PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

The 3-year transition Brady/Garoppollo theory - is there any merit?

Status
Not open for further replies.
1. All of this boils down to the notion that, like so many other theories, it relies on Garoppolo being happy to remain a backup for several more years.

2. What makes you think it will be so easy to sign Garoppolo to a long term deal, even if you franchise him in 2018? If he is a UFA, other teams will be interested.
There's no way he's re-signing if Brady is sticking around. It's absurd for anybody to think that.
 
Regarding Cooks.....it is rare that a WR with the tools BB's values most shakes lose from another team. The shifty / quick separation skill set has been the foundation of NE's passing attack since the Troy Brown era and the Cook trade ensures the continuity of the NE offense going forward. BB saw an opportunity and pounced.

Regarding Gilmore.....I view this long term signing as an opportunity to lock in a talent for a half decade at a time when NE has excess cap space to buy long term stability at a vital position. BB dabbled with Talib, paid up for a year of Revis, and couldn't work a deal with Butler. The #1 CB position is now settled for many years. Given the yearly climb in total cap $$$, the Gilmore contract will look better and better each year....especially since the biggest chunk is payed out in 2017.

Regarding the OP's 3 year QB plan.....I appreciate the effort. My main issue with the proposition is that it doesn't account for JG's mindset. As one follow up post stated, how many years will JG be willing to not play real football. Sooner rather than later, "limbo" will be an unacceptable job status.
 
Here is my summary of the three-year transition theory, with its general premise and key recent moves that make it a reasonable, though not neceassily correct, hypothesis. It's hard to predict the future, even for the Patriots, so I'm not saying they are clairvoyant and anything is set in stone. So many things happen in the NFL - major injuries, shocking surprises, bad evaluations of all types, etc. However, the 3-year theory posits the Patriots are preparing for the most likely events that will happen in the future in order to remain a powerhouse with Brady and a potential powerhouse when he departs.

1. The main premise of the 3-year theory is that Tom Brady's last seasons with the team will be in 2017 and 2018 and Jimmy Garoppollo will be the starter in 2019. Brady is signed through the 2019 season, and here is where the devil is in the details. Brady carries a cap hit of just $7M if released in 2019. That number is $28M in 2017 and $14M in 2018. In other words, moving on from his contract in 2019 would not cripple the franchise other than a speed bump. They could also trade him for other assets. Brady's father has acknowledged that this is going to be a bad ending, with Brady wanting to play longer and the team finding too much risk, at his advanced age, of bipassing a long-term replacement for what may be 1-2 more seasons from Brady at age 43 and 44. Brady's father also referenced that the Patriots found a great young QB in Garoppollo. I believe Adam Schefter has the scoop right that Jimmy Garoppollo will NOT be traded this offseason, despite Mary Kay Cabot's questionable reports that the Patriots are open for business.

2. The fact that Brady's 2018 season could be his last one, based on a contract extension with 2019 providing the team with a relatively small cap hit in releasing him, may not be a coincidence. It lines up exactly with a transition plan with the team's options for Jimmy Garoppollo. The Patriots can franchise Garroppollo in 2018 and sign him to a long term extension for 2019 and beyond. Did you note that in this scenario, Garoppollo would be the starting his long-term deal in the exact same year the Patriots could move on from Brady? At this point, Brady would be 42 and Garoppollo 27. In this scenario, the Patriots fully control the rights to both Brady and Garoppollo.

3. This scenario may make people scoff about the uncomfortable 2018 season, with Brady playing quarterback for less money than his franchised backup. Certainly that would be strange and may lead to some big issues, but is one unorthodox, uncomfortable, and strange season worth having a great QB for the next 10-15 years? In some ways it would be the classic mad scientist Belichick going against all conventional wisdom and Brady once again proving to be the impeccable team player. Of course, Brady might react differently and want to be traded if this happened. I remind you, though, that if Jimmy Garoppollo ever becomes the team's starting QB while Brady is still wanting to play, there's going to be an ugly ending, and there is no way around it. There's no way around it because Brady's contract options and Garoppollo's contract options necessitate a big clash in 2018. Garoppollo is not signing a dumb deal to stay on as backup until Brady decides to quit, so the franchise tag will be necessary to retain him, while Brady is still the starting quarterback. Given Garoppollo's clear ability to play well in this offense, it would be very difficult for the Patriots to get rid of him, after going through a lot of backups over the years who gp ever played close to as good a game as JG played against Arizona and a half against Miami.

