Butler visiting Saints

[PatriotsPimp136]

Look at other teams that won it all though i.e. 12 Ravens and 13 Seahawks. Neither had top market guys.

I feel the same way about butler. It sucks how things have gone with butler. I feel number 32 for butler's a win for the saints. Even though we have cooks they still have number 11 to add to their defense. Not to mention they have our 3rd rounder as well.

 

[XLIX]

See Hammer's point above about other teams that were trying to trade for Cooks.

There is no obligation on the part of a team to accept the highest offer in trade for an asset. As for Cooks, I don't see him complaining about being treated unfairly either.... he is under contract and probably doesn't care ont bit what the Saints got for him..... so I guess I am just not understanding what the problem is.

 

[jrfitz06]

Cooks was about to get paid a bonus.. trade needed to happen.

No it didn't Brandin Cooks was due a roster bonus of $781,599 on the 5th day of the league year which is today March 14th if the saints held onto him and made a trade for him after today they would have paid him is bonus and then when they traded him that 781k would have just been dead money on their cap and while not ideal I'm not risking getting burned in a trade over 781k in dead money that was my whole point in the grand scheme of everything 781k is peanuts I could understand if his bonus was millions of dollars but it wasn't it was peanuts so NO the saints didn't have to trade him!!!!

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

Look at other teams that won it all though i.e. 12 Ravens and 13 Seahawks. Neither had top market guys.

All about thag secondary. You know how ridiculous this secondary would be with butler? Only thing we would lack's another pass rusher and maybe a linebacker.

 

[50-yard-line]

By the way, if Butler signs and plays under the tender, he makes more in four years in the league than Derek Carr.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Saints rumors were tied to Butler from git-go. Whether it was part of Cooks trade or part of his trade at a later date something had to give and throw in Gilmore's signing and numbers in his contract I'm not surprised at all.

 

[TommyD4207]

We lost Logan Ryan and we're losing Butler, the two top corners in the team's best defense since 2004.

Golly, last time that happened, we started a UDFA and a 3rd round pick everyone wanted to run out of town, and made the AFCCG.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

But the quoted rule was all about "consideration" being involved to induce a team to offer or not offer a sheet to a RFA.

As you know, Goodell can/will interpret things as he pleases.

"Pats traded #32 and a 3rd for Brandin Cooks and the provision that New Orleans won't actually provide an offer sheet to the RFA Butler. This impeded Butler's ability to negotiate with New Orleans because any contract offer was contingent on the Patriots and Saints working out a trade, which is in violation of how the CBA works. In addition, the Patriots essentially 'offered' Butler to New Orleans while he was not under contract with New England, and that consideration was used as a negotiating tactic when dealing with trade offers for Cooks from other teams. This is also a violation.

Since both clubs are repeat offenders, the NFL will impose the following penalties: the trades are all nullified, Cooks and Butler will immediately become UFA not subject to compensatory selections, the Saints and Patriots are fined $5M of cap space each which will be spread evenly among the NY Jets and NY Giants, the Saints lose pick #11 and Sean Payton is suspended for 2017, the Patriots lose pick #32, their 2018 own first rounder and any additional first rounders acquired via trade, and their 2019 third rounder and any picks acquired via trade in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd rounds. The integrity of the game is now preserved. The teams may appeal directly to me."

 

[XLIX]

By the way, if Butler signs and plays under the tender, he makes more in four years in the league than Derek Carr.

Yes, because Butler has hit free agency a year earlier - albeit restricted free agency. His initial contract had far less guaranteed money than Carr's did but Butler benefits from the shorter deal.

 

[TennisBallHead]

The way they've treated Butler is disgusting.

 

[Mack Herron]

1. The same rule I mentioned above, the "consideration" clause. The Patriots' Consideration in that deal was a 7th round pick.
How Patriots grabbed wide receiver Wes Welker from Dolphins - The Boston Globe

It's a gray area as noted -- one the NFL has yet to pursue. The intent is to make sure the player is getting a fair shake in the process. Since that happened in Welker's case, no problem. It appears to be happening in Butler's case too. But this is Roger Goodell we're talking about, with his two favorite targets in sight, and a huge blockbuster trade just happened. Tennessee (for example) might complain that they didn't obtain Cooks because of this arrangement which isn't explicitly allowed.

2. Agree with you here.

As I understand it, the consideration clause refers to specific conditions:
in exchange for
1. a Club’s decision to exercise or not to exercise its Right of First Refusal,
This is not violated because there is no interference with right of first refusal. Specifically, there is no offer sheet so right of first refusal does not apply.

