Pats not trading Garoppolo - Schefter

[PatsWickedPissah]

and next year is not can't miss for Brady either

But it IS can't miss for JAG so we should eschew say the #12 pick (sorry Ken, just debating) & keep him. Riiiiight!

 

[Huckleberry1]

I am being realistic. If a team is stupid enough to offer a first round pick for a JG... take it and run.

If my team got a JG for a first rounder I'd want heads to roll.

I disagree on this. If nothing else Garrapolo has shown he can handle the speed of the game, and imo that us one of the most important ability's for any NFL QB. I think the value varies by franchise as a number of other factors come into play. For the Browns I think trading for Garrapolo is a really smart move, as they are loaded with young players, loaded with draft picks, and loaded with cap space. The Browns have repeatedly missed on high draft picks at QB, and at some point they have to start winning games. If they can hold onto their #1 overall and get Garrapolo then that's a great leap forward for them, it gives them a real foundation to work with. To give up the 12 they have to believe Garrapolo is the real deal, so giving up an additional high pick is not that high a price to pay for a player you believe will turn the franchise around?

The equationnis different for other teams but the Browns have all sorts of capital to utilize, and paying the price for Garrapolo makes sense for that organization. I think they are trying to resist the Patriots squeezing them, but ultimately they will fold and give the Patriots most but not all the Patriots want. Best case scenario for the Patriots imo is the #12 and a 2nd that can become a 1st round pick next year.

 

[Ring 6]

In fact based on what we know and have seen so far I wouldn't be surprised if JG is a journeyman backup like Hoyer, Cassel, et al in a few years. I think that's a much more likely outcome than seeing him become a superstar.

Think teams want to give up a first for that? Nah. If they do... take it and run!

From what we have seen Jimmy g has promise. The problem is how much we have seen.
Let's not forget that before the season started people were praying we could go 2-2 with Jimmy and AFTER Arizona people mostly still felt 2-2 would be great.
So he played well vs Miami. But it was less than a half. In fact it was 3 great drives of 15/18/229 followed by 3 drives of 3/8/23.

It was 3 really great drives. It was a decent game vs Arizona.
It's not enough to conclude greatness.

I think there are a lot of reasons to be hopeful about Jimmy but just not enough play to have any certainty.

 

[XLIX]

But no team interested in JG is going to negotiate in the media. Just about every deal the Pats ever do, from Mingo, to Van Noy, to Collins came with ZERO rumors in the media prior to the trade. Why would JG be any different.

Because there's more media attention on a potential franchise QB than there was on Barkevious Minho.

 

[varjao]

Matt Flynn had a great game against the 14-2 2010 Pats and where is he now? That's almost as small a sample size as JG has. Remember that JG had no tape on him either.

Not saying JG can't become great just saying the Pats should be thrilled if a team is dumb enough to part with their first round pick for a guy like JG given what we know of him so far.

I knew the Matt Flynn example would eventually come up, it's weird no one on the media is bringing this to light, but anyway that was 6 years ago, it was a different market and Matt Flynn actually got a contract (I don't remember if he was a FA or if a trade happened) from Seattle to be the starter but he got outplayed by Russell Wilson in training camp, a legit QB and SB champion. Pete Carroll made the right choice to go with the rookie QB and surround him with talent and they started their run right there, the Seahawks were a joke in the years before.

That game against the Patriots he did well but that 2010 defense was trash and if I'm not mistaken the Patriots only started to play well in the second half of that game. It was not a big thing, not like JimmyG wins. The game Flynn threw 5 TD's was the one who caught the attention of GMs. He threw 5 (or 6) TD's and had a solid game, there are QB's who can't pass for 2 TD's per game consistently, that is the case today and certainly was back then (and the league had much better QB play in 2010 than 2016) so any QB who shows something is worth taking a risk.

I try to see this situation as investments, QB's are investments and GM's need to take risks, sometimes they will hit their faces in a wall sometimes they will profit. A promising QB is worth a 1st round pick, specially in a draft so poor for QBs like the next one.

 

[IllegalContact]

But it IS can't miss for JAG so we should eschew say the #12 pick (sorry Ken, just debating) & keep him. Riiiiight!

gonna laugh at you when brady is gone and JG is tearing it up somewhere else

 

[Froob]

What round grade does Polian have on Garopollo?

 

[sb1]

I knew the Matt Flynn example would eventually come up, it's weird no one on the media is bringing this to light, but anyway that was 6 years ago, it was a different market and Matt Flynn actually got a contract (I don't remember if he was a FA or if a trade happened) from Seattle to be the starter but he got outplayed by Russell Wilson in training camp, a legit QB and SB champion. Pete Carroll made the right choice to go with the rookie QB and surround him with talent and they started their run right there, the Seahawks were a joke in the years before.

That game against the Patriots he did well but that 2010 defense was trash and if I'm not mistaken the Patriots only started to play well in the second half of that game. It was not a big thing, not like JimmyG wins. The game Flynn threw 5 TD's was the one who caught the attention of GMs. He threw 5 (or 6) TD's and had a solid game, there are QB's who can't pass for 2 TD's per game consistently, that is the case today and certainly was back then (and the league had much better QB play in 2010 than 2016) so any QB who shows something is worth taking a risk.

I try to see this situation as investments, QB's are investments and GM's need to take risks, sometimes they will hit their faces in a wall sometimes they will profit. A promising QB is worth a 1st round pick, specially in a draft so poor for QBs like the next one.