4. The Patriots realize that Brady is the greatest quarterback of all-time and playing at an insane level for his age. They have also seen Peyton Manning and Brett Farve recently produce all-world seasons, only to be essentially finished within just one calendar year. Sure, Brady is a unique case with a legendary conditioning program, but every NFL player falls off fast. At some point it will happen to Brady, inevitably. However, their recent moves seem intent on maximizing Brady's championship caliber roster while they still have him playing at a high level, even if it means the rebuilding process with Garoppollo might take some time as they are giving up draft picks to "win now." They are betting on Brady for the next two years. This offseason has been a major departure from their typical standard operating procedure. The Cooks deal in particular lines up well with the two year window theory, as he is likely here for two years before wanting a monster deal. The Gilmore deal might go beyond the Butler vs Gilmore value. It may also have to do with the one in hand, two in the bush saying. They wanted to secure a top cornerback for the next few years, and Gilmore was ready to take the deal, while the timing with Butler did not work out. They may not have wanted to risk losing Butler and being left with no elite corner, a major blow to championship contention.

5. To summarize, the Patriots would be giving Brady two loaded teams in 2017 and 2018 for a chance to add to his legacy but as of now, would find it too risky to count on his level of play continuing until he is 42/43 years old. Though Garoppollo won't be Brady, the vast amount of good/great/elite quarterback play they could get for 10-15 years far outweighs the limited later seasons of Brady's career, and it may even be worth it if Brady is still elite. Again, 15 years of stellar play versus a ticking time bomb for when Father Time inevitably wins.

6. I realize that many of these points are open to counter arguments and criticism for making assumptions. I think it is a reasonable theory - not a certain explanation- on the Patriots recent moves (or non-moves in the case of Jimmy G.) if we look at this in a more big picture way where the puzzle pieces all fit together.
I am leaning toward them keeping Jimmy, but more simplistically (still fits what you are saying though) because Tom is 40 next season, and if Jimmy is really good, he simply is more valuable to hang onto just in case.

I also agree that they may have a tough end in mind for Brady in two years, it is possible anyway.

The only part I disagree with is that they are mortgaging the future to mazimize things for Brady and the Pats window. I still think they are operating while playing chess and will always have an eye on the future, and I think in 2 years, Cooks may want to sign here and if the organization is winning Super Bowls it will always be more attractive to Free Agents looking for a chance. I think these moves are still what Belichick thinks is best for the team, not just for like his or Brady's final two years. No way Belichick wants this thing to become a 5 and 11 team his first year he is gone or is a President of operations or whatever.
 
This was a very well thought out post, but I just think that Brady is a rare exception. Manning fell fast because of a very specific injury. Favre relied heavily on his athleticism and for years contemplated retiring because his body felt so beat up at the end of every season. Brady said he felt great the day after the Super Bowl and was snow skiing a week later. He has been adamant that he wants to play into his mid forties because he truly loves the game and I think he also wants to prove his diet and conditioning programs work. He's obsessed with it. Unless he has a major injury, I think his drop off will be gradual rather than falling off fast.

I still lean towards trading Garroppolo now, but I'm not going to argue with keeping him. Belichick once commented that it would be unfair to the rest of the team if they didn't have a quality backup. I think that's the biggest reason to keep him. This team is going to be stacked and a huge favorite to win the SB. How much is that worth? They could still probably get a 2nd round pick for him after franching him next year while I think they could get a first and second rounder now. So the cost is an early to mid first rounder (Browns #12).

