On to 2017 . premature/overdue . thread

[BobDigital]

Look who's happy to jump the gun ..

0-0? All down hill from there for them.

 

[BobDigital]

Harmon
Ryan
Bennett
Branch
Blount
Hightower
Butler
Vollmer
Floyd
Sheard
Long

Any others of consequence?

Hightower and Butler will be back next year 1 way or another.

The only guys I worry about losing/replacing are Branch(hope we keep him), Bennett(need to replace him), Ryan and Harmon.

Everyone else IMO is easily replaceable. Long did well and be nice to have him back but he is not special. Floyd/Vollmer/Sheard/Blount really had no impact this post season.

It is just Branch/Bennett/Ryan/Harmon who worry me as far as losing something.

I think Branch comes back. I hope anyway.

Bennett is 100% gone.

Ryan/Harmon probably gone. The way this D played this concerns me. I really want to keep the pieces of this young unit together if possible. If either plays ball (particularly Ryan) I'd like to sign him and run with a just as good or better unit next year. We held the Falcons to 21 points. Why not try to keep it together?

 

[Keyser Söze]

If we get an extra first for Jimmy. I want Howard bad in the draft.

 

[bormio]

We are 5:1 picks to win next year. Pretty good since we were a 199:1 pick with 21 minutes remaining last night.

 

[long distance]

Reclamation anyone?



EDIT: Probably not

 

[long distance]

BIG news if true.. Would be huge for this transitional offseason on D after the 2016 shocking reshuffles

 

[long distance]

I am not saying off season and FA don't matter but they are easy to prepare for and accomplish quickly. FA you have your targets and do the best you can. Make sure Butler/Hightower don't walk which is entirely in their power and work out the rest.

They have to play catch up on the draft surely but after that it isn't like they are behind anyone else in prep. There is little to prep for as teams are still forming and you don't even know what you will face yet.

One more reason is this:



The other reason for extreme urgency this year is the Jimmy G situation. BB would like to be clear about it before FA starts march 9th .. because it affects so many things going forward re. roster..

 

[long distance]

That means:
RB Gaffney, FB G Gronkowski
WR Lucien, DeAndrew White
OL Barker, Douglas, Farris
DL Hamilton, Kilgo
LB Bates

Still could be around 70M to spend with Vollmer retiring, Danny restructuring + some credit Pats are due from the league if I understood Miguel correctly..

 

[rochrist]

Does Tyrod Taylor now have the keys to the whole Bills Twitter account?.....

As far I can tell, he doesn't even have the key to the locker room anymore.

 

[rochrist]

You're massively missing the mark on Ryan. He's as important to this defense as Butler.

Chung too.

 

[Pats1989]

Bennett will want a big payday. Not sure if we give it to him.

I'd sign Hightower to a 6 year/90 million dollar contract.

 

[long distance]

Here a great table by Miguel. BB tends to have a balance budget by positions..

 

[patfanken]

Some basic thoughts:

1. I think these are the major FA's we have on the team

Harmon
Ryan
Bennett
Branch
Blount
Hightower
Butler
Vollmer
Floyd
Sheard
Long
Mingo?
Van Noy?

2. We have 60-70MM in cap space (3rd highest # in the league), and no longer have to resign Collins and CJones. Plus with a few selected cuts we can add even more. So we really can sign all these guys back and still have room left over to still be a player in FA. And we know we won't be signing all of them back.

3. For everyone we don't sign we should have enough cap space to go into FA and sign a resonably decent replacement.

4. This draft will be very deep in the positions we could possibly need help.

5. We will add either mid round first rounder or higher if the bidding war for Garapolo goes as I see it, OR a high 2nd rounder this year and a first next year. If you can't do better than that, then I might keep him. because this team would still be a SB contender with either Brady or JG (though Brady makes our chances better)

6. Lets go down the list"
a. Harmon - He's currently the #3 Safety who's got more value to us than other teams quite frankly. I'm not sure how much he's worth to another team he had an 1.8MM cap hit this year. I might go as high as $3.2MM per year on a 3-4 year deal to keep him. Or could Ebner be ready to get time as the #3 S next year, or what about Richardson.

b. Ryan. There is no way Ryan gets a 10MM/yr contract, but it could be in the area, and it is certainly going to be a lot more than the $1.8 he cost this year. I'm thinking S7-9MM/yr. Again I see him being more valuable in our system than on another team. This will be the most interesting to watch

c. Bennett is also be interesting. He's a 30 year old TE who had a productive year on a great team, so who is going to pay this guy over $8MM/yr on a long term deal (3-4 yr deal). He cost $5MM this season. I'd set his value at around $7MM on a 3 year deal with half guaranteed) Then he can test his theory that someone will overpay him, and come back to him when he finds out the truth. He'd be great WITH Gronk in the offense, and great Gronk insurance when he isn't.