Good points.

I just used Flynn to point out the danger of jumping to conclusions about a guy based on a really small sample size. Very true re the 2010 Pats defense but the Cardinals D wasn't great either.

I guess for me I would be very unhappy about my own team giving up a first rounder for a 25 year old from a team not known for developing QB talent who may be promising but who hasn't proven anything in the league to date. The fact they want to trade him would give me some pause.

 

[sb1]

From what we have seen Jimmy g has promise. The problem is how much we have seen.
Let's not forget that before the season started people were praying we could go 2-2 with Jimmy and AFTER Arizona people mostly still felt 2-2 would be great.
So he played well vs Miami. But it was less than a half. In fact it was 3 great drives of 15/18/229 followed by 3 drives of 3/8/23.

It was 3 really great drives. It was a decent game vs Arizona.
It's not enough to conclude greatness.

I think there are a lot of reasons to be hopeful about Jimmy but just not enough play to have any certainty.

I agree. Honestly it felt to me like the Dolphins had started to figure him out. He started 9 of 10 then went only 9 of his next 17. The fact he has 8 sacks in 94 pass attempts isn't wonderful either.

 

[IllegalContact]

Good points.

I just used Flynn to point out the danger of jumping to conclusions about a guy based on a really small sample size. Very true re the 2010 Pats defense but the Cardinals D wasn't great either.

I guess for me I would be very unhappy about my own team giving up a first rounder for a 25 year old from a team not known for developing QB talent who may be promising but who hasn't proven anything in the league to date. The fact they want to trade him would give me some pause.

who said they want to trade him?

 

[sb1]

I disagree on this. If nothing else Garrapolo has shown he can handle the speed of the game, and imo that us one of the most important ability's for any NFL QB. I think the value varies by franchise as a number of other factors come into play. For the Browns I think trading for Garrapolo is a really smart move, as they are loaded with young players, loaded with draft picks, and loaded with cap space. The Browns have repeatedly missed on high draft picks at QB, and at some point they have to start winning games. If they can hold onto their #1 overall and get Garrapolo then that's a great leap forward for them, it gives them a real foundation to work with. To give up the 12 they have to believe Garrapolo is the real deal, so giving up an additional high pick is not that high a price to pay for a player you believe will turn the franchise around?

The equationnis different for other teams but the Browns have all sorts of capital to utilize, and paying the price for Garrapolo makes sense for that organization. I think they are trying to resist the Patriots squeezing them, but ultimately they will fold and give the Patriots most but not all the Patriots want. Best case scenario for the Patriots imo is the #12 and a 2nd that can become a 1st round pick next year.

It may be...but I'd much rather see it be them taking that chance than us

The Pats will be too happy to take advantage of that as they should be.

 

[IllegalContact]

What round grade does Polian have on Garopollo?

Bill Polian Says Tom Brady, Jimmy Garoppolo Among Top QB Prospects Colts Scouted

 

[sb1]

who said they want to trade him?

This topic.

IMO the heir to Brady is not on the roster.

 

[IllegalContact]

It may be...but I'd much rather see it be them taking that chance than us

The Pats will be too happy to take advantage of that as they should be.

are you one of these people who is going to stop following the pats after brady is gone?

how's your pink hat?

 

[IllegalContact]

This topic.

IMO the heir to Brady is not on the roster.

the topic says 'not trading'

who on the pats said they want to trade him? or is this your 'expertise' reading between the lines again?

 

[sb1]

are you one of these people who is going to stop following the pats after brady is gone?

how's your pink hat?

I doubt that as I've been a fan for much longer.

Your opinion on what is realistic is irrelevant. I'll keep being so.

 

[sb1]

the topic says 'not trading'

who on the pats said they want to trade him? or is this your 'expertise' reading between the lines again?

This topic says the word trade, therefore this is relevant to the topic.

If they trade him get that first rounder if they can and be happy they got anything close to that.

If they don't he is gone after next year and they at least get a 3rd rounder.

 

[IllegalContact]

This topic says the word trade, therefore this is relevant to the topic.

If they trade him get that first rounder if they can and be happy they got anything close to that.

If they don't he is gone after next year and they at least get a 3rd rounder.

the pats hold the rights via tag

trading him for a 1st rounder doesn't do much to help the team and brady win an SB in 2017 and a viable future QB is much more important than an unquantifiable draft pick

 

[Ring 6]

I agree. Honestly it felt to me like the Dolphins had started to figure him out. He started 9 of 10 then went only 9 of his next 17. The fact he has 8 sacks in 94 pass attempts isn't wonderful either.

Qbs are not evenly consistent throughout a game, so 'figuring him out' isn't really an argument.
Same with sacks. There just isn't enough playing time to see, and frankly, the first game and a half of a season doesn't tell you the things you need to know when judging an elite QB. You have to see that over time. Any QB in the NFL can throw a pretty pass to a wide open receiver. Its when you are beaten up, struggling, the rest of the team is having a crappy day and you need to carry them, and most importantly how you play in the post-season that really need to be seen.
I'll put it this way. I see much good and little bad in what Jimmy G has done, but we haven't scratched the surface of what you need to see to properly evaluate.

 

[sb1]

the pats hold the rights via tag

trading him for a 1st rounder doesn't do much to help the team and brady win an SB in 2017 and a viable future QB is much more important than an unquantifiable draft pick

You don't think the Pats could draft some immediate help at TE or a pass rusher with that extra pick? I think those will help our 2017 chances for sure.