I think that first round pick may be worth holding onto Garroppolo for another season. To still have a chance to contend for a SB if Brady gets hurt with this stacked team. Then they will still have the chance to reassess the situation next year. My guess is that's what Bill is thinking rather than planning a transition.
THIS
 
Brissett has won the Super Bowl every year he's been in the league, why does everyone brush him to the side?

Watch Brissett light the preseason on fire. Then we'll get the JG vs Brissett threads which will include meaty hot takes such as, "Well Dak Prescott lost to Rodgers" or "Brissett is tougher because it's more painful to throw with a Broken thumb than with a sprained shoulder".
 
No way are the Pats going to have about $45 million against the cap for the QB situation. The only way the Pats are going to keep Garoppolo as a back up next year is either franchising him or paying him about $20 million a year to be a back up one year before he starts.

People are insane to think Garoppolo is happy sitting and holding a clipboard for Brady. So to get him to do it, you have to overpay for him to do it.

I can guarantee you one thing. Either Brady or Garoppolo will not be on the Patriots roster in 2018. There is no way to keep both.
 
No way are the Pats going to have about $45 million against the cap for the QB situation. The only way the Pats are going to keep Garoppolo as a back up next year is either franchising him or paying him about $20 million a year to be a back up one year before he starts.

People are insane to think Garoppolo is happy sitting and holding a clipboard for Brady. So to get him to do it, you have to overpay for him to do it.

I can guarantee you one thing. Either Brady or Garoppolo will not be on the Patriots roster in 2018. There is no way to keep both.
Who would want the QB that would be "happy" being a backup somewhere?...they can just get Mark Sanchez.
 
This theory makes to much sense from a Belichick perspective to be entirely wrong. It is exactly the way he thinks, including a year too soon, rather than a year too late.
 
Who would want the QB that would be "happy" being a backup somewhere?...they can just get Mark Sanchez.

The difference is no one is going to have to franchise Mark Sanchez to keep him on their roster in 2018. Say next offseason the Pats don't franchise Garoppolo and the Texans or Broncos or another team a QB away from being a contender offers him $18-19 million a year to start that season, do you really think he will take $10 million in 2018 to be the back up in New England?
 
Here is my summary of the three-year transition theory, with its general premise and key recent moves that make it a reasonable, though not neceassily correct, hypothesis. It's hard to predict the future, even for the Patriots, so I'm not saying they are clairvoyant and anything is set in stone. So many things happen in the NFL - major injuries, shocking surprises, bad evaluations of all types, etc. However, the 3-year theory posits the Patriots are preparing for the most likely events that will happen in the future in order to remain a powerhouse with Brady and a potential powerhouse when he departs.

1. The main premise of the 3-year theory is that Tom Brady's last seasons with the team will be in 2017 and 2018 and Jimmy Garoppollo will be the starter in 2019. Brady is signed through the 2019 season, and here is where the devil is in the details. Brady carries a cap hit of just $7M if released in 2019. That number is $28M in 2017 and $14M in 2018. In other words, moving on from his contract in 2019 would not cripple the franchise other than a speed bump. They could also trade him for other assets. Brady's father has acknowledged that this is going to be a bad ending, with Brady wanting to play longer and the team finding too much risk, at his advanced age, of bipassing a long-term replacement for what may be 1-2 more seasons from Brady at age 43 and 44. Brady's father also referenced that the Patriots found a great young QB in Garoppollo. I believe Adam Schefter has the scoop right that Jimmy Garoppollo will NOT be traded this offseason, despite Mary Kay Cabot's questionable reports that the Patriots are open for business.

2. The fact that Brady's 2018 season could be his last one, based on a contract extension with 2019 providing the team with a relatively small cap hit in releasing him, may not be a coincidence. It lines up exactly with a transition plan with the team's options for Jimmy Garoppollo. The Patriots can franchise Garroppollo in 2018 and sign him to a long term extension for 2019 and beyond. Did you note that in this scenario, Garoppollo would be the starting his long-term deal in the exact same year the Patriots could move on from Brady? At this point, Brady would be 42 and Garoppollo 27. In this scenario, the Patriots fully control the rights to both Brady and Garoppollo.

