I don't get why people think the Pats can offer Garoppolo money to sit & wait for Brady to retire

[XLIX]

Next year's money is part of the hypothetical under discussion. Yawn.

No fooling, but it is stupid to say "we can franchise Garoppolo next year which means we have him for the next 2 years at $24 million total which is a good deal."

It's not a 2 year deal, the cap won't look at it as a 2 year deal, and once 2017 is over, the past is the past. In the 2018 offseason you aren't going to look at what Garoppolo made in 2017 to determine whether or not you should franchise him. You want the Patriots to franchise him next year and say "oh well hey, he was only $12 million per year for 2017 and 2018" which is a stupid way of looking at things.

Let's take your ridiculous logic one step further: We could franchise Garoppolo for 2018, 2019 and 2020 paying a total of $84 million. But hey we already had him for 4 seasons at roughly $4 million total. So that's 7 years of Jimmy Garoppolo at just over $12 million per year. What a deal!!!!

 

[Thelonious]

That's really the bottom line. Due to $$$$...

If Garoppolo is on the roster in 2018, Brady will not be.
If Brady is on the roster in 2018, Garoppolo will not be.

Choose.

I think that this is the most likely outcome, to be honest, and I think Bill knows it.

 

[reflexblue]

No one WANTS to. But view the matter in context. No one want to be stuck with a needle, but you might want to have that vaccine.

They will not wast 20-25 million a year for JG to sit around waiting for brady to retire. If you believe they will you haven't been following this team.

 

[Thelonious]

No fooling, but it is stupid to say "we can franchise Garoppolo next year which means we have him for the next 2 years at $24 million total which is a good deal."

It's not a 2 year deal, the cap won't look at it as a 2 year deal, and once 2017 is over, the past is the past. In the 2018 offseason you aren't going to look at what Garoppolo made in 2017 to determine whether or not you should franchise him. You want the Patriots to franchise him next year and say "oh well hey, he was only $12 million per year for 2017 and 2018" which is a stupid way of looking at things.

Let's take your ridiculous logic one step further: We could franchise Garoppolo for 2018, 2019 and 2020 paying a total of $84 million. But hey we already had him for 4 seasons at roughly $4 million total. So that's 7 years of Jimmy Garoppolo at just over $12 million per year. What a deal!!!!

My "logic" "taken one step further" is no longer my logic. Reductio ad absurdum is far more often a fallacy than a legitimate mode of argument, as you amply demonstrate. (Sorry, taught philosophy for 25 years and have grown irremediably insufferable over that time.)

I see that I have at last secured clonamery's agreement on something. Perhaps if he breathes for a few more minutes into his paper bag he will see the light and embrace my views entirely.

 

[Thelonious]

They will not wast 20-25 million a year for JG to sit around waiting for brady to retire. If you believe they will you haven't been following this team.

I believe they should, and might. (and the figures you cite are erroneous, see above)

 

[Deus Irae]

They will not wast 20-25 million a year for JG to sit around waiting for brady to retire. If you believe they will you haven't been following this team.

Keeping Steve Young around, while Joe Montana is still capable of being Joe Montana, is not a waste of money. The question is whether or not the Patriots believe JAG can be Steve Young.

 

[reflexblue]

Keeping Steve Young around, while Joe Montana is still capable of being Joe Montana, is not a waste of money. The question is whether or not JAG can be Steve Young.

There was no salary cap, or franchise tag and players got paid a lot less then. If this was a matter of a year or so that would be one thing, but the way brady takes care of himself it could be three or four years until he retires. And on top of that would they pay JG that kind of money on 6 quaters of play? I know he played really well, but stilll its a small number to if your spending appx. $40-50 million franchising him for two years.

 

[Deus Irae]

There was no salary cap, or franchise tag and players got paid a lot less then.

The Patriots have the cap room.

If this was a matter of a year or so that would be one thing, but the way brady takes care of himself it could be three or four years until he retires.

The Patriots can, theoretically, hold JAG for 4 years.

And on top of that would they pay JG that kind of money on 6 quaters of play? I know he played really well, but stilll its a small number to if your spending appx. $40-50 million franchising him for two years.

That's the "Do the Patriots think he's Steve Young?" question.

 

[Thelonious]

Keeping Steve Young around, while Joe Montana is still capable of being Joe Montana, is not a waste of money. The question is whether or not the Patriots believe JAG can be Steve Young.

This makes sense to me. (I'm a fan of Marcus Aurelius as well, and even more of Epictetus. Gandhi I can take or leave: I thought the Raj quite picturesque and on balance of benefit to India, witness, ironically enough: Gandhi!)

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The Patriots can, theoretically, hold JAG for 4 years.

3 sure, but how 4? I thought players can only be franchised twice. So:
2017 - last year of contract
2018 - franchise
2019 - franchise

How would they hold him in 2020?

 

[luuked]

Take JG's salary this coming year, add a reasonable estimate as to the franchise number the year following, divide by two. There is your per-year number for a quality backup and heir-apparent. It's not a number that will induce fiscal joy, certainly, but it isn't 20 million either, and as a number representing a worst-case scenario - assuming that is that he will not get the job through injury or declining performance on the part of Brady - it isn't all that awful a number.

Will not happen. If you seriously believe there is a chance Jimmy will be the QB here then just let me know so I can add you to my ignore list. This saves us both a lot of trouble. The only way Jimmy becomes starter here is if Brady suffers a sason-ending injury (which then most probably is career ending).

 

[reflexblue]

The Patriots have the cap room.



The Patriots can, theoretically, hold JAG for 4 years.




