Butler visiting Saints

[JMC00]

Ryan is in Tennessee.
Sheard (down year still solid player) went to Indy.
Hightower looks like he's set on leaving New England and Butler is packing his bags to move to New Orleans.

But Pats added Gilmore!

I don't see how - in any capacity - fbis defense is better than last years. And I personally didn't think last year's was all that great.

Gilmore is not better than butler in my eyes. At best, he's similar in skill as a player. They still haven't made up for the loss at CB2. Combined with Brady turnin 40 I don't like the direction Bill is taking.

Cyrus Jones will be as good as Ryan was in the system. Ryan was helped by scheme and an All-Pro Safety

Sheard was replaced by Ealy who will probably get double digit sacks in the Pats system

If Hightower was set on leaving he would have told the Pats and there wouldn't be an agreement that he would allow the Pats to match the best offer he finds if he even finds a better offer than the Pats initial.


Gilmore will be a better CB in the Pats system than Butler is. Belichick will put Gilmore 1 on 1 against Julio Jones opening night next season. He wouldn't and didn't do that with Butler.

 

[Love The Drake]

Sounds like they had a deal in miey traded for Cooks. Waited for Butler to sign the tender then trade.

Trade chart has #11 at 1250.

32 = 590
42 = 480
82= 180

Really curious what happened behind the scenes with Butler and his agent.

Sounds like they had a deal in mind when they traded for Cooks. Waited for Butler to sign the tender then trade.

Trade chart has #11 at 1250.

32 = 590
42 = 480
82= 180

Really curious what happened behind the scenes with Butler and his agent.

I think BB saw enough tall receivers make plays when Butler was in perfect technique and said nope quick corners are great but now we have these receivers coming out with height and quickness.
My prediction we draft 1 or 2 tall cornerbacks ahead of their draft projection BB has seen enough.

 

[Ivan]

I'm in the camp that they were trying to work this from the start and the Patriots will get the 32 back, however, if that is the case I want the third back as well.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I assume he needed the 4th to pay the piper.

Yea I thought about that. Maybe its just how the trade formula works.

What I don't know for certain is if BB can trade the pick for something else as opposed to keeping it and losing it.

I'm assuming he loses it no matter what he decides to do with it.

 

[Love The Drake]

Cyrus Jones will be as good as Ryan was in the system. Ryan was helped by scheme and an All-Pro Safety

Sheard was replaced by Ealy who will probably get double digit sacks in the Pats system

If Hightower was set on leaving he would have told the Pats it and there wouldn't be an agreement that he would allow the Pats to match the best offer he finds if he even finds a better offer than the Pats initial.


Gilmore will be a better CB in the Pats system than Butler is. Belichick will put Gilmore 1 on 1 against Julio Jones opening night next season. He wouldn't and didn't do that with Butler.

Wow I love your mentality
Your glass is never half empty is it?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Maybe Payton can throw in Delvin Breaux as hes coming off a injury plagued year.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I think BB saw enough tall receivers make plays when Butler was in perfect technique and said nope quick corners are great but now we have these receivers coming out with height and quickness.
My prediction we draft 1 or 2 tall cornerbacks ahead of their draft projection BB has seen enough.

I think the key is tall CBs who don't give anything up in agility. Gilmore, for all his height, is still one of the more agile, quick corners in the league. It's a very rare skill profile, which is why he was a top 10 pick a few years ago. Typically, you have to make a tradeoff with CBs, where they're giving up size or quickness, because so few have both that you can't reliably get 1, let alone fill up your depth chart with them. There are only a handful in the league, and you're only getting one is if you spend a lot of money, invest a topic pick, or take a flyer on someone with little skill. I think Belichick probably figured that if he was going to pay a CB the kind of money Butler's demanding, he might as well spend it on one of those rare guys.

 

[FrodoBagginz]

So it would basically be....

Malcolm + 3th for Cooks + 4th (which makes no sense if BB loses it. Hes better off getting a 3rd or a 5th or whatever.)

We get the Seattle 4th back with the trade. A 3rd would have been better, but not a 5th as we'd lose the Seattle 4th instead of the Saints 4th.

So if you look at it another way, it would be Malcolm and 3rd for Cooks +4th (Seattle).

 

[The Gr8est]

Wow I love your mentality
Your glass is never half empty is it?

Get thee to a game day thread!

 

[mosslost]

probably get the 32 back, but that is not bad? wtf did we trade for Cooks again?

 

[varjao]

We have one year of Cooks for cheap money and then the option for the 5th year which means we have Cooks for 2 years in a relative low cost, the Saints will have one year of Butler on the cheap or maybe they will settle for an extension from the start, it's obvious for me the Pats will have to give the extra not the Saints.