2. or in exchange for a Club’s decision to sub-mit or not to submit an Offer Sheet to a Restricted Free Agent or to make or not to make an offer to enter into a Player Contract with a Restricted Free Agent.
There is no consideration being offered for NO not to submit an offer. We would welcome it. So I do not see a violation here either. And those are the only conditions I can see that are stipulated by the rule.

It is indeed murky. But Goodell doesn't give a rat's ass about players interests, which is the issue here. Rather I would think the union would be the one with a beef. But if Butler receives a big raise and is happy with his new deal, and both teams are happy with the exchange, neither the players nor the league should have an issue. This would be true whether the agreement is for #11, #32, or anything else. I suspect many here are overestimating the return, but I could be pleasantly surprised.

 

[TommyD4207]

They still have our 3rd rounder. How's that
fair value?

You're obsessed with this third rounder. I'm not really sure why.

 

[XLIX]

As you know, Goodell can/will interpret things as he pleases.

"Pats traded #32 and a 3rd for Brandin Cooks and the provision that New Orleans won't actually provide an offer sheet to the RFA Butler. This impeded Butler's ability to negotiate with New Orleans because any contract offer was contingent on the Patriots and Saints working out a trade, which is in violation of how the CBA works. .

You know what? If the Patriots and Saints *did* do the above, then they deserve to be punished. Of course, there's no evidence whatsoever that any of the above actually took place.....

In addition, the Patriots essentially 'offered' Butler to New Orleans while he was not under contract with New England, and that consideration was used as a negotiating tactic when dealing with trade offers for Cooks from other teams. This is also a violation

Still not sure how this is a violation, even if it did happen.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

so you are saying the following is somehow against NFL rules:
-Butler visits saints and they agree to terms on a contract
-Butler signs tender
-Pats trade Butler to saints for say pick 32
-Butler signs extension he agreed to with saints

You're not supposed to tender/franchise a player for the sake of then trading a player. Not usually a big deal but after the league's manufactured evidence does anyone really believe that Rooney/Mara/Johnson wouldn't be screaming at Goodell that the Super Bowl champs just got better and he needs to do something????
Sorry I don't trust Goodell and would rather not take that chance.....
-------------------------------
Correction--You can trade the player with his and the NFLPA's permission. What you can't do is have two teams with a wink wink deal regarding offers and whether to make one or not make one......

 

[TommyD4207]

This is so stupid, Patriots can just keep Butler and franchise him next year and it would effectively be like a 2 year $20M deal. That's fine.

I still don't think this is off the table, btw.

 

[FoxboroFlyer]

The damn trade has been approved by the league already, and processed...If any of that language was in the formal trade presented to the league it would have been nixed. The Cooks trade has absolutely no bearing on the supposed Butler deal.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I post earlier that the Saints have $9mil in cap space according to one site. Overthecap has them at $13 mil, so there is about $4mil difference. But they would still have to cut or restructure to give Butler what he is looking at.

 

[Marqui]

This makes me sick. Patriots literally have ALL the leverage in this situation. They have all the leverage vs the Saints because they can't sign Butler to an offer sheet or else they'd have to give up the #11 overall pick. They have all the leverage vs Butler because he's a 1st round RFA and have him under control this year for a cheap $4M. They also have the franchise tag in their back pocket for him next year. Butler also can't really threaten to hold out on the Patriots because they can just say, "go ahead Malcom, our stacked team will win 13+ games with or without your ass and we'll collect your money until you HAVE to report week 10 and play hard for us on our SB stretch run. That's all we care about anyway. And we'll say the same thing to you next year when we franchise you".

This must be another situation where Belichick just randomly got sick of a guy and now wants to get rid of him for whatever like Easely/Collins.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

You're obsessed with this third rounder. I'm not really sure why.

You're obsessed with this third rounder. I'm not really sure why.

I rather pick 103 than whateva in tbe fourth round. I also value defense a whole lot more than offense considering what we have done without a top tier wr. Saints to me have the slight edge if all this goes down. To me butler's worth more than the 32 draft pick.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

You know what? If the Patriots and Saints *did* do the above, then they deserve to be punished. Of course, there's no evidence whatsoever that any of the above actually took place.....
Still not sure how this is a violation, even if it did happen.

I'm just having "fun" with Goodell's standards. After all, the NFL had no credible evidence that football deflation occurred, and yet here we are....