by the Pats! Gilmore gave up a bomb to Hogan (on third and long), a DPI in he endzone, and he was abused by the Gronk.

Meanwhile Butler was making plays all over the field.

I wouldn't trade Butler for Anything less than the #11 pick, now if you replace Ryan with Gilmore, then you have really improved the defense.

 

[RayClay]

Seemed like Collins was a guy they didn't want on the team at all, period. Where as Butler isn't a guy they want to get rid of.

I agree. Butler is a victim of his agent. It seems Pats might have offered him a good contract extension, but his agent stupidly didn't know how RFA works. Butler might be embarrassed, but he has no leverage and NO will not just sign him, they will have to negotiate down. #11 pick and huge contract would be insane for Butler.

 

[RayClay]

Seemed like Collins was a guy they didn't want on the team at all, period. Where as Butler isn't a guy they want to get rid of.

Plus Butler is under contract. Collins would have left after season anyway and wasn't being a team player.

 

[Froob]

I agree. Butler is a victim of his agent. It seems Pats might have offered him a good contract extension, but his agent stupidly didn't know how RFA works. Butler might be embarrassed, but he has no leverage and NO will not just sign him, they will have to negotiate down. #11 pick and huge contract would be insane for Butler.

Saints probably shouldn't use all their cap on him. Corner heavy draft, get a GM in charge that knows what he's doing and make some picks. Not smart for a rookie agent to try to our smart a guy who was probably in the room when the first NFL contract was written lol.

 

[RayClay]

Saints probably shouldn't use all their cap on him. Corner heavy draft, get a GM in charge that knows what he's doing and make some picks. Not smart for a rookie agent to try to our smart a guy who was probably in the room when the first NFL contract was written lol.

Even if they had cap money, the dollars and that pick don't work for that player.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Seemed like Collins was a guy they didn't want on the team at all, period. Where as Butler isn't a guy they want to get rid of.

I agree, I think they had serious doubts that Collins and Jones would give it their all after getting tens of millions, they don't have that reservation with Hightower as they believe in him as a person and a competitor. I think they also believe in Butler as a person and a competitor but there is a real disagreement over value as he wants to be paid as a UFA when he's still a RFA. It's a significant difference and if Butler wants 14 million a year he will have to go elsewhere to get it. I think they will be fine with Butler going to N.O. in return for the #32 , and I think they are fine with him returning and playing out his tender. I don't think they will make any more efforts to sign him to an extension and will let him walk after 2017 and take the compensation.