Butler visiting Saints

[PatriotsPimp136]

Between Butler and Cooks tho, Butler is the more valuable player without a doubt.

I agree. They could have gone after another wideout and still traded butler for good value.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

They still have our 3rd rounder. How's that
fair value?

And the Pats have the Saints 4th rounder (well, technically the Seahawks 4th rounder). They would view Cooks + pick 131 = Butler + pick 103.

 

[Froob]

Anybody else read the newest Florio article? Jets could be in deep deep trouble, baked goods are explicitly not allowed to be offered as compensation for unrestricted free agents with less than 8 years of play (has to be active for ten games to count for a year of play).

 

[jrfitz06]

So first I don't understand why people think BB would trade Butler for the 32 pick straight up that's not gonna happen. Why would he give up value, just because BB and Sean Payton are friends that doesn't mean that BB would just say yeah Sean I'll give you less value then the rules say because your such a swell guy.

As we've seen thru the years BB is ruthless when it comes to signing and trading players and building his team. So is BB's heart gonna grow 7 sizes grinch style and all of a sudden put his friendships above doing what's best for the team I don't think so to my real point I only see 4 things that could happen.

1. The saints sign Malcolm Butler to an offer sheet of somewhere between 10-14 APY and we match and we have our secondary locked up for the foreseeable future. (Personally this is what I'm hoping for)

2. The Saints sign Butler to an offer sheet of 15+APY and we don't match and get the #11 pick. (While not my favorite scenario I could live with it either get a stud DE edge guy or a CB to replace Butler while not as good right away he would be under team control for the length of Gilmore contract)

3. MB signs his tender the pats trade him to the saints for close to the value of the #11 pick which would be like the #32 + a 2nd and a 3rd or 32 and a 2nd this year and a second next year or the least likely 32 a next year's first. But the key is that the value would have to come close to the 11 pick if not BB is just handing the Saints extra value for free. (While this is my least favorite option to me this screams of a BB type of move)

4. Nothing happens and MB signs his tender after April 21 and stays on the pats for atleast 1 more year. To the people who think he's gonna holdout, there is no way MB is just gonna throw away 3.3 Million dollars that's more money than hes made in his whole career combined and he knows that is he doesn't sign his tender before the cutoff in June BB will definitely reduce his salary to 660K simply for the fact that he can. (This is my second favorite option because at the very least we have a great secondary for the upcoming season and I think if this happened and MB played his ass off for the season under the tender that BB would sign him to a "Fair" market deal which would be 13-15 APY in 2018)

 

[mosslost]

I think both can be true. The Pats and Saints could have an understanding that the Saints remain interested in trading for Butler, for something roughly equivalent to what they got for Cooks, while it also remains true that the Patriots made the best offer for him.

IMO the problem is not what the two men may have agreed to.. the problem is the unlimited punitive powers that Goodell apparently has. I really have no problem with two coaches making a wink wink type thing. And as other posters have mentioned if this was the Ravens and the Giants the NyFL would not have an inkling of a problem with it. With these two teams?? I can see Goodell being a total ass about it.

 

[mosslost]

So first I don't understand why people think BB would trade Butler for the 32 pick straight up that's not gonna happen. Why would he give up value, just because BB and Sean Payton are friends that doesn't mean that BB would just say yeah Sean I'll give you less value then the rules say because your such a swell guy.

As we've seen thru the years BB is ruthless when it comes to signing and trading players and building his team. So is BB's heart gonna grow 7 sizes grinch style and all of a sudden put his friendships above doing what's best for the team I don't think so to my real point I only see 4 things that could happen.

1. The saints sign Malcolm Butler to an offer sheet of somewhere between 10-14 APY and we match and we have our secondary locked up for the foreseeable future. (Personally this is what I'm hoping for)

2. The Saints sign Butler to an offer sheet of 15+APY and we don't match and get the #11 pick. (While not my favorite scenario I could live with it either get a stud DE edge guy or a CB to replace Butler while not as good right away he would be under team control for the length of Gilmore contract)

3. MB signs his tender the pats trade him to the saints for close to the value of the #11 pick which would be like the #32 + a 2nd and a 3rd or 32 and a 2nd this year and a second next year or the least likely 32 a next year's first. But the key is that the value would have to come close to the 11 pick if not BB is just handing the Saints extra value for free. (While this is my least favorite option to me this screams of a BB type of move)

4. Nothing happens and MB signs his tender after April 21 and stays on the pats for atleast 1 more year. To the people who think he's gonna holdout, there is no way MB is just gonna throw away 3.3 Million dollars that's more money than hes made in his whole career combined and he knows that is he doesn't sign his tender before the cutoff in June BB will definitely reduce his salary to 660K simply for the fact that he can. (This is my second favorite option because at the very least we have a great secondary for the upcoming season and I think if this happened and MB played his ass off for the season under the tender that BB would sign him to a "Fair" market deal which would be 13-15 APY in 2018)

>>So first I don't understand why people think BB would trade Butler for the 32 pick straight up that's not gonna happen.
Sigh... Its part 2 of the Cooks deal if it happens.. Butler for Cooks is the real deal

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

And the Pats have the Saints 4th rounder (well, technically the Seahawks 4th rounder). They would view Cooks + pick 131 = Butler + pick 103.