d. Branch - We paid Branch $2.7MM to be one of the best and most reliable DT's in the league. He certainly deserves a raise. But God the guy is 32 now at a position where players in their 30's age fast. I'd pay him a bit more on a one year deal than on a multi year deal. He's another one of those great teammates and gets it, despite being a reported serial dancer. I would reward him with a one year deal up to $4MM

e. Blount - This is hard one for me. He's been good for us and carried a heavy load for us during the first part of the season. 18 TD's and over 1100 yds is a good year for any RB. He's not an elite guy, but a great value at $1MM/year. He too deserves a raise, and I'd give him one up to $2MM/yr. BTW - my lasting memory of Blount was that he was the first player to go to Brady while he was being surrounded by those mediot parasites. They all clearly love him. Cutting him when he isn't making much would send a bad message to the lockerroom.

f. Hightower - He's another guy I think has more value to the Pats than anyother team. He's a great leader, a great communicator. He's the kind of player who isn't going to have great stats, but makes all the players around him better. You paid McCourty and he's been worth it. You pay Hightower too, maybe not at the top of the market, but damned close.

g. Butler - Contrary to what Felger would like you to believe, Butler is NOT going to get paid less than million next year. With a first round tender IIRC he'll get around $5MM as a RFA and be free next year. It's not top end CB money, but it isn't just pocket change either. In an ideal world they's work out some kind of short term deal where Malcom can make more the the $5MM but less than market value. Like a bridge deal to FA. No one fits the patriot way better than Malcolm. Tough dependable, and severely competitive. No question he will be here next year. Only the price is in question. Also this is one of those sending the right message to the locker room. And you don't want to resign Ryan and have him making a lot more than Butler. That WOULD be a problem.

h. Volmer - I read where Volmer was looking as skinny as Matt Light. I think he's done, and Cannon's success this year would mean he'd likely be back up. I don't think he'd come back for back up money. Not with his back history.

i. Floyd- If he wants to come back I'd give him a deal non-guaranteed deal or guarantee just a million or so, and give him insentives that can raise that up to $7MM (what he got this year) if he plays at a #1 WR level. Then at THAT point he's a rehabbed FA with a Pats seal of approval, or if not he's can be cut at a low cost. Good for us, because we get a remarkable talent for at least a year, and good for him because he can rehab a badly torn rep and make decent money if he plays well AND can take that year and hit the FA market in 2018.

Sheard - I don't think you are going to have pay much for Sheard. Off of this season who is going to pay him $7MM/yr for that kind of production. If we don't get him back for less, I think he's gone period.

Long- He was thinking of packing it in last season. I'd be surprised he doesn't just take his ring and the memories of this year and say sayonara. But if the fire still burns I think the Pats will want him back with just a small raise for another year.

Mingo - I'd like him back. He's still long with great speed. I'd try to sign him to a STer's deal with incentives if he can break into the regular D and base it on snaps.

Van Noy - I'm not sure what to do about him and I'm tired of writing this thread

 

[skinnydog]

I wouldn't do that. The talent on the defensive side of the ball is just too good to pass up on it IMO. The OL-prospects are all very suspect.

I think it depend on the hypothetical Jimmy trade. It the pats end up with a mid-first rounder the defensive talent will be too good to pass up.

 

[mosslost]

It certainly seems to be well overdue for BB..

Does the Super Bowl win make it harder or easier to sigh our UFAs? We have key UFAs especially on defense. (Hightower, Butler, Sheard, Ryan) Also Bennett on offense. Some of the guys already have two rings so they may bail for the biggest money who knows. I just don't want to see Hightower on Denver or Pittsburg or even the Colts.

 

[mosi's man]

I wonder whether they'll try moving Mason to center and then slide Tre' Jackson in at right guard. At the time of his draft, many scouts considered Mason's best position as a future center. Andrews would be a fine backup and Karras could serve as a reserve guard. It would certainly bolster the strength of the interior line, although whether Mason can make all the calls is another matter. As always, Scar will know best.

 

[skinnydog]

c. Bennett is also be interesting. He's a 30 year old TE who had a productive year on a great team, so who is going to pay this guy over $8MM/yr on a long term deal (3-4 yr deal). He cost $5MM this season. I'd set his value at around $7MM on a 3 year deal with half guaranteed) Then he can test his theory that someone will overpay him, and come back to him when he finds out the truth. He'd be great WITH Gronk in the offense, and great Gronk insurance when he isn't.

I thought the pats already offered Bennet about 7per year and he turned it down.

 

[skinnydog]

Some basic thoughts:

1. I think these are the major FA's we have on the team

Harmon
Ryan
Bennett
Branch
Blount
Hightower
Butler
Vollmer
Floyd
Sheard
Long
Mingo?
Van Noy?

2. We have 60-70MM in cap space (3rd highest # in the league), and no longer have to resign Collins and CJones. Plus with a few selected cuts we can add even more. So we really can sign all these guys back and still have room left over to still be a player in FA. And we know we won't be signing all of them back.