3. This scenario may make people scoff about the uncomfortable 2018 season, with Brady playing quarterback for less money than his franchised backup. Certainly that would be strange and may lead to some big issues, but is one unorthodox, uncomfortable, and strange season worth having a great QB for the next 10-15 years? In some ways it would be the classic mad scientist Belichick going against all conventional wisdom and Brady once again proving to be the impeccable team player. Of course, Brady might react differently and want to be traded if this happened. I remind you, though, that if Jimmy Garoppollo ever becomes the team's starting QB while Brady is still wanting to play, there's going to be an ugly ending, and there is no way around it. There's no way around it because Brady's contract options and Garoppollo's contract options necessitate a big clash in 2018. Garoppollo is not signing a dumb deal to stay on as backup until Brady decides to quit, so the franchise tag will be necessary to retain him, while Brady is still the starting quarterback. Given Garoppollo's clear ability to play well in this offense, it would be very difficult for the Patriots to get rid of him, after going through a lot of backups over the years who gp ever played close to as good a game as JG played against Arizona and a half against Miami.

4. The Patriots realize that Brady is the greatest quarterback of all-time and playing at an insane level for his age. They have also seen Peyton Manning and Brett Farve recently produce all-world seasons, only to be essentially finished within just one calendar year. Sure, Brady is a unique case with a legendary conditioning program, but every NFL player falls off fast. At some point it will happen to Brady, inevitably. However, their recent moves seem intent on maximizing Brady's championship caliber roster while they still have him playing at a high level, even if it means the rebuilding process with Garoppollo might take some time as they are giving up draft picks to "win now." They are betting on Brady for the next two years. This offseason has been a major departure from their typical standard operating procedure. The Cooks deal in particular lines up well with the two year window theory, as he is likely here for two years before wanting a monster deal. The Gilmore deal might go beyond the Butler vs Gilmore value. It may also have to do with the one in hand, two in the bush saying. They wanted to secure a top cornerback for the next few years, and Gilmore was ready to take the deal, while the timing with Butler did not work out. They may not have wanted to risk losing Butler and being left with no elite corner, a major blow to championship contention.

5. To summarize, the Patriots would be giving Brady two loaded teams in 2017 and 2018 for a chance to add to his legacy but as of now, would find it too risky to count on his level of play continuing until he is 42/43 years old. Though Garoppollo won't be Brady, the vast amount of good/great/elite quarterback play they could get for 10-15 years far outweighs the limited later seasons of Brady's career, and it may even be worth it if Brady is still elite. Again, 15 years of stellar play versus a ticking time bomb for when Father Time inevitably wins.

6. I realize that many of these points are open to counter arguments and criticism for making assumptions. I think it is a reasonable theory - not a certain explanation- on the Patriots recent moves (or non-moves in the case of Jimmy G.) if we look at this in a more big picture way where the puzzle pieces all fit together.

Brady is a ONCE in a lifetime exception.
What he has given to the organization and fans is immeasurable in value.

He should be able to play for as long as he wants even if he SUCKS. He should 1000% retire a patriot and never put on another uniform.


I would not care if after Brady is ready to retire we have no backup quarterback and the patriots suck for another 10 years.

Legends retire on their own terms.

For this reason, I would like to see JG traded now. Otherwise the "myth" of JG will hang over Brady and the team this entire season. I like JG. He may be very good...but sorry he does not deserve to be "hovering" over Tom

If Brady wants to play 10 more years...he plays 10 more years as a Patriot. Now we all know that he is so competitive that if his play ever truly fell off the cliff he would not hang around.

But TB can play as long as he wants in my view.
 