Still doesn't make sense. I rather have 103 than 131. The saints really are gonna come off well here. They need defensive guys. I still think that offense can be potent. Brees doesn't have much time left.

 

[mosslost]

Duh, Patriots are letting themselves get bent over by the Saints unless they get a massive haul of picks for Butler or #11, which they won't.

Cooks is part of this deal

 

[Ivan]

Between Butler and Cooks tho, Butler is the more valuable player without a doubt.

I disagree but not with the notion that CB is tougher to find and to fill, so in that regard I agree. As far as the players go I think Cooks is a better player than Butler is. That's just my opinion but I think Cooks is an All Pro caliber WR and Butler a Pro Bowl CB.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Duh, Patriots are letting themselves get bent over by the Saints unless they get a massive haul of picks for Butler or #11, which they won't.

Not if you account for Butler being one year away from UFA. It's the main reason why he's likely to be traded in the first place, and will depress anyone's trade value significantly. Geting back exactly what we got for Cooks would be a pretty reasonable deal IMO, even if you don't see the two potential trades as being in any way related.

 

[Joey007]

Why do people keep saying this? The top WR (Brown) makes more APY (17m) than the top corner (Norman - 15APY) and the franchise tag for a WR is 600k MORE than for a CB.

It's all about needs.

Saints are stacked at WR, even without Cooks. But have no talent at CB. Mike Thomas is the real deal, and Snead is pretty good himself.

Butler will make their collective team better than it was with Cooks, because they have been stuck in a rut of having all offense- but no defense- for the last several years.

 

[Marqui]

This is so stupid, Patriots can just keep Butler and franchise him next year and it would effectively be like a 2 year $20M deal. That's fine.

 

[XLIX]

They did not sign the tender in the hope to achieve a long-term deal with NE.

When they start shopping with other teams it's irrelevant.

Hes not going anywhere until NE says so.

Not signing the tender does not change the status of NE's control of the player.

Im getting the sense that you might be missing the nuance of the situation?

I don't think you understand what signing the tender does.

Right now, NE cannot stop him from negotiating with other teams. They also cannot stop him from signing a deal with other teams. If such a deal is signed, NE has 2 options: Match it or let him go for a #1.

If he signs the tender, he gives NE complete control over himself. They don't have to negotiate with any team they don' want to. They don't have to trade him if they don't want to. They get complete, 100% control of a guy with 1 year, $4 million left on his deal.

Thats my point. They are going to talk anyway. All the tender does is protect the player and the team.

At this point of the process, the tender does absolutely nothing to "protect the player" if Butler signs it

At this point, to BB its irrelevant if he signs the tender or not.

It may be irrelevant to BB, but it is NOT irrelevant to Butler. If Butler signs it, his activities with other teams is 100% frozen and EVERYTHING goes through the Patriots' front office.

If Payton wants Malcolm hes going to talk to BB anyway. If Payton wants Malcolm hes going to talk to talk to Malcolm anyway.

If Payton wants Malcolm, and is willing to pay the #11 for him, he doesn't have to say one word to Belichick. All he has to do is sign Butler and force Belichick's hand.

Face it: Signing the tender at this point in the process would be a stupid move for Butler. He loses a ton and gains nothing. Your only reply is he should sign the tender then violate rules against tampering by continuing to talk to other teams, which makes zero sense whatsoever.

 

[PatriotsPimp136]

It's all about needs.

Saints are stacked at WR, even without Cooks. But have no talent at CB. Mike Thomas is the real deal, and Snead is pretty good himself.

Butler will make their collective team better than it was with Cooks, because they have been stuck in a rut of having all offense- but no defense- for the last several years.

And they still keep number 11. I value defense alot more than offense. The nfc south will be very competitive.

 

[Marqui]

Cooks is part of this deal

I know, and it's stupid that he is. This is a big screw up by Bill.

 

[50-yard-line]

It's all about needs.

Saints are stacked at WR, even without Cooks. But have no talent at CB. Mike Thomas is the real deal, and Snead is pretty good himself.

Butler will make their collective team better than it was with Cooks, because they have been stuck in a rut of having all offense- but no defense- for the last several years.

Not what I'm talking about - I've seen it posted twice here that top corners are worth more than top receivers, not team specific comments, just in general.

 

[mosslost]

I know, and it's stupid that he is. This is a big screw up by Bill.

why?

 

[Marqui]

Not if you account for Butler being one year away from UFA. It's the main reason why he's likely to be traded in the first place, and will depress anyone's trade value significantly. Geting back exactly what we got for Cooks would be a pretty reasonable deal IMO, even if you don't see the two potential trades as being in any way related.

Then don't trade Butler. There's no rule forcing the Patriots to trade him. Just keep him this year and go for a repeat then either get a 3rd round comp pick next year or franchise Butler. No need to do the Saints or anyone else any favors.

 

[Deus Irae]

Between Butler and Cooks tho, Butler is the more valuable player without a doubt.

Re-think that in context (i.e. years under contract, others at the position, etc...), and see if you think "without a doubt" still applies.

 

[long distance]

If there's gonna be a move for Butler to NO then SP and BB decided on value already during Cooks deal. How much NO can offer Butler on a tight cap over the next two years is a big Q.

It will be interesting to see how Texan's interest (if honest) figures in SP-BB possible gentlemen's agreement.