3. For everyone we don't sign we should have enough cap space to go into FA and sign a resonably decent replacement.

4. This draft will be very deep in the positions we could possibly need help.

5. We will add either mid round first rounder or higher if the bidding war for Garapolo goes as I see it, OR a high 2nd rounder this year and a first next year. If you can't do better than that, then I might keep him. because this team would still be a SB contender with either Brady or JG (though Brady makes our chances better)

6. Lets go down the list"
a. Harmon - He's currently the #3 Safety who's got more value to us than other teams quite frankly. I'm not sure how much he's worth to another team he had an 1.8MM cap hit this year. I might go as high as $3.2MM per year on a 3-4 year deal to keep him. Or could Ebner be ready to get time as the #3 S next year, or what about Richardson.

b. Ryan. There is no way Ryan gets a 10MM/yr contract, but it could be in the area, and it is certainly going to be a lot more than the $1.8 he cost this year. I'm thinking S7-9MM/yr. Again I see him being more valuable in our system than on another team. This will be the most interesting to watch

c. Bennett is also be interesting. He's a 30 year old TE who had a productive year on a great team, so who is going to pay this guy over $8MM/yr on a long term deal (3-4 yr deal). He cost $5MM this season. I'd set his value at around $7MM on a 3 year deal with half guaranteed) Then he can test his theory that someone will overpay him, and come back to him when he finds out the truth. He'd be great WITH Gronk in the offense, and great Gronk insurance when he isn't.

d. Branch - We paid Branch $2.7MM to be one of the best and most reliable DT's in the league. He certainly deserves a raise. But God the guy is 32 now at a position where players in their 30's age fast. I'd pay him a bit more on a one year deal than on a multi year deal. He's another one of those great teammates and gets it, despite being a reported serial dancer. I would reward him with a one year deal up to $4MM

e. Blount - This is hard one for me. He's been good for us and carried a heavy load for us during the first part of the season. 18 TD's and over 1100 yds is a good year for any RB. He's not an elite guy, but a great value at $1MM/year. He too deserves a raise, and I'd give him one up to $2MM/yr. BTW - my lasting memory of Blount was that he was the first player to go to Brady while he was being surrounded by those mediot parasites. They all clearly love him. Cutting him when he isn't making much would send a bad message to the lockerroom.

f. Hightower - He's another guy I think has more value to the Pats than anyother team. He's a great leader, a great communicator. He's the kind of player who isn't going to have great stats, but makes all the players around him better. You paid McCourty and he's been worth it. You pay Hightower too, maybe not at the top of the market, but damned close.

g. Butler - Contrary to what Felger would like you to believe, Butler is NOT going to get paid less than million next year. With a first round tender IIRC he'll get around $5MM as a RFA and be free next year. It's not top end CB money, but it isn't just pocket change either. In an ideal world they's work out some kind of short term deal where Malcom can make more the the $5MM but less than market value. Like a bridge deal to FA. No one fits the patriot way better than Malcolm. Tough dependable, and severely competitive. No question he will be here next year. Only the price is in question. Also this is one of those sending the right message to the locker room. And you don't want to resign Ryan and have him making a lot more than Butler. That WOULD be a problem.

h. Volmer - I read where Volmer was looking as skinny as Matt Light. I think he's done, and Cannon's success this year would mean he'd likely be back up. I don't think he'd come back for back up money. Not with his back history.

i. Floyd- If he wants to come back I'd give him a deal non-guaranteed deal or guarantee just a million or so, and give him insentives that can raise that up to $7MM (what he got this year) if he plays at a #1 WR level. Then at THAT point he's a rehabbed FA with a Pats seal of approval, or if not he's can be cut at a low cost. Good for us, because we get a remarkable talent for at least a year, and good for him because he can rehab a badly torn rep and make decent money if he plays well AND can take that year and hit the FA market in 2018.

Sheard - I don't think you are going to have pay much for Sheard. Off of this season who is going to pay him $7MM/yr for that kind of production. If we don't get him back for less, I think he's gone period.

Long- He was thinking of packing it in last season. I'd be surprised he doesn't just take his ring and the memories of this year and say sayonara. But if the fire still burns I think the Pats will want him back with just a small raise for another year.

Mingo - I'd like him back. He's still long with great speed. I'd try to sign him to a STer's deal with incentives if he can break into the regular D and base it on snaps.

Van Noy - I'm not sure what to do about him and I'm tired of writing this thread

You may be tired, but I'm sure most enjoyed the commentary. Great points. TKS

 

[skinnydog]

I wonder whether they'll try moving Mason to center and then slide Tre' Jackson in at right guard. At the time of his draft, many scouts considered Mason's best position as a future center. Andrews would be a fine backup and Karras could serve as a reserve guard. It would certainly bolster the strength of the interior line, although whether Mason can make all the calls is another matter. As always, Scar will know best.

Does anyone know who the back up center was this year? If Andrews had gone down would Mason have slid in or was it karras?

 

[mosi's man]

Additionally, I doubt the Pats deal Jimmy G before free agency but instead wait until the draft to maximize his trade value. Let SF, Chi, the Browns, etc. sweat/fight it out until the final hour. The Pats view player acquisition as a year long process and, I think, won't find it necessary to solve every issue prior to or during free agency.