Both players have the same value, CB's are rare assets but Cooks is one of the best receivers in the league, and Butler, it seems like his perceived value around the league is less than we PatsFans think it is. BB knows the market. If the conditions were the same contract wise, it could be a direct trade one player for the other, given these conditions the Pats would have to throw some change to make it work in my opinion.

 

[Tony2046]

I think BB saw enough tall receivers make plays when Butler was in perfect technique and said nope quick corners are great but now we have these receivers coming out with height and quickness.
My prediction we draft 1 or 2 tall cornerbacks ahead of their draft projection BB has seen enough.

Not sure. I think it had more to do with Butler's negotiations breaking down or not going the way BB wanted them to.

Well I hope Butler ends up getting what he wants.

 

[PatsFan2]

Wow I love your mentality
Your glass is never half empty is it?

I would settle for Cyrus Jones fair catching a punt every time and tell myself that his selection was justified.

 

[DW Toys]

Which is better value?

1 year of MB at 3.9 million per year or

Pick #32 on a rookie contract.

If going all in for 1 more SB..its clearly MB (unless he is so pissed off he does not play well). MB would have HUGE incentive to play great this year for Pats even if he is upset with RFA so he could cash in next year. Personally I would take this option

Over the long term its clearly pick 32, if BB is reasonably certain he can get a starter at that pick.

You have a 17% chance of a rookie starting or making a significant contribution year one versus a valid all pro type CB.
What would your choice be? 17%!!!

For all out there who feel the Draft is the only way, again 17% Cousins, in a three year period of time for a rookie to wind up Pro Bowl, Start , become valuable backups or solid ST contributors versus out of the League or cut.

You need a mix of picks and vets to work in and well valued ready to play Pros. 31% or every NFL Team is made up of UDFA. So no front office is perfect in the Draft room. Haven't a lot of first rounders here have left our building lately?

I will take a solid FA or present proven player as less of a gamble. Rather resign Malcom.
DW Toys

 

[mosslost]

So far, no team has. If he goes to the Saints, and a 1st is involved, it's likely because it was part of an original deal involving swapping Cooks for Butler, and the need to make a deal prior to Cooks bonus coming do meant the teams had to make the deal in two stages.

so we get the 32 back? We can't be getting the 11 can we?

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

I'm in the camp that they were trying to work this from the start and the Patriots will get the 32 back, however, if that is the case I want the third back as well.

I would agree with this

 

[Kargetina]

IDK, although I love Butler and would love to see him stay, replacing him with Gilmore and getting the 11th overall pick might ultimately be an upgrade to the team.

a) We're most likely not getting the 11-th
b) We lost Logan Ryan and we're losing Butler, the two top corners in the team's best defense since 2004.

The secondary was fantastic this year and we completely gutted it for a guy that has never been an All Pro and hasn't played a single high pressure game in his life.

We had the best statistical defense in the league, we won the Super Bowl and Butler made the All-Pro team. Butler had a superior season to Gilmore's by any measurement and standard.

I mean if we bought Sherman, Peters or Talib, i'll understand but Gilmore wasn't even a Top 20 cornerback last year.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

so we get the 32 back? We can't be getting the 11 can we?

How about give us back our 3rd rounder as well.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

a) We're most likely not getting the 11-th
b) We lost Logan Ryan and we're losing Butler, the two top corners in the team's best defense since 2004.

The secondary was fantastic this year and we completely gutted it for a guy that has never been an All Pro and hasn't played a single high pressure game in his life.

We had the best statistical defense in the league, we won the Super Bowl and Butler made the All-Pro team. Butler had a superior season to Gilmore's by any measurement and standard.

How is Gilmore going to be an upgrade? Is he going to become the defensive player of the year?

I mean if we bought Sherman, Peters or Talib, i'll understand but Gilmore wasn't even a Top 20 cornerback last year.

His second half was even better. I think gilmore's a good corner. You have to keep in mind the amount of defensive schemes he has played throughout his career. He excels more in press coverage.

 

[RobertWeathers]

a) We're most likely not getting the 11-th
b) We lost Logan Ryan and we're losing Butler, the two top corners in the team's best defense since 2004.

The secondary was fantastic this year and we completely gutted it for a guy that has never been an All Pro and hasn't played a single high pressure game in his life.

We had the best statistical defense in the league, we won the Super Bowl and Butler made the All-Pro team. Butler had a superior season to Gilmore's by any measurement and standard.

I mean if we bought Sherman, Peters or Talib, i'll understand but Gilmore wasn't even a Top 20 cornerback last year.

Gilmore made the Pro-Bowl last year.