The difference is no one is going to have to franchise Mark Sanchez to keep him on their roster in 2018. Say next offseason the Pats don't franchise Garoppolo and the Texans or Broncos or another team a QB away from being a contender offers him $18-19 million a year to start that season, do you really think he will take $10 million in 2018 to be the back up in New England?
No. I'm agreeing with your point. If JG has the competitive juices we think he has all this trade/tag talk must be killing him.
 
I think being a stater for two more years is a valid theory. If Brady wants to remain a player here or elsewhere that is possible, but as a reserve. It is unlikely any team woul plan on him as a full time starter at age 43 and beyond.
 
Well thought out. I like when this forum can have someone put the time in to present a good devils advocate post so we can all maturely state our thoughts. I had your thinking all along. When BB traded all the early picks this year I stopped trying to over think this subject

Manning and Favre showed signs of demise years before their end. Brady is still playing at a high level. His mobility has seemed to increase. I truly believe he has 3-5 years left. Kraft will not let him be traded. We do not even know if Jimmy is the answer. Small window and got injured right out of the gate.

Why would there be talk of Brady signing an extension if he has two years left on his contract and that would suffice with your theory. They are not going to extend Brady at a team friendly contract then trade him. That would be the ultimate slap in the face. You would let Brady pick his team and contract at that point.

BB will not enter this loaded draft with no picks in the first two rounds. The unknown makes him always want cards to deal. Nobody is going to shell out the picks needed to get Malcom so JG is the answer.

JG was drafted two year too early or he may have been the heir
 
JG was drafted two year too early or he may have been the heir

Most likely he was drafted as the heir assuming Brady's sun was setting. That has not happened yet. He's not the first and won't be the last guy to be drafted for that reason where things haven't gone as planned since.

He may still be the heir and his start was sort of promising but he hasn't proven squat yet.... and Brady is still here and stronger than ever. Time will tell.
 
Don't understand the precise cap #s for JAG in 2018. Miguel has said that any deal would put something over a quarter of the cap into just the QB position alone which he feels is untenable as Brady has agreed to the philosophy that the QB eats 1/8th of the cap in order to field a contender. If I misinterpreted what he said, my bad.
 
Here is my summary of the three-year transition theory, with its general premise and key recent moves that make it a reasonable, though not neceassily correct, hypothesis. It's hard to predict the future, even for the Patriots, so I'm not saying they are clairvoyant and anything is set in stone. So many things happen in the NFL - major injuries, shocking surprises, bad evaluations of all types, etc. However, the 3-year theory posits the Patriots are preparing for the most likely events that will happen in the future in order to remain a powerhouse with Brady and a potential powerhouse when he departs.

1. The main premise of the 3-year theory is that Tom Brady's last seasons with the team will be in 2017 and 2018 and Jimmy Garoppollo will be the starter in 2019. Brady is signed through the 2019 season, and here is where the devil is in the details. Brady carries a cap hit of just $7M if released in 2019. That number is $28M in 2017 and $14M in 2018. In other words, moving on from his contract in 2019 would not cripple the franchise other than a speed bump. They could also trade him for other assets. Brady's father has acknowledged that this is going to be a bad ending, with Brady wanting to play longer and the team finding too much risk, at his advanced age, of bipassing a long-term replacement for what may be 1-2 more seasons from Brady at age 43 and 44. Brady's father also referenced that the Patriots found a great young QB in Garoppollo. I believe Adam Schefter has the scoop right that Jimmy Garoppollo will NOT be traded this offseason, despite Mary Kay Cabot's questionable reports that the Patriots are open for business.

2. The fact that Brady's 2018 season could be his last one, based on a contract extension with 2019 providing the team with a relatively small cap hit in releasing him, may not be a coincidence. It lines up exactly with a transition plan with the team's options for Jimmy Garoppollo. The Patriots can franchise Garroppollo in 2018 and sign him to a long term extension for 2019 and beyond. Did you note that in this scenario, Garoppollo would be the starting his long-term deal in the exact same year the Patriots could move on from Brady? At this point, Brady would be 42 and Garoppollo 27. In this scenario, the Patriots fully control the rights to both Brady and Garoppollo.