That's the "Do the Patriots think he's Steve Young?" question.

I think by playing so well brady has created a quandary. Hes player better now than when he was younger and the way he can take a hit at his age and get right up hes like Gumby, just really flexible. I'm pretty sure no one in the front office thought he could play at that level at his age, but that could end at any time. Back to the question. The pats have the cap room but thats to much money, but i guess they could cut brady if they felt they needed to move on because of all the money tied up, but i don't think they woeld do that to brady... And Steve young was never payed like a starter from what i remember.

 

[kidd]

patriots were uncharacteristic in free agency...were they going all in for Brady or setting up for Jimmy? Went after deep threat guy when brady is not much of deep thrower.. went after Best Corner in the market and not getting back with best Value. THEY PAID HIM..they have never done that before . Are they setting up for Jimmy cuz Jimmy cant win it byhimself like brady in his early carreer.Setting jimmy to be successful in his early carreer?it can go either way i feel.

 

[borg]

This is all so from JG's perspective, but none of it need matter from the Patriots' perspective. I do not believe JG's level of personal satisfaction and fulfillment must or will drive Bill's decision-making.

BB is always making team decisions based on a player's level of personal satisfaction.
Adelius Thomas was a locker room lawyer and malcontent....BB released him.
Randy Moss' contract clamoring expedited his exit.
Jones and Collins mindset were likely factors in their departures

Furthermore.....I find it interesting that no poster has wanted to discuss the locker room effect that franchising/signing a backup QB to 8 figure salaries would cause. BB goes out of his way to avoid such distractions...not initiating the biggest albatross contract ....while pitching to the other 52 players about team friendly contracts and sacrifice to ensure winning ways.
I also can't imagine JG would want to carry the responsibility of being burdensome cap weight and an easily identifiable target of blame if team fortunes reversed.

 

[Thelonious]

I think by playing so well brady has created a quandary. Hes player better now than when he was younger and the way he can take a hit at his age and get right up hes like Gumby, just really flexible. I'm pretty sure no one in the front office thought he could play at that level at his age, but that could end at any time. Back to the question. The pats have the cap room but thats to much money, but i guess they could cut brady if they felt they needed to move on because of all the money tied up, but i don't think they woeld do that to brady... And Steve young was never payed like a starter from what i remember.

Lol. Counting on Bill's impulse to emotional nurturance might be a thin reed upon which to hang predictions as to what he might do.

 

[Deus Irae]

3 sure, but how 4? I thought players can only be franchised twice. So:
2017 - last year of contract
2018 - franchise
2019 - franchise

How would they hold him in 2020?

Can a player be given the franchise tag in consecutive years?

Yes, but it’s a costly move for teams. For a player to be given the tag in two straight years — as could possibly happen to Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins — a team has to pay him 120 percent of his previous salary. Cousins, for instance, will get a raise from $19.95 million to $23.94 million if he plays another season under the franchise tag.

If a team wants to franchise a player in three straight years, it would have to pay him 144 percent of his previous salary

It’s NFL franchise tag season. What exactly does that mean?


For the record, I do not see this as the avenue the Patriots will go down. I'm just noting it as a theoretical possibility.

 

[Thelonious]

BB is always making team decisions based on a player's level of personal satisfaction.
Adelius Thomas was a locker room lawyer and malcontent....BB released him.
Randy Moss' contract clamoring expedited his exit.
Jones and Collins mindset were likely factors in their departures

Furthermore.....I find it interesting that no poster has wanted to discuss the locker room effect that franchising/signing a backup QB to 8 figure salaries would cause. BB goes out of his way to avoid such distractions...not initiating in the biggest albatross contract ....while pitching to the other 52 players about team friendly contracts and sacrifice to ensure winning ways.
I also can't imagine JG would want to carry the responsibility of being burdensome cap weight and an easily identifiable target of blame if team fortunes reversed.

Your 4 examples do not seem relevant to me. These were problems of attitude and BEHAVIOR which represented a threat, potential or actual, to performance. That is different than basing decisions on a player's happiness. Unhappy players are QUITE capable of performing well: some likely find discontentment quite motivating: "I'll show you." "I'm gonna make myself so valuable by playing well that somebody will buy my way out of this heartless hellhole." While I do see that "problems in the locker room" can be real problems, I do not see how a decision to keep around a valuable young quarterback at a salary averaged over two years, say, at a modestly elevated rate (not elevated AT ALL if one year!), would cause such problems. If so, tough: get rid of THAT guy.

 

[Thelonious]

Will not happen. If you seriously believe there is a chance Jimmy will be the QB here then just let me know so I can add you to my ignore list. This saves us both a lot of trouble. The only way Jimmy becomes starter here is if Brady suffers a sason-ending injury (which then most probably is career ending).

There is a chance. Bye.

Take me off ignore when he gets the job.

 

[IllegalContact]

What I don't get is the hardon people get over whatever draft picks the pats might get for trading him

Starting QB is 40......it doesn't matter how much you want to believe he's got 3-4 more years, you'd have to be a certifiable moron to not have a workable qb on the bench....the same kind of moron who would complain about a lack of a backup when said 40 year old has a problem

 

[Thelonious]

What I don't get is the hardon people get over whatever draft picks the pats might get for trading him

Starting QB is 40......it doesn't matter how much you want to believe he's got 3-4 more years, you'd have to be a certifiable moron to not have a workable qb on the bench....the same kind of moron who would complain about a lack of a backup when said 40 year old has a problem

This is right on the money, for my money (and Kraft's, I reckon)