3. This scenario may make people scoff about the uncomfortable 2018 season, with Brady playing quarterback for less money than his franchised backup. Certainly that would be strange and may lead to some big issues, but is one unorthodox, uncomfortable, and strange season worth having a great QB for the next 10-15 years? In some ways it would be the classic mad scientist Belichick going against all conventional wisdom and Brady once again proving to be the impeccable team player. Of course, Brady might react differently and want to be traded if this happened. I remind you, though, that if Jimmy Garoppollo ever becomes the team's starting QB while Brady is still wanting to play, there's going to be an ugly ending, and there is no way around it. There's no way around it because Brady's contract options and Garoppollo's contract options necessitate a big clash in 2018. Garoppollo is not signing a dumb deal to stay on as backup until Brady decides to quit, so the franchise tag will be necessary to retain him, while Brady is still the starting quarterback. Given Garoppollo's clear ability to play well in this offense, it would be very difficult for the Patriots to get rid of him, after going through a lot of backups over the years who gp ever played close to as good a game as JG played against Arizona and a half against Miami.

4. The Patriots realize that Brady is the greatest quarterback of all-time and playing at an insane level for his age. They have also seen Peyton Manning and Brett Farve recently produce all-world seasons, only to be essentially finished within just one calendar year. Sure, Brady is a unique case with a legendary conditioning program, but every NFL player falls off fast. At some point it will happen to Brady, inevitably. However, their recent moves seem intent on maximizing Brady's championship caliber roster while they still have him playing at a high level, even if it means the rebuilding process with Garoppollo might take some time as they are giving up draft picks to "win now." They are betting on Brady for the next two years. This offseason has been a major departure from their typical standard operating procedure. The Cooks deal in particular lines up well with the two year window theory, as he is likely here for two years before wanting a monster deal. The Gilmore deal might go beyond the Butler vs Gilmore value. It may also have to do with the one in hand, two in the bush saying. They wanted to secure a top cornerback for the next few years, and Gilmore was ready to take the deal, while the timing with Butler did not work out. They may not have wanted to risk losing Butler and being left with no elite corner, a major blow to championship contention.

5. To summarize, the Patriots would be giving Brady two loaded teams in 2017 and 2018 for a chance to add to his legacy but as of now, would find it too risky to count on his level of play continuing until he is 42/43 years old. Though Garoppollo won't be Brady, the vast amount of good/great/elite quarterback play they could get for 10-15 years far outweighs the limited later seasons of Brady's career, and it may even be worth it if Brady is still elite. Again, 15 years of stellar play versus a ticking time bomb for when Father Time inevitably wins.

6. I realize that many of these points are open to counter arguments and criticism for making assumptions. I think it is a reasonable theory - not a certain explanation- on the Patriots recent moves (or non-moves in the case of Jimmy G.) if we look at this in a more big picture way where the puzzle pieces all fit together.
Tom Brady isn't going to be cut.
BB isn't going to pay a backup 24 mill on a tag.
 
Pats win the next sb and Brady's done

That's the plan
 
Can you imagine if Brady went to an NFC team and it was Brady vs BB and Patriots in the SB? There might never be so much angst over a SB. All the haters would know who to hate and Pats fans would have different level of internal conflict over the matchup.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Former Patriots Super Bowl MVP Set to Announce Pick During Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Mike Vrabel’s Media Statement on Tuesday 4/21
MORSE: What Will the Patriots Do in the Draft?
MORSE: Patriots Prospects and 30 Visits
Patriots News 04-19, Countdown To Draft Day
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 6 – A Week Before the Draft
TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/13
Patriots News 04-12, What To Watch For In The NFL Draft
MORSE: Pre-Draft Patriots News and Notes
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
MORSE: Patriots Mock Draft 5
Mark Morse
2 weeks ago
Back
Top